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My property

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Posted by: Hanlon099

Her say i have a 5 acre property and i have a Mx track on half and a FMX Part on the other, I would liek to open this to the public for a small fee, but! Im conserned that if some one hurts themself I will get in trouble Is there a way I can make it so that im not responsible?


Posted by: IndyMX

not sure about the laws up there.. Mostly because I am not up there, also I am not a lawyer...

However, the track that I race and practice on has a membership requirement. You pay a small fee to be a member and you pay a small fee everytime you ride on the track.

Supposedly this keeps the owner of the property safe from liability, since, technically every member is a "partner" in the place. You sure as hell can't sue yourself...

Run it by a lawyer.


Posted by: CaptainObvious

Is your property zoned for commercial use?


Posted by: robwbright

You'll have to check the law and talk to an attorney.

For example:

In West Virginia you are allowed to charge up to $50.00 per year per person and still avoid most liability for injuries to the riders. In Ohio, if you open to the public but don't charge anything, you're immune from suit. If you charge anything, then you're liable.

Of course, a properly constructed waiver can fix a variety of problems.

Canada may be an entirely different situation. If it's anything like Europe, then you might be immune from most types/causes of injuries regardless of whether you charge or not.


Posted by: MrLuckey

Quote:
Originally Posted by robwbright
In Ohio, if you open to the public but don't charge anything, you're immune from suit.


I highly doubt that. You may (or most likely not) be immune from from someone getting a settlement from you or your insurance. I seriously doubt that you are immune from spending thousands or tens of thousands of dollars fighting a frivolous lawsuit against someone or some company who might have lawyers on the payroll who have nothing better to do than drag you through the courts until your arse bleeds. (ie insurance companies come to mind).


Posted by: mg89

Make a waiver for anyone who uses your track or fmx, for if they do something stupid they can't hold you liable. Like ride at your own risk type paper. You may need a lawyer to make the waiver legal but I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.


Posted by: Hanlon099

Thanks for allt he help guys, I'm thinking of maiking a waver and it saying something like if you are hurt or injured you may not sue or bla bla bla. you know what i mean but, if i did that id have to run the form past a lawyer or something.


Posted by: robwbright

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLuckey
I highly doubt that. You may (or most likely not) be immune from from someone getting a settlement from you or your insurance. I seriously doubt that you are immune from spending thousands or tens of thousands of dollars fighting a frivolous lawsuit against someone or some company who might have lawyers on the payroll who have nothing better to do than drag you through the courts until your arse bleeds. (ie insurance companies come to mind).


Have you actually read the statute? Or are you just speaking from the few cases that make the paper where the Courts get it wrong? (The McDonalds and Dominos cases come to mind). There are states where your "most likely not" statement is accurate. However, Ohio is not one of them.

First, the state is on the Defendant's (and insurance company's) side in Ohio - the legislature is in the insurance companies' pocket. Second, the recreational land use statute is designed to encourage people to open their land for free public use. That's the whole point of it.

You're right. They can string it out in court for awhile. But if you want to put in a track, you better be darn sure that you have enough money to make it to summary judgment proceedings.

People can file a suit based on next to nothing as far as evidence - I'm defending one right now. However . . .

It's VERY difficult to win a case as a Plaintiff when the statute clearly prevents your recovery. You have to pull the wool over the judge's eyes and you're still likely to be reversed on appeal.

You know what happens when you win a case like that as the Defendant? If the case is indeed frivolous, then . . .

They have to pay your attorney fees. And, they might have to pay monetary sanctions on top of that for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

The Ohio statute is VERY clear. There is no liability if:

1: You open it to the general public;
2: You don't charge;
3: You don't commit an intentional tort against the injured rider (such as putting up a wire where there wasn't one before or leaving a well uncovered so that they fall into it).

To prove my point, here are the statutes:

1533.18 Premises, recreational user, all-purpose vehicle defined

As used in sections 1533.18 and 1533.181 of the Revised Code:

(A) "Premises" means all privately-owned lands, ways, and waters, and any buildings and structures thereon, and all privately owned and state-owned lands, ways, and waters leased to a private person, firm, or organization, including any buildings and structures thereon.

(B) "Recreational user" means a person to whom permission has been granted, without the payment of a fee or consideration to the owner, lessee, or occupant of premises, other than a fee or consideration paid to the state or any agency of the state, or a lease payment or fee paid to the owner of privately owned lands, to enter upon premises to hunt, fish, trap, camp, hike, swim, operate a snowmobile or all-purpose vehicle, or engage in other recreational pursuits.

(C) "All-purpose vehicle" has the same meaning as in section 4519.01 of the Revised Code.


1533.181 Exemption from liability to recreational users

(A) No owner, lessee, or occupant of premises:

(1) Owes any duty to a recreational user to keep the premises safe for entry or use;

(2) Extends any assurance to a recreational user, through the act of giving permission, that the premises are safe for entry or use;

(3) Assumes responsibility for or incurs liability for any injury to person or property caused by any act of a recreational user.

(B) Division (A) of this section applies to the owner, lessee, or occupant of privately owned, nonresidential premises, whether or not the premises are kept open for public use and whether or not the owner, lessee, or occupant denies entry to certain individuals.



1519.07 Preclusion from liability regarding safety of recreational trail

(A) As used in this section:

(1) "Intentional tort" means an injury to person or property that the tortfeasor intentionally caused, to which the tortfeasor intentionally contributed, or that the tortfeasor knew or believed was substantially certain to result from the tortfeasor's conduct.

(2) "Premises" means a parcel of land together with any waters, buildings, or structures on it that is privately owned and that is directly adjacent to a recreational trail.

(3) "Recreational trail" means a public trail that is used for hiking, bicycling, horseback riding, ski touring, canoeing, or other nonmotorized forms of recreational travel and that interconnects state parks, forests, wildlife areas, nature preserves, scenic rivers, or other places of scenic or historic interest.

(4) "User of a recreational trail" means a person who, in the course of using a recreational trail, enters on premises without first obtaining express permission to be there from the owner, lessee, or occupant of the premises.

(B)(1) An owner, lessee, or occupant of premises does not owe any duty to a user of a recreational trail to keep the premises safe for entry or use by a user of a recreational trail.

(2) An owner, lessee, or occupant of premises does not assume, has no responsibility for, does not incur liability for, and is not liable for any injury to person or property caused by any act of a user of a recreational trail.

(C) This section does not apply to intentional torts.


Posted by: robwbright

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanlon099
Thanks for allt he help guys, I'm thinking of maiking a waver and it saying something like if you are hurt or injured you may not sue or bla bla bla. you know what i mean but, if i did that id have to run the form past a lawyer or something.


Get a lawyer to WRITE it. We (and most offices in my area) typically charge $75-125 for deed/will preparation. I'm sure a waiver would be a bit more because we don't do them regularly, but I expect $250 would probably be the most we'd charge.

If the lawyer prepares it, then you would probably have an actionable malpractice claim against him if the waiver fails to protect you from liability.

More than that, find an attorney who knows something about that sort of law and discuss with him how the law is actually applied in your state.

For instance, while a land owner is immune in West Virginia, the landowner's insurance company is not in many cases. Thus, if they find out about it, the landowner's insurance company will in many cases try to prevent you from having the track or put regulations on it's usage.

My friend has a practice track and Nationwide tried to stop them from using it. They finally agreed that he could use it if he only allowed his family and persons over 21 years old.


Posted by: MX-727

Rob,

What can you tell me about Mississippi laws relating to a private track? Are there any cases you can find in Lexis that pertain? My understanding of MS. is that the liability laws are tough against a defendant. One reason they brought the tobacco lawsuit in MS.


Posted by: Pydor

I have a track Here in Kentucky that I have built, and more rider's are showing up every weekend. Got to get a waiver, starting to get worried about getting sued for someone being stupid!!


Posted by: mtk

PA has a similar law on the books as Ohio, which is why the local landfill property (not part of the active cell, of course) is a dirt bike heaven. We wave at them, they wave at us, and anyone who gets hurt riding there is SOL if they try to sue.


Posted by: bsmith

Different subject but same concern. I have a fairly extensive waiver for the people who ride Horses at our Equestrian Center. Under 18 need a parent or legal Guardian signature along with their own. It has multiple sections where an initail is required.

We had an Attorney create this for us and just the feeling of security is worth the effort. We have been very lucky and no one has been hurt, but look at it like an Insurance policy, if you never use all the better, but when you needed it's there! The attorney who made ours is also the one who would be defending us, so I suggest working with some one local you would be willing to work with again!



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