Close


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: paddle tire

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    5,408
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    83
    Ride to a sand dune. Turn your motor off. Now push the bike up the dune.





    Ride to a nearby road. Turn your motor off. Push the bike down the road.

    Which one makes you work harder? If neither, I guess traction is traction, lol.




  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    4,710
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    62
    Right.....sand has much more rolling resistance than pavement. It's not the paddle tire that makes the bike work harder it's pushing the front tire through the sand.



    m y   s i g n a t u r e:


    Location: Erie, Pennsylvania

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    5,408
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    83
    Bottom line is you will be on the gas harder, use more power and generate more heat riding deep sand than any other type of riding.

    There's a reason you find mopeds and scooters on the road and not in the deep sand. They simply don't have enough power for the sand.

    Does a 21 year old KDX have enough power to be fun and reliable pulling an 8 paddle tire in the sand?

    I think so (crosses fingers), but if it were my bike, here is what I'd do:

    1) Make sure the cooling system is working properly
    2) Mix more oil than usual to improve lubrication, maybe go 24:1, or even 18:1 or 16:1.
    3) Go at least one step richer on the main jet
    4) Drop the clip to one lower groove on the needle
    5) Consider putting in a spark plug one step colder than you run for the trail.

    After 1/2 tank of fuel, if it shows no sign of overheating or straining too hard, go back to your stock plug heat range and consider putting the needle clip back to its original position.

    All this costs you is the price of a new main jet and spark plug and few $ in oil, but you have added a big cushion in terms of protection from excess heat and poor lubrication.

    Oh, and bring lots of gas. You'll need it. Plan on hitting reserve in about 1/2 the miles and time it would take on the trail.




  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    417
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by mudpack
    If a paddle tire in sand will harm the KDX, then riding fast on asphalt will also. Traction is traction....regardless of the surface.
    If paddle tires in sand killed motors, Glamis would be littered with smoking shards of aluminum and steel.
    I did not say "paddle tires in sand killed motors", I was talking specifically about the KDX200. I have ridden many bikes in deep soft sand and have found that the KDX200 unless ridden 'balls to the wall', 'hard on the stopper', flat knacker', 'WFO' has a hard time doing the work at any decent speed. The key words here are "Deep Soft Sand", and unless your bike has power to spare which the KDX200 does not, then it'll be VERY VERY hard work on the motor. Now, I appreciate that what we expect in regard to performance in the sand will differ depending on how we ride, but as a general rule I'd say she's under powered. Be kind to the bike and you'll still have a lot of fun, but expect it to go hard all day and I think that's where you may have a problem. In regard to "traction is traction", simply not so. Even a quick thought about the contact patch difference between deep soft sand and a road surface should alert you to that. (On re-reading that it sounded a bit harsh Mudpack, I didn't mean it to be offensive).



    m y   s i g n a t u r e:


    "Shoot first, ask questions later."
    Go to my KDX200 resource page by clicking here.
    Location: Auckland, New Zealand

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    the dunes im going it is not like the oregon dunes. its sand mixed with ash, dirt, gravel. its the moses lake sand dunes. i been there once before without a paddle tire it did good when it got up to 20mph. it was spining out alot that is why i want a paddle tire also to go faster




  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    21
    Both sides of the argument "seem" correct...

    That sand has greater rolling resistance than pavement of course is true, and the motor will use more power to move the bike thru sand.

    That the motor will suffer and fail with a paddle tire in sand may also be true, depending...

    The truth is, you can blow up your kdx in sand with a normal knobby as well because your traction will be so low and your rolling resistance so high that you'll constantly need to be turning very high rpm to get into the rpm range to need to spin the tire fast enough to produce enough thrust to gain enough speed to get on top of the sand... Etc etc... Riding fast in sand is all about developing enough speed to become stable and efficient to get over the threshold beyond where your front tire is plowing.

    Because a normal knobby rear has little tracrion on sand it is akways spinning madly and the engine screaming often to build up that thrust. Very high rpm + low speed and airflow = bad for motor

    On the flip side, a six paddle rear (8 is almost too many even for a 220) has far more traction and thrust develops much faster with lower rpm, however, because the rear spins in the sand so much less than a knobby, you can never get out of the lower gears very fast and the "window" for optimal speed vs rpm vs gear is very very narrow... You'll spend far more time and effort hunting for that necessary perfect situation with a paddle whereas a much wider range of rpm, gear, speed and traction will "work" with a knobby...

    The best solution? Leave the paddles to the quads and 4stroke bikes, and use a soft terrain or sand knobby... Michelin S series rear work great! Very soft terrain knobbies are essentially low profile paddle tires with 50 paddles the knobbies are arranged in "walls" rather than staggered like a harder terrain knobby. The rear will spin up to allow you to get into an rpm band early while having enough thrust to get the bike up to speed where it starts to float over the sand in a gear that allows you to build up enough speed efficiently to become stable, all with adequate airflow generated for cooling to keep the motor happy.

    This description above is not based on any scientific theorizing, but just on many hours at Pismo Beach with different kinds of rear tires on an 04 KDX 220

    Sand is fun! Sea water corrosion is not!




  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    13
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    hey guys thanks for the help. i got back from the dunes 2 weeks ago. i had a great time my kdx did awesome. it got up to about 45 mph it did not over heat. got stuck 3 times going up steep hills. fouled the spark pulg, but it did great. i was very happy with it. next time i will have the 13/50 sprocket ratio




Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Members who have read this thread: 0

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •