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Do I need a louder more powerful pipe?

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Posted by: Jackpiner57

I don't know if I will get in trouble for posting this, but I think all riders should read it. I copied this from The Blue Ribbon Coalition website. Read the whole thing.



QUIET PLEASE! -- TWO BIKERS TELL A TALE OF SOUND
by Charlie Williams & Bill Uhl



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I was up on a hill the other day and ran into a friend of mine, Billy Uhl, a leader in our sport of dirt biking. Billy was the top American finisher at the 1973 ISDT, as well as a 9-year vet at 6-Days' competitions.

These days, Billy lives in a quiet mountain setting from which he does trail construction and maintenance. Billy has watched our sport from behind the scenes for many years, so if we are smart, we will listen when he speaks.

When I ran into Billy, I was out riding for fun and looking for new subjects to write about. Billy had a subject for me - noise and sound. He works on the trails up here in Idaho. He'll ride his old bike up a hill, park it, then cut and dig trails all day long. Billy loves his "office." He had heard me coming, and I have a quiet bike. It's a 250 two-stroke with a good silencer, so it's never revved up on the pipe. It's stealthily quiet, yet he had heard me for the last couple of minutes.

As we talked, I mumbled along about this and that, only to have him turn his head to say "Huh?" Billy can't hear well out of his left ear. He blames it on years of chain saw and bike use without earplugs.

Here is a guy who loves dirt bikes and riding, deaf in one ear, but he still noticed the sound of my reasonably quiet bike. At one point in our visit, he perked up like Radar on M*A*S*H, saying "Jet plane. You can hear them for two and a half minutes."

"I never paid any attention."

"Exactly," replied Billy. "You can hear a plane for two and a half minutes, but people are used to them and don't pay any attention. So they block them out, just like you've done."

I perked up with my new-found sound sensitivity. "Dirt bike, four-stroke."

As the rider came closer to our side of the small valley, I looked at Billy with surprise. The bike we had been listening to was now within a couple of minutes of us, but it appeared to have given birth to two other bikes that we could now hear softly purring. The entire journey across the valley had taken about ten minutes, but we only heard one bike until the last two minutes.

"This is exactly the point," Billy clarified. "Our sound is normally not audible as far away or as long as that of the jet plane. Because traditionally, motorcyclists stay in the acceptable range of sound, they're only audible for a short time. In this case, we heard one bike a long way off for a long time, and the other two bikes only a short time."

Three happy trail riders had now rolled up, one with a big-man exhaust. Billy tactfully told the loud rider that we could hear his bike from the time he crested the ridge on the other side of the valley. The guy just shook his head while saying something about the bike needing to breathe, so he had opened up the silencer.

Now, I was puzzled and made a caustic comment. "Why do they call it a silencer if it makes more noise?"

The guy explained that he needed the louder exhaust to get the most power out of the 450, and my sarcasm again rode to the surface. So I asked, "Are you a famous racer?"

"Well no."

"Are you in a big race right now?"

"No," he replied sheepishly.

"Then why do you need to disturb everyone for a quarter of a mile around just so you can trail ride?"

"Because I like the power." He was getting defensive now, but I was filled with questions.

"Can you actually use the power? Couldn't Larry Roseler beat you on an 80cc bike? Haven't you noticed that one of your buddies was in front of you?"

Our conversation soon ended. Billy strapped his chain saw back on his dilapidated Kawasaki. I strapped on my helmet, and the five of us took off. The booming four-stroke was right behind me, or so it seemed because the noise was right on my shoulder. I made some good turns, and soon it felt like I must be getting away from him though it sounded like he was still on my fender.

The five of us rode a few miles before Billy stopped to clear a fallen tree. I rolled up, removed my helmet and started to help. Then the loud bike showed up. We had made our point. It's not the bike or the power; it's the rider.

Bob had been transformed. "I get your point, fellas. I'll put the quiet stock exhaust back on my bike. If a guy in hiking boots riding a tool wagon can outride me, then maybe I don't need the little bit of extra power a noisy exhaust might give me."

His friends were beaming smiles. We all laughed, then Bob and his companions rode off. Billy and I listened to Bob's loud bike for quite a while. He was being light on the throttle now, trying to slip away without making any more noise than he had to.

We sat on a log, overlooking the mountains of Idaho. You could see for hundreds of miles in all directions. Huge pine trees and rocky crags towered above us. Streams cut their way through valley floors. Birds chirped and chipmunks skittered about. Mountain lions and wolves live there too, not to mention elk and deer and all the other friendly woodland creatures. A 24-inch wide motorcycle trail snaked its way along, following old miners' routes that had followed the traces of Indians who had followed animal trails.

You get the picture? There is a tiny ribbon of trail zigzagging around. Everyone is happy until someone puts a loud bike on it. Suddenly, noise can be heard for about a quarter of a mile to the north and south -- a half-mile-wide corridor of unnecessary noise is created just so one loud biker can use 24 inches of trail! (Note: Sound travels different distances as terrain changes. We are using the worst case scenario - a ridge trail.)

Billy said, "They keep coming after us. Sound will be the next issue."

"They who?" I jerked around and looked over my shoulder looking for bears, wolves, or mountain lions.

"The government is coming. When they outlawed two-cycle engines, they thought that would close us out or at least make it more difficult. So factories started building better four-stroke motors, and our sport struggles on."

"Yeah, and the sound a four-stroke makes carries a lot differently than a two stroke." I said trying to stay in the conversation.

"Yes, the four-stroke's sound carries differently. But anymore, the snowmobile guys are running straight expansion chambers and can be heard from a mile away. That's a two-mile corridor of noise. I love snowmobiling and ride them all the time, but it's annoying to listen to them all day while I'm at home."

"They have three cylinders - that's 140 to 160 HP! How much more power do they think they need?"

"They don't need more power. It's just like the bikes. It's not the power - it's the rider and the ability to ride well. To the public, any sound that is different from what they are used to is "bad." One loud bike can turn them sour against all riders. It's the same with loud snow machines. Somehow we have to rally the troops and police ourselves."

"If we don't do it, the government will, and I guarantee that we won't like what they do to us. We need to convince the manufactures to stop selling loud exhaust systems. Nobody needs the noise or the hearing loss that emerges from it. We have to get them to sell us good, quiet systems. People just don't realize that trails and tracks are being closed to us because of what's called 'sound pollution.'"

"You know the Speedway guys have gone to quiet exhaust, and they have a new track right in town. Back in Indianapolis, Speedway participants share the parking lot with an exotic dance club, so how much noise are they making?" I asked.

"Hearing loss, land closure, fatigue; these are just a few problems with noise. Sound could be the next battlefield. Did you know they are using money from the Green Sticker program to buy decibel meters? How stupid are we? Are we really going to finance our own demise? If we don't address the sound issue on our own, we will be committing recreational suicide."

I answered, "You know, I went to a desert race the other day. They started in three rows, A, B, and C. The A row was pretty quiet. Most of the four strokes had stock exhaust, and the two cycles didn't stand out as loud. The B row had a couple of loud bikes, but the C row was the noisiest of all three! Most four-strokes had big man exhausts on them, so what we are up against is educating the beginners."

I continued, pretty much rewording what I had just said. It sounded good last time; let's see if I can pass it off as genuine thoughts again. "The expert riders understand that loud exhaust is not good. They know it fatigues them, and the manufacturers understand noise is not good. Manufacturers just build them because the educationally unencumbered buy them, thinking they need the noise. The public hates the sound, and other riders are also annoyed by it. Nobody craves hearing loss, and none of us want more land closures."

Billy continued. "Even on 'closed courses' noise is a problem, if the MX track is bothering neighbors a quarter of a mile away, the government has no other choice but to shut the track down."

"Yeah, they claim the loud pipes are just for closed courses, but they sell them to anyone. The buyers then use them everywhere, not just on closed courses. Just a few moments of noise can sour our potential supporters."

"A closed course?" said Billy. "If the sound travels like it does here in the mountains, then that makes the closed course with a quarter mile radius of angry neighbors. These neighbors don't care whether it is closed course or trail riding. All they know is bikes create sound. They don't like it, and they are going to act against us. Neighbors are going to call the cops; the cops call a meeting; the public gets organized; they come after us, and I don't blame them one bit. We have a responsibility to clean up our act."

I went on, "You know, we had the noise issue going pretty good once the two cycles became water cooled and good repackable silencers became practical. It's only been in the last few years, when the so-called racing four-stroke came back on the scene that noise became an issue again. Most of the four strokes are quiet from the factory. It's the after-market people who are feeding this problem. How do we convince them to stop selling the loud ones and focus on building good quiet ones? If they only would, the problem would solve itself in time. All the loud bikes would soon become outdated and pushed to the barn."

Billy continued, "I'm afraid the ignorant will always want more noise. They relate noise to speed, which is so wrong. To really ride well, you need to be one with the bike. You need to feel the RPM; you need to feel the ground through the tires and the pegs. If the bike is deafening you, how can you feel these things?"

Billy went on, "Even if we get the major manufactures to quit making loud pipes, ignorant companies will start building loud pipes. We need to make sure everyone knows just how uncool it is to be noisy. Michael Lafferty's 450 racer is quiet, so why does Joe Schmoe think more sound means more power. If Michael doesn't need it, why does the C class?"

Billy's passion for riding and the trails was so evident. "We've really got to make everyone conscious of this problem because it is threatening all of our rights to ride. We need to change, and we need to change now. If we don't, the government will continue to force change, and we all hate that."

As I gathered my things to leave, I told Billy I would write a story for the magazine. Most of the readers I know are already on the quiet bus, so it's the uninformed that we must reach. We have to counteract the propaganda that more noise means more power. You are of a higher plane of consciousness, and we need your assistance in educating those who are unconsciously creating offensive noise levels.

We need to start by enforcing noise restrictions at all of our races, events, and outings. Enduro guys do a good job, but the Hare Scrambles, MX, and family crowds could do better. The clubs need to change their rules and stand by them. Riders want to ride, so they will follow the rules and buy quiet exhausts.

Manufactures want to sell. If we as riders and clubs demand quiet pipes, they will produce them so they can sell them. We can go after the licensing organizations like the AMA, FIM, etc., and make them change their sound rules. The noise issue is finally one where we can start at the bottom and work our way up. If riders demand quiet, everyone above us will fall in line.

When I got back to the trailer home, I did a little research on hearing loss. It turns out the ear canal is filled with tiny hairs that change the mechanical energy of incoming sound waves into nerve messages to the brain. Sustained noise like a bike or a chain saw damages these tiny hairs, causing permanent hearing loss. Ear plugs are not always the cure, because some sounds travel right through the skull and cause damage. There is not enough research, but I'd bet a noisy four-stroke bores right through the skull. It does mine.

When I shared this article with Billy, he made one last comment. Apparently, "Einstein once said, 'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.' Sound does not have to become loud, annoying noise." Billy has a passionate plea, "Noise has to change to a sound level that is acceptable, so go forth and ride quietly."

My advice is to do something now! Write the manufactures, the after-market people and the race organizations to demand quiet pipes. Contact the clubs and demand quiet races, repack your own silencer, and educate your friends and family. Lead by example because our future depends on our making a difference. Like Billy said, if we wait for the government to do it for us, we will not like what they do.

--© 2004 Charlie Williams & Bill Uhl. For comments or questions on this article, the authors may be reached through the BlueRibbon Coalition: 4555 Burley Drive, Suite A, Pocatello, ID 83202. Phone: 208-237-1008, Fax: 208 237-9424. Bill Uhl, Senior Instructor, OHV


Posted by: tax cutter

Thank you for posting that.


Posted by: Studboy

Excellent article.


Posted by: rickyd

Great reading!! Anybody here ever wear earplugs under their helmet while riding?? I just found out last week i have significant hearing loss in my left ear..
Rick


Posted by: G. Gearloose

Amen, no trouble here!


Posted by: bocephous

Quote:
Anybody here ever wear earplugs under their helmet while riding??


Both on the street and in the dirt. Wind noise (street riding) has been shown to cause significant hearing loss.


Posted by: Green Hornet

Great article.I find the loud 4strokes very distracting when riding, due to the way sound travels (Lower frequency travels further). During my first H/S in May, I was constantly looking over my shoulder or pulling over due to the gunnery pipes on some of the 4strokers. To my amazment they were not even close, just sounded like they were on my rear fender. Nothing against a good pipe, but the Loud = Power scene is a bunch of BULL.


Posted by: YZ165

Good Read.


Posted by: Jackpiner57

This article has made me think about my own pipe/silencer combo.

I use a ProCircuit Platinum for my 2002 KDX200. It is a thinwall rev type pipe. I use the stock KDX muffler.

The sound out the back is not too bad, but it isn't very quiet either. Because it is thinwall, it emanates sound from the the pipe itself . Overall, it is too loud! Well, unless I let off the throttle and fourstroke it past the houses (which I do).

I am buying the FMF Gnarly Desert which is thicker to see if it improves the problem.

By the way, my bike is not lacking for power with the stock muffler on it. And if I was concerned about the extra weight I could always reduce my intake of beer and burgers .


Posted by: nrvs-nelly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackpiner57

By the way, my bike is not lacking for power with the stock muffler on it. And if I was concerned about the extra weight I could always reduce my intake of beer and burgers .
Now that's a good point! I love when someone says I can take off 2 lbs of weight by changing to hi perf. parts. Yup good idea. spend $600 on those parts when all they need to do is diet!
Great article. Reminds of a guy who rides with us periodically. XR250 with Big Gun exhaust opened up. You can hear him for miles.


Posted by: mafols

I've been giving quite a bit of thought along these lines recently. I've refused to put an aftermarket pipe on my last two street bikes because of the noise. I live 1 mile from an Interstate highway and am continually amazed at how easily I can hear bikes with loud pipes passing by. Frankly...I LIKE my bike quiet....the wind is loud enough, I wear ear plugs because of it. I too have significant hearing loss.
As for the dirt...my 04' CRF250X is still equiped with the factory exhaust, but uncorked ( the "Closed Coarse" recommendations) and my 96' XR is waaaay loud with an aftermarket setup. I've been considering a change of noise level. Any one have recommendation on good performance pipes that are quiet? The cork in the CRFX really holds the bike back. I know that FMF makes their Q series but I really haven't heard any good reports on their performance.

Thanks for the article


Posted by: CaptainObvious

I spent a lot of money on quiet pipes for both my 4-stroke YZ and my street bike this spring. Now, my son's KX65 is louder than my YZF...he's next. I think they are the best mods I have ever invested in because now I can enjoy my bikes knowing that I'm not disturbing others.

Land use issues are directly connected to the noise issue. Anyone who thinks differently probably has a loud exhaust.


Posted by: mafols

Capt. O....what did you put on the YZF ?


Posted by: glwilliams58

Captain O again,

What are you planning to do with for the KX65. My son's is way too loud for the neighbors and we have 10 acre lots.

Thanks.

gw


Posted by: KTM Mike

Hey Mods - this one should be put up as a "sticky" in every single forum we have on DRN!

I was camping with the (extended ) family this weekend. A few camp sites away was some guys with a ratted out old CR250 - end cap totally off the silencer - nothing inside! I was ticked right off - and I love bikes. My in-laws and various others there ALL commented about how loud that bike was, some not knowing I was a off roader - voiced the stereo typicaly "nasty dirt bikers" complaint and several said they should call the DNR etc etc. On top of this the idiots were miles and miles away from the nearest legal ORV trail. Eventually (gee how did that happen?) the DNR did show up and ticket them. Riding stopped - peace and quite returned!

Someone asked about earplugs. I used to do tons of street riding (on a bike with OEM exhaust) - long story short - I have a slight hearing loss in one ear. Keep in mind, this took place over 250,000 miles of street riding though. Once i realized I did have the hearing loss, I started riding with ear plugs on the street. Never a problem with hearing what I NEEDED to. Wind noise was a large factor and this was with a top shelf Arai helmet. Ironically, for some odd reason, I dont wear plugs off road. Perhaps I need to reconsider. The relatively lower speeds off road do reduce wind noise however. A risk with ear plugs might be that we would not be aware of how loud we are.

I to find the 4 strokes behind me always sound like they are right on me - when i look behind - nothin there!

I will likely tick off some Hardley Ableson riders with this next comment - but I find the loud Harely's on the street very annoying - and I think they are contributing to more motorcycle noise awareness of the general non riding public (they see more bikes on the street generally than off road is my guess). So every day they put up with a truely loud Harley blasting past their house, so when they see/hear what is actually a fairly quiet off road bike - they immediately are hyper sensitive to the sound level - regardless of what it actually is.

For us to get this noise issue behind us, we do need to contact the manufactures - and we need to convince our riding brothers that more sound does not necessarily = going faster, or more power.

I read an article some years ago dyno testing a Harley with typical "gutted baffles" and various after market pipes compared to stock. Of the 3 or 4 combos tested, only one yeilded any worth while power change - and in fact all the others actually decreased horsepower in the useable RPM range!


Here in MI to be legal off road you need 94db or less. In a tech inspection for a race last summer my 2000 KTM 300 EXC was sound tested - came in at 88.4 db! (I had just repacked the silencer). My 05 250Exc is every bit as quiet
Off my soap box - time to ride my KTM with OEM ultra quite exhaust!


Posted by: gwcrim

I agree. This is too good a read to hide in the KDX Forum.


Posted by: CaptainObvious

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafols
Capt. O....what did you put on the YZF ?


An FMF Q for the YZF. It's quieter than the stock pipe and MUCH quieter than the FMF Powercore it had on it. The Q really takes the "bark" out of the exhaust tone. It did reduce the top end power somewhat (via the seat of the pants dyno) but I picked up some low end power. I'm happy to trade the changes in power for the noise reduction. My YZ has a full-on Eric Gorr 262 kit, so it is not wanting for power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glwilliams58
What are you planning to do with for the KX65


We bought the bike used, and it came with an FMF silencer on it. FMF doesn't make a Q for this bike. I might try to locate a stock silencer on "the auction site". In the mean time, I will continue to repack the silencer with a quality packing material.


Posted by: KTM Mike

one other quick comment about use of earplugs. On the street I often did very long iron butt type days riding. I found it dramatically less fatiguing to ride with ear plugs than without. The constant wind noise etc just seems to mentally fatigue you. I suspect this would hold true off road. (i cant say I have ever felt the need for it off road however - physical fatigue sets in way sooner for me!)


Posted by: Green Hornet

"Some not knowing I was a off roader - voiced the stereo typicaly "nasty dirt bikers" complaint and several said they should call the DNR etc etc."

Question-Who and what is the DNR????


Posted by: KTM Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Hornet
"Some not knowing I was a off roader - voiced the stereo typicaly "nasty dirt bikers" complaint and several said they should call the DNR etc etc."

Question-Who and what is the DNR????


Oops - I guess non Michiganders would be confused by that! Department of Natural Resources - those guys that like to close down riding areas


Posted by: Green Hornet

Oh, Ok, Tree Huggers w/a Badge


Posted by: mafols

[QUOTE=CaptainObvious]An FMF Q for the YZF. It's quieter than the stock pipe and MUCH quieter than the FMF Powercore it had on it. The Q really takes the "bark" out of the exhaust tone. It did reduce the top end power somewhat (via the seat of the pants dyno) but I picked up some low end power. I'm happy to trade the changes in power for the noise reduction. My YZ has a full-on Eric Gorr 262 kit, so it is not wanting for powe


Thanks Gary


Posted by: Ol'89r

Excellent post. This is one of the biggest issues facing all of us.

If they couldn't hear us, they wouldn't even know we were there.

I run stock exhaust systems on ALL of my bikes. Never had too much trouble keeping up. Just turn that little twisty thing on the right side of your handlebar a little harder and leave it on a little longer.

Those that seem to think they need a louder exhaust to go faster are making things much harder for the rest of us. Get a clue while we still have a few places left to ride.


Posted by: jaction125

Great read, I'm gonna post this on some of the street boards I frequent.


Posted by: bikepilot

Great post:thumbup

I can't stand the loud 4-strokes, or 2-strokes with blown out packing for that matter. I've found that for my uses a stock exhausted 2-stroke with a well packed silencer is fairly quiet (I ride MX and trails, no neighbors near by so I don't have to worry too much). I would like to try an FMF Q but don't have the $145 right now As it is I re-pack the stock silencer often and my bike came with a carbon fiber pipe guard (e-line) which also helps lessen the sound, similar to a double walled KDX pipe, but without the weight


Posted by: XNAGEX

Does anyone ,other than myself, find that while wearing earplugs that they can ride faster?I find that while wearing earplugs I push myself harder thus I ride faster.


Posted by: Dirtbike Racer 592

I didnt read all of it To much to read


Posted by: bikepilot

I always wear ear plugs, but never really thought about being faster with them. Certainly more comfortable and better able to hear what the bike is doing (they filter out much more wind noise than engine noise, especailly for street riding IMHO)


Posted by: SpeedyManiac

I just found that my bike was getting really loud. Found that a bolt holding the exhaust flange had gone missing. Picked up a new gasket and bolt, now the bike is really quiet.

I had a good laugh about loud bikes when I was racing my XR200R. This bike was bone stock, complete with snorkel in the airbox and baffle in the exhaust. Only modification was barkbusters and thicker fork oil. I managed to beat a lot of people on a bike that NONE of them could hear coming up on them. Only way they knew I was there was when I yelled to move over or showed them a wheel. I can't stand loud bikes, I'm still trying to think of ways to quiet my Gasser, and it's pretty darn quiet already.


Posted by: Dirty Di

My advice is to do something now! Write the manufactures, the after-market people and the race organizations to demand quiet pipes. Contact the clubs and demand quiet races, repack your own silencer, and educate your friends and family. Lead by example because our future depends on our making a difference. Like Billy said, if we wait for the government to do it for us, we will not like what they do.

--© 2004 Charlie Williams & Bill Uhl. For comments or questions on this article, the authors may be reached through the BlueRibbon Coalition: 4555 Burley Drive, Suite A, Pocatello, ID 83202. Phone: 208-237-1008, Fax: 208 237-9424. Bill Uhl, Senior Instructor, OHV[/QUOTE]


My husband says there is a difference between loud obnoxious pipes and a sweet sounding louder exhaust and I agree with him. I know there are bikes that are really loud and those I could see putting pressure on but eliminating all exhaust systems because they make more noise than a vacuum cleaner is crazy. Why don't we just kick back and plant ourselves on the front porch with a cold one. I guess I don't understand anyone that would go from one extreme to the other just to say they made a difference. My bikes all sound nice and yeah, they're louder but not near as loud as some. If you want quiet, buy a sound proof booth and isolate yourself from reality because there are many things out there I consider much louder than bikes.

Dirty Di


Posted by: ScottS

read this guys. It works !

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/sh...ghlight=snorkel


Posted by: KTM Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Di
My husband says there is a difference between loud obnoxious pipes and a sweet sounding louder exhaust and I agree with him.

Dirty Di


I too can appreciate the sound of a well tuned, "sweet sounding" bike (or car, truck etc.) but if doing so leads to loss of riding areas - it is NOT worth it.

"Loud" and "Quiet" and "Sweet sounding" are relative terms. What is "sweet sounding" to you and I may be obnoxious to someone else. Somewhere there is a point where the sound level of anything crosses a line of what is or is not reasonable. Trouble is, that point varies from person to person.

Sorry to flame on you Di - but I just gotta tell you that to essentially suggest "go loud or go sit in a sound proof booth" is just flat out irresponsible - that is what i expect from a 17 year old kid out to impress his buddy's! What is important to me is that I CAN RIDE - not that i CAN be loud!

ScottS - I to have one of those snorkles (I just added my feedback on it to the thread you posted a link to). good product!


Posted by: Dirty Di

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM Mike
I too can appreciate the sound of a well tuned, "sweet sounding" bike (or car, truck etc.) but if doing so leads to loss of riding areas - it is NOT worth it.

"Loud" and "Quiet" and "Sweet sounding" are relative terms. What is "sweet sounding" to you and I may be obnoxious to someone else. Somewhere there is a point where the sound level of anything crosses a line of what is or is not reasonable. Trouble is, that point varies from person to person.

Sorry to flame on you Di - but I just gotta tell you that to essentially suggest "go loud or go sit in a sound proof booth" is just flat out irresponsible - that is what i expect from a 17 year old kid out to impress his buddy's! What is important to me is that I CAN RIDE - not that i CAN be loud!

ScottS - I to have one of those snorkles (I just added my feedback on it to the thread you posted a link to). good product!


I doubt there will ever come a time when you can't ride Mike and while they may be taking some areas, it really hasn't effected my family because there is a whole lot of desert out west. If I wanted a bike that sounded like a Hoover I would have purchased one but I didn't. Now, I have seen or heard of areas being closed because of environmental issues but I have yet to hear of an area that was closed due to sound. There may be some private closed course that got closed because of issues with neighbors but an open public area like BLM land or a forest, please tell me where sound alone has been the mitigating factor which closed the area to riding. Here in California we are limited to 96dbA for dirt bikes and whether you know it or not, that's loud by any reasonable persons standards. So, when they can't handle 96, does it go down to 82dbA like streetbikes and cages and if that's not acceptable do they cut it even more. Maybe we should just give up and buy electric scooters then the environmental community would be happy as would the old fart that gets his/her hearing aid pegged when a legal 96dbA bike rides by. So, at 96dbA you CAN STILL RIDE AND BE LOUD TOO........

Dirty Di


Posted by: KTM Mike

Di - I sure hope I wont be impacted by loss of riding areas due to noise - so just to be safe I wont take that risk. Right now there is an issue playing out locally (Northern Michigan) that would have (potentially) OPENED up access that was shot down in part due to NOISE concerns! So noise has impacted me and my family's riding rights. (actually an expansion of a priviledge). Good for you that you and your family have not been impacted however.

You do acknowledge the legal limit of 96 dbAas being "loud" - your prior posts seemed to suggest you should be able to be LOUDER than that even. (you mentioned aftermarket loud pipes either in this post or another similar thread). Your last post seems to suggest that you are coming in at or below that limit. I am very happy to "hear" that! (pun intended!). Here in Michigan it is 94 dbA - a bit quieter. As it stands today, these both are what have been defined as that invisible "line". So I think we all need to try to work within those limits. If we do work within them, I think we reduce the chance of someone taking issue and pushing the limit lower. I would think It is the bikes ABOVE that limit (say a 102 dbA bike) that really push people to want the limit lowered!


Posted by: Dirty Di

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM Mike
Di - I sure hope I wont be impacted by loss of riding areas due to noise - so just to be safe I wont take that risk. Right now there is an issue playing out locally (Northern Michigan) that would have (potentially) OPENED up access that was shot down in part due to NOISE concerns! So noise has impacted me and my family's riding rights. (actually an expansion of a priviledge). Good for you that you and your family have not been impacted however.

You do acknowledge the legal limit of 96 dbAas being "loud" - your prior posts seemed to suggest you should be able to be LOUDER than that even. (you mentioned aftermarket loud pipes either in this post or another similar thread). Your last post seems to suggest that you are coming in at or below that limit. I am very happy to "hear" that! (pun intended!). Here in Michigan it is 94 dbA - a bit quieter. As it stands today, these both are what have been defined as that invisible "line". So I think we all need to try to work within those limits. If we do work within them, I think we reduce the chance of someone taking issue and pushing the limit lower. I would think It is the bikes ABOVE that limit (say a 102 dbA bike) that really push people to want the limit lowered!


Mike, I can't speak for Michigan and I have had to ask a few questions before I got to my present view but lets try this. The test they use here has this little meter that sticks out from the side of the pipe and then they use another meter to know what rpm the bike is at. The problem is that the sound level where the bike is tested is not reflective of the sound the bike is actually capable of producing. My husbands Harley will make the 96 while he is riding and off the throttle cruising as will his KTM while it is just sitting there doing the test. However, neither bike will make it when he is on the pipe. The same holds true for my R6 and the DRZ. While I am just cruising they can all be pretty decent but on the pipe they can peg the meter. So, all do pass the limit but not in reality. If your bike is limited to 94dbA that's good but what is it really capable of. My point is this, noise is the responsibility of the rider and they alone control it so they can also choose an appropriate spot to be noisey rather than doing so right next to a campground or public place that is not pro riding.

This reminds me of people complaining about jets at airports and trains. Problem is they, the jets and trains, were there first and we were riding in many of the areas before some idiot moved in and wanted to change it all for their selfish pleasure.

Dirty Di


Posted by: motometal

regarding your last paragraph, it doesn't really matter if the complainers are right or wrong. We are the minority. The majority rules, right or wrong. To preserve our riding areas, our bikes need to be on average quiter than they are now. We know what needs to be done, let's do it!

I have started to approach and talk with riders at our local park that have loud exhaust. Some are jerks, but surprisingly, most are very polite and say something to the effect of "I never really thought about it that way". Just talking to people like that, we can make a difference.

Heck, i'm a motorcyclist and I will admit I don't like the fact that some days I can hear bikes from my house and the riding park is over three miles away! There is no reason that I should be able to/have to hear them, they can have fun without making that much noise.


Posted by: 12voltguy

great read & I run the quitest pipe on my cr250 96db fmf turbine core 2, at races they see that & put the sound meter away and wave me through tech


but what did he mean " when they outlawed 2 strokes" you can still buy a new cr250......... have I missed something?


Posted by: smasheromalley

Wow great read. I have never for the life of me understood why people thought loud ****ty sounding exhaust was cool.


Posted by: cr80rRipper

now that im reading this article im concerned myself, about 2 or 3 times a month ill take the silence out of my stock muffler and ride the trails near my house. I usally start the bike up in my drive way and w/o the stock silencer it sounds lound but when i look to see how the people out side reacted to it and they dont even realized it happend. So my question is it ok for me once in a while to ride w/o the silencer? Because honestly is it me or does the deffining(sp) sound of a lawn mower dorf the sound of an un corked tt-r90?


Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:
So my question is it ok for me once in a while to ride w/o the silencer?

Why?


Posted by: little Loopie

AWESOME READ

Growing up as a child my fathers main 'tick' about me owning a dirtbike was the noise issue. Even though he loved the outdoors, he didn't want to take me out with him to enjoy the outdoors and have me ripping up his peace and quiet scenic time on my DB. Kinda sucked for me as a young lad, but I understood his point. We'd be out wheeling/hunting or something and hear dirtbike's rip around un-seen for hours. The first bike he let me own was a KDX because they were the quietest DB he'd ever heard.

I'll never own a load bike because of this, we're not the only ones out there in the forrest either. Even if there is no residential house's near by. In my area, there are TONS of lakes often frequented by people fishing and camping, it's just not worth ruining the noise polution.......I like to take other outdoorsman/women's enjoyment into consideration. Also because of the abuntance of this, I can't just 'put' around these area's, they ARE my riding area's. So I gotta, by my own accord, keep it as quiet as possible.

For every 3db's added the sound pressure double's. So, if people can just take 3db's out of thier exhaust, they will efectively DROP the noise pressure by 1/2!! 3db's ain't much, but it has THAT much effect on whomever DOESN'T want to hear it.


Posted by: Lokair

I have three points of veiw on this. One I was a sound guy for a lot of bands in the 90's, louder is not always better, a good sound will always sound crisp and get through a messy sound. Great bands use lots of power for thier pa's and then run them in the low range. this makes them run cleaner and will make them sound better(IE tune your bike, a ratty sounding bike will get you lots of unwanted attention even if it is quiet enuff for the specs).

Point two, I am a dragracing nut, But I like my 1970 GTO only be load enuff to be smooth running, smooth running for me has better ET's and less manteince. Now one could disagree and say top fuel is loud and they go the 1320 in the ~5 second range. This is true, But I am not John Force and my 13 second timeslips are very competitive for an all pure stock muscle car. Remember this on the trail you are not out to race and if you are racing , a uncorked exhaust should be the last of your worries unless you are (insert in your mind the best riders name here) . Be a better rider, train, learn the skills to make it to the top, 95%rider 5% bike. You all know someone who can take a steel tank 80 and whoop you on your dream machine.

Point three when have you ever known the government to make things better, if they implement a sound restriction on bikes, they will crush alot of rider trails and even open area's. Sound may not even be the reason , but it well could be the excuse.

Extra point, I am Partially deaf in my right ear, Being a bass player i n metal bands since I was 13. And having a drummer to my right side who did not know the meaning of restraint has left me saying "excuse me" to alot of people who are talking to me. Its not the end of the world , but sometimes it makes me look like a fool(missinterpratation of words has had me put my foot in my mouth more than once).
Lok


Posted by: OLDSCHOOL-MUSCLE

Dirty Di you are the only person coming out and expressing opinions different to what most people have been saying here, and I agree with you 100%. I am all for responsible use of loud noises, yada yada, otherwise you encounter problems. The diminishing popularity of two strokes, loss of tracks, etc. The main argument being put forward here is that louder exhausts don't necessarily increase power or make you go faster. This in my opinion is besides the point. Most people just enjoy the sound of a louder exhaust. It's the same as cars, people put exhausts on their cars because they sound better, and I for one think theres no sweeter sound in the world than a loud V8. It's just the sweetest sound in the world, the louder the better IMO. I think it's a bit silly and expecting a lot to tell people to go and buy the quiet exhausts. I understand that there are issues of noise pollution, but if having a louder exhaust satisfies you then you should do it. Compare it to cars, whoever heard of a quiet sports car or musclecar for that matter?


Posted by: AssistSuper

This is an awesome read.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy noise to an extent. I absolutely love the rumble of a loping V8 or a racecar. I enjoy the way the thumpers sound when they take off from the gate and the way the motor sounds while I'm watching a race.

I don't enjoy trying to take a nap and hearing insanely loud vehicles. I don't enjoy trying to BS with someone in the pits and having to yell in their ear because the track is packed with thumpers and I can't hear a thing.

I definately don't like the possibility of the areas I have the priviledge of riding at being shut down due to noise.

It's going to be a pressing issue especially with areas that are growing in population as the rural areas become neighborhoods.

Is my bike loud? Well it depends on how you look at it. I do have an FMF pipe and silencer on my pipe, so it's probably a little louder than stock, but the sound just doesn't carry like the thumpers do.

My next silencer will most likely be a quiet one. Is a little bit of a power sacrifice going to hurt me? No way, I don't race and I can't use my bike to it's full potential anyway. I just like getting out on the track and having a good time. When tracks start getting shut down is what will hurt me.

Would you rather have a quieter bike with more places to ride, or would you rather have a loud 'cool sounding' bike that just sits in your garage because you have no place to ride it?


Posted by: yz450_0506ryder

i tried ear plugs and a mp3 player
i ride better when i hear the motor rev


Posted by: SVTMc-G

Thanks for the article. I believe the idea that it's about the rider. Being a musician, if you can't play...you'll never sound good no matter how sweet your extra gear is. Same idea ith the bikes for sure. Thanks again
Mc-G


Posted by: Racerdude

just a word of advice, dont try to convince a dirt track tuner that sound isnt needed. we have some of the loudest bikes of them all, but its never a problem for us because we race at tracks where cars race, and we are about 1/10th of the noise of a car race. for those of you who want to dispute that, i live 3 miles from the car track where i also race my motorcycle. every friday night i can hear the cars racing from 6-10pm (i love the sound too) i ran home this weekend to get my spare ez-up in the middle of the racing, i couldnt hear one single bike. i have down pipes on my race bikes, sound just isnt an issue for us really in our sport. after all this nonsense i just posted though, i will save face and look responsible. my trail bike will always have a stock exhaust on it, maybe even a q pipe in coming months. i ride a lot at the land between the lakes recreation area, and it has been under the watchful eye for years now. i also have a practice track outside of the city limits where i grew up. when you are in a situation with neighbors and non riders, its not an issue of power, its an issue of you having fun while respecting others that dont share the love of the sport you are involved in. what i have noticed is that since my sport takes place at designated racing facilities where people expect noise, we dont have a problem with our pipes. most motocross tracks are put on an old farm or something of that nature where people dont expect it. it all goes back to the "jet plane" analogy. if you are riding in a place where people dont expect the noise, just ride quiet. and with words from forrest gump, thats all i have to say about that


Posted by: THE J MASTER J

Ok, This Is Like The Best Article Ever. I Was Looking For Loud Pipes And Posted A Forum On Here About Which Loud Pipe To Get And A Guy Kept Deleting Them And I Asked Y He Did That And The Guy Said To Just Read This Article And U'll See Y I Did That. So I Did And Here I Am Writing About How Good Of An Article It Was. I'm Def Not Gettin A Loud Pipe Now, I'm Gonna Spread This Around To Anyone Who Wants A Loud Pipe. Thanks For This Article


Posted by: RedStreak

There's nothin wrong with four strokes! But if you own one you just need a good muffler

JB


Posted by: mxrider76

great article i use stock exhaust when riding on trails behind peoples houses and when being sneaky


Posted by: jefpel_1213

Awesome story, very true


Posted by: Evins

good story


Posted by: motometal

Here's my imaginary breakdown of the folks at 100 houses close enough to hear the bikes at an imaginary riding area:

4- motorcyclists and either like the sound or don't care
1- motorcyclist who is annoyed but won't complain
25- know exactly what the noise is but are just happy we are having fun
3-hearing impaired
2-think it's really bad music next door-probably satanic
20-hear it and know what it is but don't care as long as it isn't too often or during sleeping hours
5-don't like it but won't complain because they feel sorry for us since we can't affoard Harleys and have to "settle" for plastic, foreign dirt bikes
5-hate it and want to complain, but figure we are associated with the H ells Angels and fear they may get whacked as part of new member initiation if they complain
10-dislike it but just aren't the type to do anything about it
5-intend to complain but keep putting it off
19-hate it but figure they don't have the right to complain since it was there before they were
1-is only mildly bothered on occasion, and just moved into the neighborhood (the track was there 20 years before he was) but mentions it to his Thursday afternoon golfing buddy, who happens to be on the council/board/etc.

guess what? because of that "1" guy, we just lost our imaginary riding area!


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

And..........as soon as the "1" complains and makes it public, the other 39 jump in too.


Posted by: Ol'89r

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Di
I doubt there will ever come a time when you can't ride Mike and while they may be taking some areas, it really hasn't effected my family because there is a whole lot of desert out west. If I wanted a bike that sounded like a Hoover I would have purchased one but I didn't. Now, I have seen or heard of areas being closed because of environmental issues but I have yet to hear of an area that was closed due to sound. There may be some private closed course that got closed because of issues with neighbors but an open public area like BLM land or a forest, please tell me where sound alone has been the mitigating factor which closed the area to riding.
Dirty Di



The time has come. How about all of Riverside County Di.

NOW, do you see what that attitude will get us?

Some of you people had better wake up to what is going on while you still have a few places to ride. Dirty Di's attitude is exactly what is costing us our riding areas. And that includes the desert.

And motometal is correct. It only takes one person to talk to the right City or County council member to get an area or entire county shut down. In the case of Riverside county it was a lady who was knocked down by a couple of riders and complained directly to Supervisor Buster. This was after many of us attended multiple boreing meetings with the planning commission over the time span of one year. When it went to the Supervisors, they voted it down.

I would much rather ride a bike that sounds like a Hoover than not ride at all.

And Racerdude.

I'm a long time dirt track tuner and racer and I can name several race tracks that were shut down due to noise.

Sorry, but none of these arguments for loud bikes fly with me. Get a clue before it's too late.

Ol'89r


Posted by: kamchuka

i agree, i work on a few of my friends bikes, which inevitably turns into there friends and so on. i've been in the woods for a shy 30 years now, and nothing bothers me more than these beer drinking gear heads that think noise translates into power.
let me say i enjoy beer and power hell i've been in trouble enjoying them at the same time (not dui) but these guys you see with the pipe off doing wheelies in the parking lot with no helmet and a bottle of jack in one hand piss me off.
i'll be cursed im sure for my words, but whatever.
by the way, i got my first county complaint for my track in my yard last week. my kids ride bone stock small fours, and my rm is set for the woods with the quitest pipe i could find, 93 bds last time. so i'll say, with risk of putting my foot in my mouth, i dont think well ever please em all.


Posted by: weimedog

I can't help but chime in a little.

We hosted two AGP's this year. They are two day events...Bikes day one and Quads day two.

After BOTH events, my neighbors around the area;...even the nay sayers said Saturday was hardly an issue..they hardly heard the bikes. Sunday on the other hand was different. The neighbors objections to our second race that got a little politically ugly were about the Sunday event on the first race. Primarily four stroke quads.

Now understand I have learned to appreciate the Quads and as I wrote in the "Quad Revelation" Post in the "Off Topics" Forum, that the Quad racers especially Chris Borich made a very positive impression on ALL that came in contact with them.

The one thing that might keep us from being able to host another race here was the neighbors complaining about our SUNDAY events..(Not the Saturday events!!) This is Imperical data for anyone who might want to understand what we are up against as a sport.

If I can prove the Quads will be as quiet next year as the Bikes...the Town will welcome our race with open arms. How do I do that???

Suggestions please.

We really enjoyed the Quads.

As I posted in another forum there is an awsome helmut cam of the first Quad Race at out place....(www.thequadbuilder.com)

(weimes aren't "muts" but we can't spell worth a damn!)

My thing is this:

Motorcycles have LESS space to work exhaust issues around. They are narrow and no one wants a burned leg. Quads have SO much more room to work with..why do they have to be louder than the bikes? Scotty Rich and his new fourstroke Kawasaki KX450
blew away the motorcycles and Chris Borich did the same for the Quads...but it was the First race of the day for the Quads ..not the pro race that the neighbors noticed was so loud.

I think sound tests as Enduro's and some Hare Scrambles are required so we can keep our place accessable to Quads and the New Four Stroke Motorcycles.

This is real.


Posted by: Steve210

ha, yea good article. I see your point, noise doesnt mean power, but personally i lik noise. I have a kx 85 right now, and its not bad for noise. I dont see whats wrong with a little bit of noise though. Like my friend and I went together the other day and he has a yamaha 660R and he has a pro-circuit T-4 on it, and i love the sound that thing makes. I see what u mean though how noise is annoying and stuff, and its not good for my hearing, but i love the sound of hearing a fourstroke opened up and hearing it like a mile and a half away. I donno, thats my opinion, i like noise...


Posted by: weimedog

Problem isn't whether you or I like noise, its the local population who has the political power that doesn't...and they can thru legal and political activities take away your places to ride...end of noise.

I am fighting to keep my place as somewhere Quads can race x-country and have fun. If the town decides the QUADS were too noisey...our place is no longer going to able to hold events. End of discussion.

Fortunately the events here were two days...motorcycles saturday quads sunday. The locals LIKED the motorcycles and even the worst nay-sayer has publically stated Saturdays was find..didn't hear anything. It was the Sunday AM races that has me in a bit of a struggle.

You want to have places to play???? Keep it quiet for the surrounding neighbors so the don't have a reason to shut down your play ground.

Some noise from the "backyard"
http://www.thequadbuilder.com/videos/Logan%20Farm.wmv


Posted by: fox rider

I have a YZF and i have a power bomb header on it and a fmf power core 4 on it, i find it way to loud, in terms of power, i dont notice a differnce. My neibors who are 5 acres away say they can hear my bike start up, and say it is really anoying.


Posted by: Solid State

If the bike is marked "for closed course competition only" then riding it anywhere but the track is a bad idea - 2 or 4 stroke. Speaking in general terms, neighbors don't like them no matter what - even with a 'quiet' muffler. Obviously, competition 4 strokes are way more obnoxious - no sane person would argue that.

I swear, just having fun on your own property seems to annoy some people nowadays. I always feel guilty when I fire up my bike for a 10 minute ride around the lot (3 acres) and its a completely stock 2 stroke. I do it very seldomly now. The only prohibition written in the neighborhood covenants is for dirt bikes. Most people hate them. The 4 strokes are the icing on the cake IMO. I don't like racing against them because, all things equal, they seem to be easier to ride (and thus stiffer competition) and the noise and smell takes some of the fun out of racing. I'm not sure why, but the 4 stroke exhaust chokes me and the 2 stroke doesn't. That said, I have considered my next purchase being a 4 stroke so I guess I'm just like everyone else.


Posted by: mex_ros

Well my bike sounds really loud, i have a Remus exhaust without a silencer but i live i a country where everybody has a loud exhaust even on cars.
As for my neighbours...i never really liked them


Posted by: ZeCatfish

Harley riders run loud pipes cause they say "better heard than dead" so they're not about to change and with all the harley clone shows out there thats not about to change.
One note about noise. I live 1.5 miles from a quad TT track, they don't race every weekend about 4 times a years. Theres a ridge between me and the track. I bet every squid pod there thinks its cool to have the loudest engine there. You can here t he 4 stroke drone without any trouble.


Posted by: zaz696

The sad thing is the 07 4t's are louder than ever. A guy rode with our group last week with an "orange" 450 and a $700 titanium can on it (according to him). It was so loud I could not even hear my 605 over it (I changed mine to a Q silencer). He soon overheated, however and had to turn back about 30 miles in. The noise from that bike surely cancelled out any efforts the other 5 of us had made to quiet out bikes. What a waste!


Posted by: destructo

I'm kind of torn because when I ride by myself I usually use the the quiet insert, because I mostly just ride for the pure love of riding, but I have noticed that when I ride with my buddies I take the insert out and have a whole lot more torque in every gear and can keep up better or in most cases leave them further behind on missile launch woods runs. Now I have a BIg Gun full system on the way, luckily it comes with the quiet insert so I guess it'll kinda be the same?


Posted by: Moose

Here are your options.

More power now + louder bike = No riding later

Less power + quieter bike now = More riding later




Posted by: sgifford

My neighbors don't mind when I or my sons go for the occasional ride on our property on our quiet 4-strokes. A couple of nights ago I could hear a couple of 4-strokes and one 2-stroke racing around the streets of our semi-rural neighbohood. All very loud. I'm guessing they were early Christmas presents. It won't take much of that noise to have all their neighbors ticked-off.

It's incredible how short-sighted the manufacturers are on this whole issue. This includes the aftermarket. Sell more loud pipes now at the sacrifice of the future. And while I too would love a little more 'rip' in my bike, the story that started this thread is dead-on; it's the rider, not a small percentage increase in power that makes you fast.


Posted by: adam728

Loud is over rated.

I put an FMF Quiet Q on my KX125 for a hare scramble last weekend.
It still seemed a bit loud compared to the KDX, so I bought a bunch of UNI course air filter foam (2" thick).
I figured the foam/aluminum would dampen sound, and it sure did. I noticed no change in power, and the bike quieted way down. At 5800 rpm I registered 78 dB's using the SAE J1287 test. The three of us there kind of scratched our heads and they did it again, and again got 78 dB's.

Now, when I get it on pipe (8K+) it's still fairly loud, but I think a large majority of that is resonating from the expansion chamber. A custom pipe-guard may be in order. I had the quietest bike of the day, and probably the highest test rpm too. I'm not sure I really trust the 78 dB number, as many people were claiming to be 2-3 dB's lower at this event than the last one, so the mic could have been off. But there were still a good number of people barely making the 96 dB cut, even with quiet insterts and everything else. So even if the number is wrong, the bike is still darn quiet.

The point is, quiet is better for the sport and a fun challenge. Like many stated above, it far more rider than bike. After I got my arms back during the race I was able to make many of my passes in the deep sand washes in 4th & 5th gear, getting past a number of bigger 2 strokes and at least one 450f. Imagine, an 8 year old 125, basically stock (besides quiet mods), able to pull in bikes with 1 1/2 times the power (or more) in a suituation that demands power.

Now if I can only make it quieter. I'd love to rip past some cannon-blast-loud 4 stroke in almost complete silence.


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever




Posted by: Jwholetsdothis

I just realized my 4 stroke is way to loud.


Posted by: skyhigh230

makes me want to go get something to make my bike quiet


Posted by: Surfrider

story was great, i wish my buddies would shut their damn thumpers up


Posted by: Surfrider

in regards to the last 3 topics on noise pollution...I ride a 2 stroke and keep the exhaust quiet on both of my bikes 125 and 250. But then there are my riding buddies and fellow track riders who cannot get the concept of "power doesn't come from noise". I am a mechanic and they still don't listen, i have explained that they just need to properly jet their bikes to put a quiet muffler on, i have explained that fmf makes Q mufflers...but alas these morons show up at the next practice, one has a straght pipe on his 450 and the other guy has one of those shorty silencers on his 2 stroker. These same people also still have the balls to throw up their hands and curse the world because most of upstate NY area has been posted with orange diamonds indicating no motorized vehicles..........i hate loud pipes. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas on how to get through to morons like this, please let me know.


Posted by: 76GMC1500

The thick skulled morons are also the people who close the trails to motorized vehicles. It doesn't matter how quiet your bike is, they just don't want you to ride it.


Posted by: motometal

that's a bit of generalizing GMC. So are you saying that no riding areas are closing due to noise?


Posted by: crazymotoxrider

The article made me think as well,But unfortunatly I can't do much about the sound of my CR250.It is a 1985 and You can only buy so many parts for it.I have a Stock Pipe,And a DG Silencer which I replaced the packing and it didn't do much to the sound.My bike isn't TOO loud,But is alittle louder than my friends CR125 which is newer.I think alot of trails are shut down due to noise,And when I am at the track I am scared to death of them big 4-strokes behind me.It seems they are right behind me so I gun it looking like a idiot just because I think there right behind me,When there on the other side of the track.I do agree people should lessen the noise of their bikes.


Posted by: KTM Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymotoxrider
...But unfortunatly I can't do much about the sound of my CR250.It is a 1985 and You can only buy so many parts for it.I have a Stock Pipe,And a DG Silencer which I replaced the packing and it didn't do much to the sound...


Crazy - good to know you repacked your silencer - way to many people,particularly those on older bikes it seems, dont bother to. Actually there is a lot you can do with your old CR - do a search on Db Snorkle - great product - really quiets down a bike, does not have a performance impact (and the seller has dyno charts to prove it).


Posted by: ep1k

What are thumpers


Posted by: XRpredator

Quote:
Originally Posted by ep1k
What are thumpers

four strokes.


Posted by: ep1k

Sweet thanks. Do you know why they are called thumpers


Posted by: XRpredator

because of their low, thumping tone.


Posted by: peanuts

Does this mean I should put the baffle back in my xr250? Geeze I only took it out last night. Wish I'd read this yesterday afternoon. I hate sensible ideas. They always make me feel dumb.


Posted by: Chris in Denver

Yes, put it back on.


Posted by: iamdawalru5

I have known of this article for some months now, maybe even a year. I have always had it in mind from the time I read it, the idea that noise is bad. I just picked up my kx250 with the stock pipe, but with an fmf powercore2 silencer. I don't know how this exhaust compares in noise to the stock silencer because the guy I got it from didn't have it to give to me. Any thoughts? I know its pretty loud, not as loud as new fourstrokes or debaffled motorcycles anyway but we're barely skidding by on being able to use a local land owner's property. Last year the big complaint in this particular person's eyes, or as I should say ears was the noise we were making.

Is the powercore 2 too loud? This motorcycle has serious grunt that I have never had in a 2 stroke before and would hate to see it go, but Id rather not get kicked off someones land for noise reasons again. Thanks

Alex


Posted by: misfitfmx

My YZ250F has a Powercore IV on it right now, I'm sure I'll start getting some noise complaints soon.


Posted by: olderndirtmom

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitfmx
My YZ250F has a Powercore IV on it right now, I'm sure I'll start getting some noise complaints soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdawalru5
.Is the powercore 2 too loud? Alex



You can pick up a sound decibel reader for $25-$30. Seems the most rational way to approach the issue.


Posted by: O3RM125

I skimed thru most of this topic, I dont have time to read everything here, I do agree that noise is an issue and the bikes could probably be quieter.

I wanted to add one thing though- What are the loudest and most common bike you come across on a daily basis? Well for me and many others its not even a dirt bike, not even made to be ridden in obscure, lonely areas, but it is in-fact a Harley. They are everywhere, they have no sound limit(by law, here in my state anyway)and can be legally street-driven and are wayy louder than any off-road bike I have ever heard.

When the Harleys start to quiet down, so they are not blasting my ear drums out at a light when taking off when my windows are down, maybe Ill consider it too on my OFF-ROAD bike.


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

However, a Harley rides by, and is gone. When on the trail or track, we WILL bother others because we are often (many of us) in the same area all day. So if the Harley rider is offensive... then we have a right to be too?


Posted by: O3RM125

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-Strokes 4-ever
However, a Harley rides by, and is gone. When on the trail or track, we WILL bother others because we are often (many of us) in the same area all day. So if the Harley rider is offensive... then we have a right to be too?


That is an assumption that I would be riding my "loud" bike in one spot all day.. and not "moving on" down the road.. And you can hear a loud Harley from a whole lot further away, but thats not what my point was, I was only trying to say that these are street legal vehicles that everyone encounters daily and yet they have NO noise limitations. Even my car cant be that loud in my state. Also, Harleys tend to travel in packs(sometimes just 2-3, but sometimes many more!) as well, if youve never seen such, then I throw my hands up now and give up!

If riding trails and you dont start out away from houses then you should at some time be away from them, unless the "trail" is around your own house.. that is just simple common sense, I learned that at like 12 after getting salt rock shot at me for riding near someones home all day. When I was real young a kid was riding his bike up and down a road in a desert campground(Mobiland) we used to go to alot, a man came out and asked the boy if he had another sparkplug, the boy replied "no" and the man used a cresent wrench to break off the tip of the plug that was in the running engine.

When I think of trails I think more of fire-roads that are out in the middle of nowhere, if your riding near a large housing area thats not exactly the smartest thing in the first place, and in doing so your "being" exactly what those who dont ride bikes or own them dont want to hear or see..

Track: I think its obvious that a Track should be out and away from Homes, this really is a no brainer. If the land owner has homes nearby he shouldnt have built a track there(more common sense).

I dont think anyone should have the "right" to be offensive, but I sure would appreciate equal restrictions on noise. And it is no secret that Harley bikes can be very offensive, and I dont think I even need to go into all that... One could say since they have no limitation on noise that they indeed do have the right to be offensive! Depends on how ya wanna look at it I guess..

I know the bikes are loud and I understand the effect that has overall, and I guess what gets me is that our sport can be "picked on" while a Harley rider can go where he/she wants in areas where population is thick and be as loud as they wish.

edit: If you want quiet I could recommend a drz110, mine is about as loud as a lawnmower, when I take it out from my garage to the hills near my home my wife doesnt even hear me come or go. I dont ride my RM around my home at all, even though it would be totally legal for me to do so here, I dont because of how loud it is.


Posted by: Dirty Dave

That was a great article. I am embarrassed that I just found it. Noise has been an issue with me for along time. I ride Hollister hills alot and a friend of mine lives very near park. He said when he first moved in several years ago, he could only hear the park when the wind was blowing from the south. Now that the attendance has increased and the majority of bikes are 4 stroke he can hear the park every weekend and most mid-week days. I can tell you for a fact that noise has been a major factor in the delay to expansion of the park's boundaries. We as green/red sticker riders have owned several hundred acres of new riding area around the current fence line for several years but the locals have thrown up legal road blocks of any type they can think of to keep the trails from getting closer to their property. During Thanksgiving we camped near Elkins Flat. I figure about 30-40% of the bikes were red sticker and 50-60% of those had race pipes on. Nuff said... Thanks again for posting that article.


Posted by: sensei

I imagine I'll run my exhaust stock for awhile...


Posted by: wake_rider

I run the FMF TurbineCore II silencer with a FMF Fatty pipe and it seems to be pretty good. I'll say that it is definitely WAY quieter than my two buddies kx250's that are both running full Pro Circuit systems on them.

I agree with the sound issue. All the time I'm aggravated with these kids on quad 450F's with big gun exhausts. Not just the noise, but the attitude of the people on them. They are the kind of people that ride w/o helmets, going the wrong direction down directional trails, drinking in the parking lots, and just causing issues. They all seem to have this "hick" mentality that they can do whatever they want and "F-U" to anyone who says otherwise. All the while, their children are sitting there watching and beginning to emulate their attitude and actions... It becomes an ongoing cycle.


Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

It seems (based on my experience) that once a quad customer signs on the dotted line his brains get sucked right out. The shame of it is, to the general public we're all grouped right in there as "ORV"ers).


Posted by: wake_rider

Yeah. I know a good amount of responsible quad riders, but I know waayyy more that aren't. To ride a quad decently it just doesn't take the skill that a bike does. I'm not saying that pro riders aren't skilled, because they most definitely are, but you can take a quad out with no experience and over a weekend be able to keep up with the majority of the other riders. It's just not the same with bikes. There is a huge learning curve from one level to the next on bikes that you just don't have on a quad. Since that is the case, you see every Jim Bob jumping on a quad and immediately thinking they are a good rider, when in all actuality it's just a whole lot easier to keep up without experience when you are on a quad.

Now that I got way off subject, the problem is that you get these guys that just want to feel manly so they buy quads and put the loudest exhaust they possibly can in order to draw attention. These same people are the people that tear around the parking lots without helmets popping wheelies and run into someone and get someone hurt. They are also the same people that run reverse on directional trails because they don't know better and end up running head on into someone doing everything right (I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me, and EVERY SINGLE TIME it has been someone on a quad that was going the wrong way) then someone gets injured or killed. When that happens it causes a public uproar and our riding areas get shut down, again because of ignorance. What they don't realize is the harm that they are doing to the public perception of the sport and they are causing people that would normally have a neutral opinion about it into people that turn active in the push to shut it down in their area. When you call them out on it, they just don't care because they haven't been around the sport long enough to see how much we have lost due to ignorance amongst both the participants and the outsiders.


Posted by: digifox

I know that feeling

i`m not the only one that ride around here(on the trail by my house)
there are quads,2T and 4T`s

the 2-strokes you can`t even hear until to walk IN the woods(where the sound reverbs off the trees and such)
the 4-strokes you can hear them at my house...and farther away
the quads aren't really all that loud..

like my bike..Yes my "silencer" tip has been taken off and its a little noisy just sitting close to it. but when i`m riding through the wood everyone says they cant even hear me.


Posted by: flyingfuzzball

the reason people hear the 4t through the trees is because its more of a bass sound and bass travels farther and isnt dampened as easily.

its kinda like when you are sitting next to some annoying person at a redlight and they listen to rap with the bass turned up really loud and you can hear it perfectly through their car and yours.


Posted by: motocross3

I hate when you can hear someone elses music, and my friend has a crf 230 completly stock and its way louder than my KX 125, i can ride mine down the streets and they can barely hear me but he starts his up and they can hear it for miles, I'm going to talke to him about the Q silencer


Posted by: kim80y

If you want a quiet 2 stroke, and its even been tried on a few 4 strokes, get a Db Snorkel, it got my YZ490 down to below 92 Db at 5500rpm, way more RPM than tit needed to be for the sae test!!!
Excellent article!!!


Posted by: fmfsv5

i puy in my ear pohnes for my ipod so that nothing is able to distract me when i am riding my bike around the trails and i just run stock but if the exhaust is louder it will give you more horse power because on little fiftys when you take off the silencer for the pipe it is loud as no other and it gives it more horse power. when i rode that bike with the silencer off it made me wheelie so louder is more powerful


Posted by: Ol'89r

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmfsv5
i puy in my ear pohnes for my ipod so that nothing is able to distract me when i am riding my bike around the trails and i just run stock but if the exhaust is louder it will give you more horse power because on little fiftys when you take off the silencer for the pipe it is loud as no other and it gives it more horse power. when i rode that bike with the silencer off it made me wheelie so louder is more powerful


It sounds like you wear your ear phones for your ipod during your English/grammar/spelling classes too. You shouldn't do that. It makes you sound like a complete idiot.

Just my humble opinion.



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