Dirt Rider . Net Text Version Home
Pages: 1
Belray's response...Advanced Tech Oil..
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: weimedog
So I have been watching the oil related posts....I also shot gunned the oil manufacturers as well as the tech folks at VOR. A bunch of standard responses...then BelRays.
I politely asked why spend $10 dollars when I can spend $5 and get the same level of protection.
Belray folks sent a very professional and polite response that addressed several points. One seemed to have some relavence:
"Bel-Ray EXS Synthetic Superbike
10W-50 contains ester base stock which molecularly bonds to metal engine
parts, unlike the PAO's found in many competitors' oils. The esters give
incredible start-up protection and, although it is more expensive to make,
we feel that your experience with EXS will show that it is worth it."
Does this have as much value as it sounds? Is the competition really different?
Reminds me of the Prolong Promotional we got for the trucks...by the way Prolong WORKS. Prolong in Trans, Rearends, Motor and the thing runs cooler and uses less fuel. Bet Prolong would waste Motorcycle Clutches though.
------------------
2001 VOR503 V-Cross
1982 husqvarna XC430
1974 Bultaco Frontera 360
6 Kids, Four Ride, 3 race. (cr125, yz80, 2 KX125's)
Case 780, INT 1066, Ford LTL9000...and a Percheron
Posted by: Rich Rohrich
There is plenty of evidence to support the notion that polyol esters make a superior base stock in comparison to polyalphaolefins. Given similar additive packages the ester based oil would conceivably be the superior oil. Whether or not it's worth the additional cost over a PAO based synthetic, or you require it from a protection standpoint is your call. It's an excellent oil, so you can't go wrong from a quality perspective. It's not uncommon for ester based oils to be incompatable with other oils, so you may want to verify that with BelRay.
As for the bonding claim, you might want to ask them to PROVE that http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/biggrin.gif
Good luck on your quest http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif
Posted by: DaddGoneMadd
Where I work, they developed a proprietary oil to meet the specific needs of our aircraft accessory products. I asked the engineer on the project what base stock he used, and it was like 80%PAO, 20%ester, where as commercial turbine oil is 100% ester. His reason was that our main service problem is condensation in the unit. Ester bases are "better", but they are hygroscopic. This suddenly made sense to me why "conventional" synthetic oils like Mobil1 are PAO based. They are intended to be left in an auto engine for long periods. While "racing" synthetics are ester based like Maxima, Redline, Belray. In a racing application, the oil is changed frequently, so there is little concern of water build up, unlike an automotive application with extended change intervals. Of course I could be way off, too.
Posted by: brook
I heard it was the ester based oils that damaged rubber seals in the early days of synthetics. POAs are more seal friendly
Posted by: Rich Rohrich
Esters have a long history of seal swelling issues. Although these days in racing applications this doesn't appear to be as much of an issue.
Posted by: spanky250
Dadgonemad is right about the hygroscopic properties of ester oils. I have worked in the refrigeration industry for nearly twenty years. The new "green" refrigerant, R-410a, uses ester-based oil, and is so hygroscopic that special measures must be taken in installing and servicing equipment that uses this refrigerant. In a technical training seminar by Trane industries, the Trane engineer poured one cup of this oil in a graduated cylinder, and set it on the table by him. By the end of the 6 hour class, the volume in the container had nearly doubled, simply from the oil drawing moisture from the air.
[This message has been edited by spanky250 (edited 03-17-2001).]
Posted by: GlennP
You guys got me thinking about a problem some have had with Redline 2 stroke racing oil. It uses a polyol ester base stock. Carb brass tends to oxidize and I always found what looked like water and a separated oil component in the bottom of the carb. I have found a similar substance in the bottom of my plastic gas can. When I did an experiment with different fuels mixed with Redline in sealed glass containers containing carb brass, there was no reaction at all. Perhaps the oil in the fuel draws moisture from the vented carb when the bike sits during the week, and plates out on the carb parts. Is this a possibility Rich? I know one Redline rep has said this is from their additive package, but another said is was from MTBE which is BS. This ester base stock issue makes the most sense to me.
Glenn
'00 GasGas XC250
Posted by: bwalker
I was told by Redlines head chemist that it was caused by sulfur and phosphorus compounds in pump fuel. Btw running b-35 will cure the problem and clean all the black stuff off the jets that was there in the first place
------------------
Ben Walker
00 cr 250
BRC,AMA,NRA Member
Posted by: Ando
For us 4T guys hygroscopic ester base stock oil is not a problem because the elevated oil temps drive out any water that is drawn into the oil. For 2T guys who mix, this is just another reason to drain your gas tank and store your fuel in sealed steel.
BTW I think both you guys are right, it is the Phous + Sulphur additives that react with the water drawn into the ester based oil.
Posted by: jeffg
"Hygroscopic"? "Hygoroscopic"? Isn't the word we want to use here actually "hydroscopic"? Just thought I'd ask.
Posted by: Vic
jeffg- No. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif
Posted by: Ando
No.
hy·gro·scop·ic
Pronunciation: "hI-gr&-'skä-pik
Function: adjective
Etymology: hygroscope, an instrument showing changes in humidity + 1-ic; from the use of such materials in the hygroscope
Date: 1790
1 : readily taking up and retaining moisture
2 : taken up and retained under some conditions of humidity and temperature <hygroscopic water in clay>
- hy·gro·scop·ic·i·ty /-(")skä-'pi-s&-tE/ noun
Posted by: Boit
Jeff: Since the prefix "hydro" means water, you would think that the term WOULD be "hydroscopic". There is no such term in Webster's Collegiate 10th edition.
By the way, brake fluid is EXTREMELY hygroscopic. Since we experience high humidities here in Louisiana most of the time, I only bleed my brakes during periods of low humidity....say 40% or lower. That's an extremely low humidity time for us!
[This message has been edited by Boit (edited 03-16-2001).]
Posted by: Vic
Boit- Try taking your bike in the house when the air conditioning is on and bleeding your brakes in the living room. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/smile.gif
Posted by: HiG4s
Make sure you do it when the wife isn't home and if you spill any on the carpet you say the cat was sick and threw up there.
Posted by: jeffg
Thanks Vic and Ando. Hygroscopic it is. Boy...people will think I'm really smart when I start using the right word.
Posted by: Boit
I got rid of the wife...and she took the damn cat. My house is my shop now. I work on my bike in the nude sometimes. Isn't that a pretty image?
Posted by: rmxr
Hydroscope and hydroscope are both words.
Hydroscope:an instrument for detecting the
presence of water.
Hygrometer:an instrument formeasuring moisture in the atmosphere.
Scope or meter, depends on which dictionary you are using.
Posted by: vern#19
So I live in Washington where it rains a bit.Should I drive to the desert to bleed my brakes or just get a motel with AC ? http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/wink.gif
Posted by: WoodsRider
Okay, so Boit bleeds his brakes about twice a decade. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/biggrin.gif
Vern, you're going to have to wait until hell freezes over. http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/tongue.gif
Posted by: Boit
I've also discovered that if I play "Twisted Sister" really loud on my stereo, it gets all the air bubbles out of the brake lines. Hey, it got rid of the ex-wife too. Go figure.
I'm not gonna take it!...NO!...I ain't gonna take it!
Posted by: zsr
Isn't dot 5.1 (or is it 5.2?) supposed to be less prone to moisture than dot 4? Maybe that would be better in high humidity areas.
Anyone want my wife?
------------------
07
Posted by: DaddGoneMadd
I was told that DOT 5 fluid does not absorb water, but the downside is that air bubbles stay in suspension nearly forever.
My apologies- I just learned that DOT5.1 is entirely different than DOT5.
[This message has been edited by DaddGoneMadd (edited 03-21-2001).]
Posted by: Boit
zsr: Nope! Not me! I LOVE being single again! If I get married again, you have my permission to KICK ME SQUARE IN MY BUTT!
Posted by: Boit
Woodsrifer: I bled'em twice? Hummm.....my memory must be slipping away... http://dirtrider.net/ubb2/biggrin.gif
Text Version Home
vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2009,
Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final ©2000 - 2009
- Created by Stefan "Xenon" Kaeser
