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Honda EXP-2

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Posted by: robwbright

As the local Honda dealer told me Honda is no longer going to make 2 strokes after 2008, I was wondering if any of you guys had seen the EXP-2 that Honda has built? See Link:

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/exp2_tech.html

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mchonda/exp2.html

http://www.memagazine.org/backissue.../burn/burn.html

It has better emissions than a current 4 stroke and wins races.

Question 1: If they're going to quit making 2 strokes, why build this bike? (Of course it was several years ago and they still haven't done anything with it . . .)

Question 2: I'm no engineer, but this design looks relatively simple and cheap to manufacture. Comments appreciated . . .

Rob


Posted by: bedell99

THis bike was made in the 90's and was an experiment. I don't even think Honda expected the 4-stroke revolution would become what it has. There is no doubt there is a lot of technology left in 2-strokes, but I think the manufactures are going to put all there eggs in 4-stroke technology.

Erik

Edit: I remember see that bike and thinking I was done jetting my bike. It was fuel injected. I guess that was in 99 or 2000. Still no luck with FI 2 strokes. i was convinced by at least now they would have them.


Posted by: JustinC

I don't understand what happen with this EXP-2 and why Honda never pursued it any further, It sounds like it performed as good, if not better that the four strokes and it has lower emissions.


Posted by: bedell99

Actually the current CR250 has some innovations from that bike. I remember hearing Eric Gorr mention the port setup was very similar.

Erik


Posted by: rob129

That is an old article...sad enough. I dont want to see the 2-strokes go either. If you read a little more into the article they talk about the EXP-2 to hit production in 2000.


Posted by: bedell99

I think the manufactures knew that emission standards where coming back in the early 90's and that the future involved cleaning up there bikes. Honda wanted to be on top of this and if you read the article closely, I think the bike had more to do with making it satisfy a emission standard. What I loved was the fact it was FI. I always hated jetting. It wasn't very easy for me to learn and my past bike where always very fickle on jetting. I like the option of never having to change a jet. I truely think that the 2-stroke would be leaps and bounds better if the 4 strokes where never introduced to the market. I always wonder what honda would of introduced in the CR's if the CRF never had been made.

Erik

Erik


Posted by: JustinC

but it produced low emissions and it made just as much power as the four stroke they compared it to in the article, that is why i dont understand why honda abandoned it.


Posted by: hellbertos

Again, as Rob129 said, it is an old article (late 90s maybe??). The 4T they were comparing it too was likely an XR or similar. Not to say anything against the old XR's, but it would probably be a different story if it was a CRF450 in the comparison. That said, no telling what the outcome would have been had they continued development.

I too am disappointed that Honda would abandon 2Ts in favor of 4Ts. I know many 4T enthusiasts say they had to deal w/ 2T dominance thorughout the past 25 years, but the fact that they could still buy a 4T won't apply to us who want 2Ts, sadly. Its particularly disappointing since it seems obvious that 2T could be cleaned up and remain competitive (i.e. the 2T FI outboard mtotrs).

I think its a case of the AMA 4T rule, combined w/ emissions and the widespread adoption ( which = LOTS more $$$ than 2T in parts and aftermarket) that together will eliminate our 2Ts unless a manufacturer decides there is a market for it.


Posted by: Avena Quaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinC
but it produced low emissions and it made just as much power as the four stroke they compared it to in the article, that is why i dont understand why honda abandoned it.

Actually I remember seeing that the bike was 400cc and produced less than 40 HP... nowhere near than a carburated 2 strokes...


Posted by: kdxtodd

actually it made 54 hp and the same amount of torque as the big 780 4s.


Posted by: Doc

They actually went to production with the bike (1998 CRM250AR). It was going to be exported to Austrailia, but I think that never happened. I looked around and found a used one a couple of years ago at a shop in Japan and bought it. It is a dual-sport bike. The engine is very similar to the current CR250 case reed engine. It is not a very low emissons solution HC odor is very strong, but I've never had it on the dyno. Some guys at IFP (French research labratory) used auxlilary throttles in the transfer ports and were able to significantly increase the operating range under the HCCI/ATAC mode with this engine. This technology is not dead, just waiting for the next manufacturer to make it work. It would only make sense for an off-road or dual-sport, as MX and GNCC (closed course) type bikes have an emissions exemption.

Doc


Posted by: JustinC

Thanks for the information Doc. Although I currently own a 05 yz125, I prefer a smooth tractable powerband of the previous 250f's I once owned. I don't manufactures to give up on two strokes though.



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