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land/dirt bike legal rights

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Posted by: starbuks

Ok here is my dilema, my dad doesnt want any one on our land so he doesnt get in trouble for hurtin them selves. I was wondereing how not to get in trouble if someone wrecks on our land and wants money. I was also wondering about if we took our bikes somewhere else is tht a problem if someone wrecks on our bikes. Like they fall off and and and messed up can the get money even if were on someone else's property. If you guys kno please!!! let me know


Posted by: Okiewan

Sorry.. someone get's hurt, you're screwed... well, your dad is screwed. Waivers, legal docs be damned, you'll lose.


Posted by: ellandoh

how do the tracks do it??


Posted by: CRguyStan

The tracks make you sign a waiver essentially making them not responsible, but in the USA anyone can sue anyone, so all tracks in the AMA must carry hefty liability insurance. Last I heard I thought it went from 1 to 10 mil, but that is just a guess.

Anyway, there is no sure way to protect it. And if you build a track, and some kid comes and rides, without permission, and gets hurt, you are still up the creek.
Stan


Posted by: starbuks

ok tht sucks, is there anyway we can get screwed if we let them use our bikes but go to a different place(not on our property).


Posted by: Capirate

you can make them sign waivers.. but the usa is filled with money craving a-holes. the bad thing about the USA is everything is based on money, and everyone wants more, more more.


Posted by: Orange450Thunder

Check out www.trailpass.com we have liability and everything else that goes with opening a park.


Posted by: RS1441

dunno about US but if you have signed a waiver form over in the Uk if they fall of and die or somthing them/perants cant do anything at all if that form was signed


Posted by: robwbright

First, whether it be MX or skiing, Europe generally has a more reasonable view of those kinds of suits than the U.S. - over there, if you screw up, you can't win.

That said . . .

Sorry fellows - you're all wrong about the suit issues.

Depending on the state . . .

A waiver can accomplish abosolutely nothing, or it can be a COMPLETE bar to recovery against the landowner (Notice I do not say a complete bar to SUIT.). It pays to have an attorney write the waiver if you're going to go that route.

Further, many/most states have passed laws limiting the liability of landowners who let people use their land for hunting, fishing, ATV and dirt bike riding, etc . . .

For instance, here in Ohio, if you allow the general public to use it and you don't charge anything, there is ZERO liability on you unless you maliciously cause an injury (say put up a cable where there wasn't one before without warning people and marking it.

West Virginia is similar except that you can charge $50 per person per year. However, if you have insurance in West Virginia, the insurance company will have to pay for any injuries, so many of the companies don't want to insure that particular piece of land.

Here's the Pennsylvania statute FYI. It doesn't specifically include dirt bikes and ATV's, but it doesn't exclude them either.

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/nittanygrotto/landown.html

"Of course, anyone can sue anyone for anything. However, in each case which has gone to court in which this act was used as defense, the landowner has won the case.

Note that landowners do not have to make the land "safe" for the activity, nor do they have to warn persons of any "danger" that may exist.

This does not relieve persons engaged in a covered activity from exercising care to themselves or to the landowner's property.

If a landowner charges a fee to use the land and an injury occurs, the landowner may be held liable.

If the landowner wilfully or maliciously causes an injury, the landowner may be held liable."


Posted by: BSWIFT

In Oklahoma, you can not sign your rights away, or should I say, the insurance carriers right to sue to recover. The waiver's signed in Oklahoma are a total joke and are not enforceable. It makes the track owners happy, the event owner happy, but the insurance companies don't care. They will sue for recovery of your claim and will most likely win. As far as land owners, they can claim you are treaspassing and YOU will be the one to pay. If they charge you a fee, they can be sued to recover for your claim if you are injured on their property. The waiver's prevent the signer from sueing the property owner or promoter but the insurance company to sign it so your claim gives the opportunity to sue them on your behalf whether you agree with them or not. Gotta hate lawyers most of the time!
Your better off getting thrown from a horse, the nurses and Dr.'s treat you better as well.


Posted by: robwbright

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSWIFT
In Oklahoma, you can not sign your rights away, or should I say, the insurance carriers right to sue to recover. The waiver's signed in Oklahoma are a total joke and are not enforceable. It makes the track owners happy, the event owner happy, but the insurance companies don't care. They will sue for recovery of your claim and will most likely win. As far as land owners, they can claim you are treaspassing and YOU will be the one to pay. If they charge you a fee, they can be sued to recover for your claim if you are injured on their property. The waiver's prevent the signer from sueing the property owner or promoter but the insurance company to sign it so your claim gives the opportunity to sue them on your behalf whether you agree with them or not. Gotta hate lawyers most of the time!
Your better off getting thrown from a horse, the nurses and Dr.'s treat you better as well.


Well, you live there, I don't, and the Courts sometimes don't pay any attention to what the legislature passes. Nevertheless, Oklahoma does have a recreational use statute which limits liability of the landowner. The application of such statute in the Courts may well be as you say, but that's not how it reads.

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawso...eate/ok_rec.htm

http://www.uark.edu/ua/mngrisk/HuntingLeasesinOK.pdf


Posted by: robwbright

PROPERLY prepared waiver/releases have been held valid in Oklahoma Federal Court - the waiver/release absolves the owner of liability for the injury. The case is about horses, but that shouldn't make any difference at law - the issue is whether the waiver/release meets the two requirements stated in the case:

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawso...ase/schmidt.htm

The key is making sure it is properly prepared under the law of the state the contract is entered into. If it's not, then all bets are off. In many cases, when you see the injured person winning in spite of the waiver, you probably didn't see the malpractice lawsuit which occurred later against the attorney that prepared the deficient waiver. So yea, you gotta hate those attorneys because they didn't do their job properly.

Here's a list of decisions from other states:

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawso...ase/release.htm


Posted by: bsmith

Thanks for the reminder. I have a 2 page waiver with about 12 spots to initial for our farm, yet I think it's time to have the Attorney make sure it's still accurate.


Posted by: mg89

A simple thing, don't let anyone ride on your land except you and your family. If someone does sue them for trespassing.



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