DirtRider . Net MX, SX, Arena Cross, Off-Road Community

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net
Click Here for the Full Version

Pages: 1

Are we killing our own sport?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Wolf

First off, let me just say that I am not looking for a bashing contest a la 2 stroke vs 4 stroke.

Here's my take (I'm on my little soap box now):
I went to the track yesterday to help my son pactice. Fun stuff, as always.
When it was time for the big bikes to go ride, the ground started shaking, and while I'm at the track often, for some reason yesterday it all hit home. 80 % of the bikes were 4 strokes, and that's all you heard. The occasional 2 stroke sounded like a little moped in comparison. No, I did not have a sound meter, I didn't need one.
The noise was insane. I thought I was at a truck pull and should have brought ear protection. That is not to say that it bothered me...hell no, I like this stuff, but I can totally understand that others might not. Hell, if I lived near by and just sat down to dinner, I'd be pissed too! Frankly, now that I think about it, I am pissed! This will ultimately kill our sport. Manufaturers still don't seem to give a rip, aftermarket pipes are expensive and still loud...except for the Q - maybe.
They are shutting down tracks all over the country, they have outlawed operation of ATVs on your own property in many parts of the country, yet no one seems to push the panic button and implement drastic changes in rules and regulations. Hell, I agree with some of the folks that complain...you can not compare a YZF or a CRF or what ever to your lawn mower or weed trimmer anymore. They now are more like cars without mufflers.
So, when my son (he's 9 now) grows up and can only remember the days where he was able to ride and how much fun it was, I'll tell him to thank the idiot manufacturers and the people the bought this crap and didn't give a rip, and the AMA and all the race promoters and whoever else that didn't care enough to step it up and protect the sport.
The 2 strokes seem to be going away - I'd consider this a win for the enviros...
Now all they have to go after is noise, and as of yesterday, I am pretty sure they'll win

(I am now stepping down from my little soap box)

Posted by: cnielse5

I agree, we really need to cut the noise down. I go to an indoor track in the winter and I HAVE to wear earplugs anymore. It is not Cool to have a loud Bike!

Posted by: Okiewan

We really need to push HARD for quiet pipes ... the days of no R&D at the pipe mfg's, just kicking out loud pipes with minimal performance improvement need to end.

Posted by: XRpredator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

the days of no R&D at the pipe mfg's, just kicking out loud pipes with minimal performance improvement need to end.

Indeed. Trouble is you still have the punks who think "loud is cool". I am doing my part to educate the "punks" in my family that stealth is cool.

Now we just gotta convince the manufacturers to give us the lighter QUIETER stuff. I'd gladly suffer a minimal performance LOSS for a large loss of noise. I don't think I'm alone.

Hear me, FMF/ProCircuit/Big Gun/et al? The market is out there. Start the development.

Posted by: Okiewan

I'm putting something together on DRN to get the word out... stay tuned. We sure can't solve the problem, but we can make a lot of folks aware of it. One aftermarket company has already commited to get involved. We're gonna raise a stink and guilt as many people as we can into going quiet. Even Thump

Posted by: cnielse5

Noise needs to be Preached now and hard before we lose everything.

Posted by: squeaky

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRpredator

Now we just gotta convince the manufacturers to give us the lighter QUIETER stuff. I'd gladly suffer a minimal performance LOSS for a large loss of noise. I don't think I'm alone.

You're not, the "noise is cool" frame of mind is ridiculous . I'd gladly step up and help try to educate those who think that the louder the better.

I just put a Pro Circuit T4 (I think...I don't really know...) on my bike, and it does make the TTR louder, but not ridiculous loud, not unnecessary loud. Same with Rooster's WR...he just put the FMF Q (once again I think, I don't know...) on his bike and that quieted his down. The uncorked stock pipe on the WR hurts your brain, literally. I had to wear earplugs when I rode it, but you did suffer serious power loss with it "corked."

so...what do we have to do???

Posted by: jsned

Last weekend at a district 17 harescramble it was announced that next year there will be sound checks at the harescrambles. This is good. It will be a mess at first, will take time to test all the bikes, somepeople will try to cheat, but it is step.

I hope they do it right, no half-ass testing and letting some people go.

I have a couple freinds that have recently bought 4 strokes and the first thing they did was put a loud pipe on it.

Now a couple of them dont race, if they did they would get midpack C class at the next Hare Scramble at best.

They are running what the pro guy they like is using, (brand name wise anyhow). I have been calling them posers lately hoping they will switch them back.

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

I hope they do it right, no half-ass testing and letting some people go.

If you mean Wardy.. I wouldn't worry about it.

Posted by: ls1cameric

I noticed the same thing this past saturday at the track. There were a TON of crf's/ yzf's out there and you really couldnt hear anything when those things start screaming. It's freaking LOUD! I can totally understand your outlook and i have to agree. There has got to be something done about the noise or it will ruin the sport.

Posted by: Masterphil

As much as nobody wants to say it. This was not a problem before 4-strokes came on the market. It's just the nature of a high compression, cammed out 4-stroke to be loud. It's going to take a huge effort and a step away from current muffler design to get these things anywhere close to as quiet as a 2-stroke. I'd love to see it happen, I just don't see it happening until someone big steps up to the plate and forces it to happen.

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

This was not a problem before 4-strokes came on the market.

Sure it was.... it's the same complaints it's always been. All the 4-t did was change the order the complaints were listed in. Noise is now number one, pollution has been removed. Dust, evevironmental damage, etc are still on the list. Trashed riding areas, riding illegally... it's all still there.

Don't get me wrong, noise is our number one problem and something needs to be done. It starts with the Big 5; they CAN make a powerful but quiet motorcycle. Then it's the aftermarket companies. They toss out stupid-loud exhaust that at best moves the power around and saves a couple of pounds, things that benefit the elite racers and do nothing measurable for the average weekend warrior. They too can mfg a lighter pipe that increases power and is quieter. Problem is? They'd actually have to engineer a product and that costs them more.

Until we as a group put the pressure on, nothing is going to change. How many times have you've seen a young one come on here and ask about getting a loud pipe for his ttr? What's the typical response? THAT is one major thing we can do... "education" We've got to get past the louder is faster BS. When we stop buying the loud pipes, they'll stop making them.

Posted by: BadgerMan

If you are old enough to remember bikes like the early YZ’s with nothing but a little bulge on the end of the pipe or the TM 400 with nothing but a stinger, you will remember how loud a 2 stroke could be. And, it was the same old mis-informed reasoning……..more noise equals more power. We learned how to make fast but quiet two strokes. Now we need to do the same with the new generation of four strokes. Okie’s right in that if we quit buying loud aftermarket exhausts, they will quit making them.

Posted by: Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

When we stop buying the loud pipes, they'll stop making them.

Unfortunately I don't think we have the luxury to wait that long.

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf

Unfortunately I don't think we have the luxury to wait that long.

True , all we can do in the short term is raise awareness and try to convince the young ones (and less informed) to at least run their stock exhaust; a loud pipe will not get them a trophy, or looks of admiration from the rest of us.

Posted by: XRpredator

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerMan

If you are old enough to remember bikes like the early YZ’s with nothing but a little bulge on the end of the pipe or the TM 400 with nothing but a stinger, you will remember how loud a 2 stroke could be.

Exactly. Noise has always been a complaint. How many punks with their ratted out smokers do you still see out there? plenty. Yes, the 4 strokes have increased the noise, but I think part of that is not only people switching to the 4 from the 2, but also some other people joining the sport on the easier to ride bikes. I would bet we've seen a boom in the dirt biking population. More bikes = more noise.

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

Good thread..........4stroke OR 2stroke.......stealth is

Posted by: Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRpredator

More bikes = more noise.

I'd agree with that on principle.
Thing is, I don't see more bikes in the motos, I do hear more noise.

Posted by: XRpredator

I ain't just talkin' moto, Vulf. LOTS more professional practicers out there.

Posted by: Okiewan

shhhhh ......
You guys want to actually do something about it?
Coming soon to a web near you ... a non-profit, get the word out site.
Want to get involved?

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

Yes sir

Posted by: ellandoh

Posted by: JPIVEY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Want to get involved?

Absof'nlutely

D37 went manditory 96 dbs on 01/06 and a lot of tracks around here are headed that way.

Also, we can blame the bike manufacturers and we can blame the aftermaket, but I blame the local dealers who are very aware of the sound issues but will still supply and push the 102 db level pipes to any idiot off the street

Posted by: skull creek mx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

shhhhh ......
You guys want to actually do something about it?
Coming soon to a web near you ... a non-profit, get the word out site.
Want to get involved?

With your permission, I'd like to use the "Loud Sucks" moniker at my track - I'll make a banner for the front gate. Once you get the website up and running, let me know and I'll add that to the banner to get more people educated and involved.

Posted by: Okiewan

Feel free to use anything ...

Posted by: kawicam125

didnt honda make the 06' crf250r quieter with the dual-exhaust. i have a friend who owns an 05' crf250r and he said the twins made it louder and more powerful. once again, with power, comes noise. hopefully we'll pull together and push toward queiter exhausts.

Posted by: JWW

Quote:

Originally Posted by

I'll make a banner for the front gate. .

T's and stickers would be cool

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawicam125

didnt honda make the 06' crf250r quieter with the dual-exhaust. i have a friend who owns an 05' crf250r and he said the twins made it louder and more powerful. once again, with power, comes noise. hopefully we'll pull together and push toward queiter exhausts.

Your friend is incorrect.

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWW

T's and stickers would be cool

There'd have to be a fund-raiser of some kind, no way can I afford to do that.

Posted by: ellandoh

street bikes help giving us a bad name?? anyone have a thought on that?

ps....they are under scrutiny now also , from what i heard(major harley freak) their days are numbered til catalytic converters etc etc are mandatory

Posted by: JPIVEY

This is from a local paper South Bay "Daily Breeze"

MUFFLING MOTORCYCLES,

Seems that a lot of complaints have been made in the Palos Verdes, Gaffey and Paseo del Mar area that forced Harbor Area Councilwomen Janice Hahn to have the local Police start writting tickets for street bikes with loud pipes.

Police officers said they did not mind everyone riding and enjoying them self's but some were making life miserable for the locals. Quoting " We don't want to write a thousand tickets" But we will if we have to!"

I say it's about time

Posted by: Jeff Gilbert

I remember racing at mosier valley one night and I was so far behind everyone in my class, surely I must have fallen,

but I was at least a half a lap down. This was when 4 strokes were just getting popular and the tracks were still mainly 2 strokes. I kept getting distracted hearing what I thought was a rider coming up from behind me but each time I looked I didn't see anything. The noise I heard was from a thumper on the other side of the track. The noise would oscillate in and out from such a distance, I never heard the 2 strokes at all.

Posted by: SpeedyManiac

If someone makes a 'Loud Sucks' T-shirt I'd definitely get one.

Posted by: Masterphil

I agree that education is the only answer, but when people are willing to run aftermarket cams and bigbore kits in a stock class (CHEATERS), no ammount of education is going to make them run a quieter pipe, "BECAUSE THEY COST HORSEPOWER!!!!!" What we really need, as much as I hate to see some governing body step on everybody's toes, someone to step up. Be it the AMA, or god forbid, some government branch. Things like this don't happen based on education, they happen because a law or rule is enforced.

Posted by: SpeedyManiac

Maybe something like this?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d...dSucksFront.jpg

Posted by: Thump

couple of ideas.

Posted by: BSWIFT

Great thread. I'm in fo rwhat I can do.

Posted by: Okiewan

One of the first things we have to do is stop pointing the finger at 4-strokes... they are here for good, bitching about them won't help. Getting people to stay stock or invest in quiet pipes or inserts will.

Posted by: crazydirtbiker1

no matter what there will always be people who believe that the louder the bike is the more powerful it is.

Posted by: XRpredator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

One of the first things we have to do is stop pointing the finger at 4-strokes... they are here for good, bitching about them won't help. Getting people to stay stock or invest in quiet pipes or inserts will.

Amen brother.

We quieted the two strokes back in the day when they were running the stingers with no silencers, the same can be done for the thumpers.

Posted by: Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

I totally agree with that, and have not tried to point fingers at 4 strokes, 2 strokes, whatever strokes.

As far as a sticker goes, I may be able to help. Send me the artwork, I still have some connections in this business.

Unfortunately there isn't a governing body that is capable or has the backbone to stand up for our sport...that leaves it up to us....we have to self police. Raising awareness is a great start, but not nearly enough.
I belong to a club, we have some nice trails and a nice track and we'd like to keep it for as long as possible. So we implemented a 96db rule. We bought a sound meter and are testing tonight and all next week. This was met with plenty of resistance by some of our members...why? because they are not informed. They don't read the paper, they have no clue as to what is happening around them, so they don't get it...yet. It is frustrating to see, cause they are all good guys, but refuse to accept change.
We as the riding community need to realize what's about to happen to us. Don't rely on the next guy to do something about it, cuz that's what he's doing.

Posted by: Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawicam125

It is most certainly not any more quiet than an 05.

Posted by: XRpredator

I think Honda started marketing "quiet" with the 06 CRF250R, until they found out it wasn't

Now they market "balance"

Posted by: cnielse5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Okie is right. the blame game is not going to help anybody. the fact of the matter is that EVERYBODY needs to keep it to a dull roar.

Wolf also has a good point about the fact that people resist change and are just not in touch with reality.

The reality is that emissions are bieng taken care of becuase of cleaner bikes (4-stroke). and Now Noise polution is the BIGGEST complaint from both non riders and riders. Just Like with bike emissions if we do not reduce the amount of noise comming out of our bike we will live in a reality WITHOUT dirtbikes!

I am tired of hearing 2stroke guys whine about fourstrokes (be it noise, cost of maintenance, or weight). In reality these 2stroke babies are just whining because they are not accepting the modern reality of dirt bikes. People not accepting a change in reality is our real problem.

Keep in mind that this is comming from a 2stoke guy!

Posted by: dante

guys with 450's do you honestly need more power... do you use it all? Or does the pipe just change the torch curve more to your liking? It seems to me to be pointless to try and make a 450 more powerful... I think part of it is like a pride thing, or guys think they are cooler if everyone thinks, "well that stock 450 just was'nt cutting it, that guy must be FAST!"

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

It is most certainly not any more quiet than an 05.

I respectfully disagree ... my ears (theres a disclaimer for ya) tell me the sound from the '06 doesn't carry as far. At any rate, mine will soon be fitted with end caps and inserts to get to 94 db (so they say), a full on test will soon follow.

Posted by: RM_guy

This is a great thread and I hope we can really make a difference. I put the "Q" silencer on my bike because I ride on some trails near my house and I want to be as stealthy as possible. My wife is sensitive to the noise and she says she can't even hear me when I'm out riding. My neighbor that I ride with has his bike nice and quiet too.

The problem is there are a few other guys that ride that could care less how loud their bike is. One guy rides around his yard on an YZ80 (he's my age--don't ask) and pisses everyone off, including me. I've talked to him several times but he's got the attitude that it's his land and he can damn well do as he pleases. A real A'hole for sure.

Another guy has a CRF450 and rides on a small track in his backyard. He is a good 1/2 mile from me and I can hear it pretty clearly.

These guys are not proactive in land issues and when they get shut down they'll fight it by making more noise with a chainsaw or their tractor or something. There have been a few local practice tracks that almost got shut down for noise but these guys still don't get it.These are the ones that we have to reach and I'll do what I can but it's a hard road to travel.

Posted by: Steve St.Laurent

I like the idea of the stickers and t-shirts! Start a fund raiser when you get the website going to get them started and then use them as a fund raiser from that point on. I'd contribute to get it started. Then it could grow over time to be able to have banners that could be sent out to tracks and trails that request them - spread the word. I just bought a new old stock 04 cr250 and it doesn't get here until the 20th and the first thing I bought was an FMF Q silencer - it'll be here before the bike.

Posted by: Offroadr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

One of the first things we have to do is stop pointing the finger at 4-strokes... .

I agree but you have to remember that the acoustics of the deeper noise from a 4 stroke carries much further than a 2 stroke. from a 1/4 mile away you cannot here a 'normal' 2 stroke but you can a 4 stroke.

Posted by: dirtbikedude

Loud bikes give me a headache. You can have too much of a good thing. Unless you mandate that everyone wear ear muffs!

Posted by: Okiewan

Who doesn't realize that Jay? The fact is, 4 strokes are popular, we all know they are louder. Continually pointing out that they are loud gets us nowhere. They aren't going away.

The question is, what do we do about it?

Posted by: Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

I respectfully disagree ... my ears (theres a disclaimer for ya) tell me the sound from the '06 doesn't carry as far.

I can't debate that point since my experience is based on being trackside taking photo's, not from being further away on practice days. Once the kid is healed up and he's practicing a bit I may have a different opinion. Overall the bike to my uncalibrated ears seems no quieter.

Posted by: Okiewan

We're going to be testing some pipes/inserts very soon, I'll get some measurements... hopefully I'll be able to find a stock 05 as well.

Posted by: Wolf

Don't get caught up in a debate about what's louder...that's a non issue and a useless argument.
How about debating on how to reach guys like Mr. Dubach to develop a pipe that will smoke every other pipe and be quiet, and then get the race teams to run it?
How about looking into what the folks at CRD did to get their pipes so quiet? I imagine that if a french company can do it, everyone should be able to.

Posted by: Thump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf

Don't get caught up in a debate about what's louder...that's a non issue and a useless argument.
How about debating on how to reach guys like Mr. Dubach to develop a pipe that will smoke every other pipe and be quiet, and then get the race teams to run it?
How about looking into what the folks at CRD did to get their pipes so quiet? I imagine that if a french company can do it, everyone should be able to.

FWIW, I got to test one of the CRD pipes and it was quite. It was also obscenely heavy and REALLY made the bike a turd unless you were high in the RPM where it was acceptable but still considerably more sluggish than stock. There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

Also, if I remember right, DR. D was trying to develop a pipe that was chambered like the Hush Thrush mufflers for cars. Least thats what he said over pizza a few years back. Don't know what happened to that idiea though.

Posted by: Wolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thump

There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

I understand that Thump, but I don't agree. If I was an aftermarket company who doesn't really have our sport at heart, I would likely bank on that attitude. If we don't have a quiet light fast pipe available, who cares, they'll all just stick with loud...so why spend the money on R&D.

Posted by: Patman

Maybe something like the CRD system would be better used in a "dual" setup to balance the added weight a bit and possibly deal with the performance isse? Just a thought.

Posted by: Thump

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf

I had an FMF Q on my old YZF250 and thought it was great. It wasn't wisper quiet but it was WAY better than the stocker. It was about the same weight as stock, and only took a little off the bottom. I did not get to test on on the 426 but from my experience with one on the 250F I'd be willing to try one again.

Posted by: Offroadr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Who doesn't realize that Jay? The fact is, 4 strokes are popular, we all know they are louder. Continually pointing out that they are loud gets us nowhere. They aren't going away.

I am not disagreeing or arguing with you, just pointing out how we got in the situation. I agree they are not going away.

We used to ride about 30 miles of trails that was my buddies, the property has close neighbors that we didnt want to tick off. We cringed everytime someone would come ride with a 4 stroke just because of the sound travel. In the woods. a 2 stroke's sound dissapates very quickly.

Posted by: JPIVEY

Quote:

There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

There are pipes out there that will get you below 96dbs, I got my 426 from a 102 ( WB R4 ) to a 93.7 with a WB E series and insert total cost was around 200 bucks

D37 went manditory 96 in Jan 06, 500+ riders with every make of bike under the sun got to or below 96

FMF, WB, Supertrapp all have pipes that will get you there with little or no loss, I actually gained in the bottom to mid range, which was cool by me, I never tapped into the outer limits anyhow

Posted by: Masterphil

We don't just need quieter pipes. We already have those. People don't buy them because they are heavier than stock, and in most cases lose power somewhere in the rev-range. What needs to be produced is something the same weight as stock or lighter that makes the same power as stock or better AND is quieter. Then, and only then, will your average rider/racer care enough to buy one. The pipe manufacturers are going to have to "trick" most riders into buying a quieter pipe with claims of increased power and reduced weight. Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

Posted by: JPIVEY

I must not have paid much attention to the weight, because I didn't notice any difference; The weight ( miminal at worst ) was the least of my concerns, if I have a choice between riding or being told go pound sand because I'm too loud or the area has been close due to exceding sound levels, I'll take the added weight anytime.

Our situation may be a little different out here than it is in your neck of the woods, we have groups that are seriously trying to close all OHV use, either on Private or public land, sound levels plays a part in their quest to do this on private property including tracks, but illegal trespassing is the leading factor and they are using these two issues with great success.

We have to do what needs to be done now, if that means sacrificing a little weight or performance or both then so be it, if we wait till the industry meets our petty demands it will be too late, once an area is gone, it ain't coming back

Posted by: robwbright

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterphil

Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

It's incredible to me how much those exhausts cost. My buddy checked into a Pro Circuit system for his YZF450 (the yellow one - cool!).

I haven't verified it, but he said it was $1000.00+. Geez. I think he's going to stay with stock. . .

Is it just that the 4 strokes are the current preferred flavor (i.e. high demand), or is there some manufacturing difficulty/issue causing the high price?

Posted by: Okiewan

Just another reason to stay stock. A $1,000 dual pipe for my CRF? Not a chance.

Posted by: robwbright

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Just another reason to stay stock. A $1,000 dual pipe for my CRF? Not a chance.

My other buddy just bought an 05 CRF250. Turns out there was a $1000.00 rebate on the 05 and the 06 (in part because of the dual exhaust) was $1000.00 more anyway - so he apparently got the 05 for $2000 less.

Posted by: Wolf

This "stock" thing keeps coming back over and over....on most bikes stock is over 102 dbs and yes, I have more than just my ears to prove that. We tested at our club. Stock is too loud on most, and that falls squarely on the shoulders of the manufaturers. Don't stay stock if you claim to care about noise.

Posted by: Okiewan

Baby steps mister .... step one is to get folks to avoid the loud aftermarket pipes. Step 2 would be to get them to spend money to quiet the bike, step three is to get the bike mfg's to ALL make quieter bikes and step 4 is to get the aftermarket to follow suit. Yeah, the stock pipes are too loud.. but they don't make the earth shake and your teeth chatter like a Ti T4!

Posted by: Wolf

Nah, Okie, I don't think so.
Going by your steps above, step one needs to be on the manufactures. You said it yourself, stock pipes are too loud. If you are dropping 7 k on a new bike you should get a pipe with it that will meet or beat requirements to keep our sport alive. Why should you have to buy an aftermarket pipe just to be able to ride?

Actually, above all steps has to be the fact that everyone needs to realize what's going on and what's at stake....
Baby steps? Look at the rate the AMA is implementing sound restrictions...now that's baby steps...I don't think we'll have that kind of time, though I'd love to be wrong.

Of course this is only my opinion (of which there is no shortage

)

Posted by: Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Baby steps mister .... step one is to get folks to avoid the loud aftermarket pipes. Step 2 would be to get them to spend money to quiet the bike, step three is to get the bike mfg's to ALL make quieter bikes and step 4 is to get the aftermarket to follow suit. Yeah, the stock pipes are too loud.. but they don't make the earth shake and your teeth chatter like a Ti T4!

I might reverse step's two and three. If the ruling bodies made 96db mandatory for next season with steps lowering it even further over the next 2 or 3 years, all the manufacturers would still produce bikes.

Posted by: JPIVEY

Actually, I would like step one to be GET YOUR LOUD SUCKS SITE UP AND RUNNING !!!!

Start getting the info out to the masses, info like what is being closed and why, pipe test, known pipes on know bikes that will get you to 96 or less

Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPIVEY

Actually, I would like step one to be GET YOUR LOUD SUCKS SITE UP AND RUNNING !!!!

Workin on it!

Posted by: Rich Rohrich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

Workin on it!

Quit playing on the net and get back to it MISTER.

issed:

Posted by: JPIVEY

I know you are and I know it will be as benefical to the sport as DRN is

So I'll thank you now

Posted by: 2-Strokes 4-ever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterphil

We don't just need quieter pipes. We already have those. People don't buy them because they are heavier than stock, and in most cases lose power somewhere in the rev-range. What needs to be produced is something the same weight as stock or lighter that makes the same power as stock or better AND is quieter. Then, and only then, will your average rider/racer care enough to buy one. The pipe manufacturers are going to have to "trick" most riders into buying a quieter pipe with claims of increased power and reduced weight. Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

I agree........the average joe is weighing out price, weight, and performance. One day technology will have us with all three. (maybe not price) Until then, we must remember that the majority of the public thinks our dirt bikes are loud and destructive..........Commiting to quiet is #1 right now, if the public can't hear us, we stand a greater chance of being not-noticed (good thing). Support for "Loud Sucks", and making the motto seen is a very promising way of letting people know that we ALL care about the noise of our bikes and YOURS. "Threatening the sport we so much enjoy is un-cool!"

Posted by: Avena Quaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okiewan

One of the first things we have to do is stop pointing the finger at 4-strokes... they are here for good

I cannot point a single good thing that those farting things brought to this sport...

Posted by: WoodsRider

The noise issue has plagued our sport long before most members of this site were born. Long before the current generation 4-strokes were even a thought in some designers brain. Recently I found an original Cycle World test on the '72 Bultaco Alpina. The article claims this bike is "quiet as a church mouse". Now I own almost the exact same bike and out of all my bikes it's the loudest. It's the slowest bike I own, but the noise alone scares my kids... and ticks off the wife. My son won't ride with me if I'm on the Bultaco.

Posted by: y_a_m_a_h_a_2005

I Totally Agree That The Noise Level Is Way Way To Loud I Went To A Race Track Last Night And The Bikes Were Louder Then The Pro-Motified Sprits.....And There REALLY LOUD!

Posted by: jenn

This thread is fantastic! I am officially being educated about noise and the realization of what we will lose if we don't make a stand.

I am a fairly new rider (started less than 1 year ago) and surprisingly this noise topic has not come up very much in my crowd. Especially surprising because I live in Cali where the laws are strick and there plenty of efforts going on around here to close down or restrist our riding spaces.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard the noise topic a couple of times- however, the topic was more like a few guys bragging about how awesome their loud *$$ bikes are. Unfortunately that was the extent of the conversation. I imagine I will have a pretty strong (and more educated) response to these people next time.

The funny thing is that these people really are not monsters

. They are good (and very misinformed) guys who I have learned a great deal about riding from. Maybe it is time for them to learn something about riding from me ?!!!

Here's what I plan to do- BE PROACTIVE!

1. I have been looking to purchase a new bike. When I find the one I want- you can believe that I will research to find out if it is at 96db or less (stock). If it is higher I will definately purchase whatever aftermarket stuff I need and bring it down to an appropriate roar.

2. I will spread the word....both to those who came before me and to those who come to this great sport after me. Make no mistake I will be firm.

(but reasonable). I am sure that because we all have one thing in common...WE LOVE RIDING, there is adjustments that we ALL can make to ensure it's future. The change has to start with OUR ATTITUDES.

3. I'm going to get on the site that Okie suggested and buy me some rad *$$ bumper stickers and a tee.

Thanks for making me a better rider (and I wasn't even on my bike)! I will do my darn'dest to share the wealth (knowledge).

Posted by: kakashi

thank god i live where i do here no one cares if youve got a loud bike allmost everyone on the road has a atv or dirt bike and we ride the woods and its down into a valleyish area and you can hear it easily outside but you cant hear it well from inside unless nothing is on and its dead quiet in the house

Posted by: BBking25

i haven't been by enough race bikes to here that, mine and my family's is quiet but i'm getting a yz250f soon, hopefully its not too loud!

i heard they cut some power to decrease the sound which is good, also because i'll be a new rider and too much power could be bad
-i couldn't have too much sound, i'd change it though they need something different than that dB KTM snorkel...ugly ugly ugly

but i really can't stand it when on the road a bike goes buy and you have to practically yell for someone to hear you

Posted by: cleopatrisha

Yeah I can see if your riding in town or near someones home but this is not the case with alot respectful of riders.

Posted by: rm250_master

i love to race and im thinking about opening my own track when i get older and if i have 2 i will buy my own bikes to rent out be fore they stop rideing all together.

dirtbiker 4 life!

Posted by: lynch racing

To preserve the sport a 98db noise limit must be investigated! Can a 4T make the limit and be competitive with a 2T at the same noise level? Will a 98db limit be needed for a 2T when the closures are coming from noise that travels and irritates locals as now with the current 4T trend?

Posted by: nsxxtreme

a suggestion on the loud sucks banner.

Sticking this at a local track event, everyone would know what it means.

But if you used it somewhere else not everyone would know what you were talking about. Somehow include what you are talking about in the banner. I dont know exactly how to do that. A picture, additional text, dont know it's a great start though. It's something for the more creative people to come up with.

Posted by: shadowsniper

you know i've been reading most some of this thread and i can agree. i believe in loud pipe just because i like the deep throat noise, but your right the noise is a problem for alot of people out there. a few weeks ago i was talking to a buddy of mine about how it pissed him of that road bikes can have there pipes as loud as the want but we dirt bikers have very strict regulations. i would be willing to get involved, let me know what needs to be done and i will do what ever i can.

Posted by: mox69

Street bikes really cannot be "as loud as they want." Almost all cities have noise ordances. The police in that town will probably stop you if you ride through with your noisy street bike.

Also remember that even though street bikes have loud pipes, its not a whole lot different from a semi truck barreling down the road. You only hear the loud pipes for 15-20 seconds as they drive by.

MX bikes usually ride in a small area, within a constant distance. They also are ridden in the middle of nowhere a lot of times. People expect a loud harley , semi , helicopter , airplane, jackhammer, dump truck, rap music, etc. while in an urban setting.

They don't expect these things while horse back riding, camping, hiking, taking a crap, etc in the middle of the forest. Also don't forgot about the negative stereotypes people already have about us.

Some old man drove up to my cabin just last saturday and started complaining that "I was ripping up the town roads and doing donughts" He went on and on about how its illegal to ride that thing and the he graded the roads, etc. He also told me about some rider on "yellow bike" he chased off his "sand pit" just a few days ago. He took my U-turn on a dead end minimum maintenance road for a donut somehow I guess. Thank god I don't own a suzuki or I think he would have called the sheriff.

This guy was obviously lumping me into the rest of the r-tards who he had to chase off his private property.

After I informed him that I had a motorcycle licence, the bike was fully registered with the DNR and that I was just as legal as the 30 four wheelers that run up and down the road all day he got a bit quiter. I apoligized 15 times for "ripping up the road" and told him I would be more careful. I have no other way to get to the 1 trail we have left besides driving carefully down this road.

My tracks had completely dissappeared when it rained the next day, but the point is he already stereotyped me as a jackass dirtbiker, and will probably continue to lump me into the group.

Posted by: shadowsniper

yeah very true.

Posted by: flyingfuzzball

yea most dirtbikers are stereotyped by people who have had bad experiences

Posted by: jsned

I didnt want to start a new thread on something I know has been hashed out here alot, and I didnt want to put one in the Flame section. This is probably already been said by a few of you in this thread but I just got to say something.

I am not bashing 4 Strokes, because have you heard a stock WR450 or stock CRF450X, very quiet. I know 4 strokes can be quiet, but I went to ReeeeeeeeedBud this weekend and I will tell you the AMA is NOT doing enough about the problem. If they want to do something they will have to start with the professional ranks because alot of people are easily influenced into thinking they have to have what #4 and #7 have. I would be willing to bet the race would have been just as good and turned out just the same had they all been riding quiet bikes. If ALL of them had been riding quiet bikes.

But they will just talk about it and crap becuase I think very few people really care these days.

Posted by: Chris in Denver

Yep, went to the track last weekend. Saw two bikes. 1 2smoke and 1 thumper. The little two stroke was rippin it up and the 4 stroke rode like me-slow and unsure.

You guessed it. The four stroke was obnoxious and loud. I was thinking-yep he really needs that extra 1 or 2 hp. Plaaaalleeeeeze.

Posted by: Dgaspar

How do you get your bike noise tested? These sound meters can be pretty expensive to use only once or twice. I have a two stroke CR250 and want to use it on the public trails. There is a 96db restriction and I have no idea how loud my bike. One thing for sure its alot quieter then a comparable 4 stroke! That being said I know a bit about power spectrum and noise is measured at certain frequencies which is more sensitive to the pitch made by a two stroke.

Posted by: Tod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dgaspar

How do you get your bike noise tested? These sound meters can be pretty expensive to use only once or twice.

Expensive for one guy, but not for a club.
Maybe join or go visit one.

Another possiblity is to rent a meter from a local concert sound company. Most likely if you ask to rent one for five minutes in the parking lot, they will probably just go outside and hold the meter for you for free.

You will also need a tach. Chainsaw shops have the vibrating kind for 2 strokes and they are pretty cheap.

Posted by: dan7777777

I like quiet bikes. But why does everyone get so worked up over 2 strokes fading out?

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net
Click Here for the Full Version

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net Click Here for the Full Version

Are we killing our own sport?

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net Click Here for the Full Version

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net
Click Here for the Full Version

This is the text version of DirtRider.Net
Click Here for the Full Version