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Fuel comparison..comments

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Posted by: MikeS

Rich and any other gurus,

 

It seems every few months a new fuel pops up to meet another demand

I am in the process of doing some real world tests with VP products and maybe some dyno work too (  I hope)

I am just curious as to what makes one better than the other for 2 and 4 stroke single cylinder engines.

           C12                 VP110               Ult 4              MR2                 DRT

RVP      7.3                  6.8                  9.66              8.41                 6.56
10%    131                  147                  122              127                 155
50%    194                  215                  150              157                 207
90%    228                  226                  219              217                 215
EP       233                  243                  266              240                 232

O2        0                     0                       0                  2.43%             4.9%
MON   108                  110                   92.2               102                 115
Lead   4.2                   4.3                    4.2                  6.0                 4.8

I will assume the RVP is higher with fuels that have a lower 10% range making them better for throttle response at slow speeds. When we are at race pace or just running hard does the 10% range need to be as critical and will the higher End Point be of a better benifit to fight detontation and cooling the piston?

Seems like the new Ultimate 4 fits both senarios as it has a low 10% range for good throttle response and a nice EP. I normally splash MR2 with some VP Red to raise the EP for Juniors constant ringing of the 85 and 125.

How about the O2 in the DRT fuel?.. Jet 2 more sizes higher than MR2 or is it too much O2?

 

Thanks in advance... too much snow gives the brain way too much time to dream this stuff up

 

 

 


Posted by: Studboy

Quote:
Originally posted by MikeS
... too much snow gives the brain way too much time to dream this stuff up  

   


 

I know exactly what you're talking about.....for the first time of my life I have been dreaming of C12 and MTBE !


Posted by: bclapham

live the dream!


Posted by: Studboy

Bruce, I have found C12 locally for $4.60 pumped, this is the same place that MX-727 gets his fuel, my question is how big of a difference am I going to be able to tell between fuel pumped (but in my sealed 5 gallon drum, I have one.) and between a fresh sealed 5 gallon of C12 if the C12 in the 55 gallon drum is not that old? The guy wants $7-8 a gallon to get me a sealed 5 gallon and he will have to order it in. As far as MTBE goes, you guys have me thinking that it is too dangerous?
I wish that I could find myself a source for Philips B35 oxygenated...


Posted by: MikeS

Hey Stud

I did the 55 gal thing once and then bought from a guy that used 15-20 gal a week. If the drum is more than a few weeks old, less than half full and is above 60 degrees in storage...be skeptical. It still worked better than pump but it lost that crispness once it sat around.

I happen to be on of those guys that cover the tank with a white (hotel) towel at the races and keep it wet with water before the race and after running until I get to drain the tank.

$32 - $38 for a sealed 5 of C12 is the average rate. If you have any NHRA races vearby VP usually sends a trailer and you can get good prices and a fresh supply.


Posted by: bclapham

yep, it all depends on how old it is and how well it is stored. In so cal there is a good turnover rate, so i think i can get away with it, especially since i add some of the volatile stuff, but we will see. give it a try, its definately worth it to save $3.00 a gal!

that reminds me, i had a big load of work dropped on me havent seen daylight in 3 weeks, went to the garage for the cat litter.....realised i forgot to drain the tank (or wash the bike), them lovely stickers are all bubbled up.


Posted by: Studboy

Bruce, do you really have problems with the stickers coming off your tank? My brother's PW80 stickers have been on there since 84...no bubles. This has me scared of when I get my YZ, I have never had to worry about tank graphics since my KX just has shrouds (perimeter frame). I'll have to go buy some more C12 and take a close look on the storage conditions and ask him how high of a turnover rate he has.
Our local drag strip "Rocky Mountain Raceway" doesn't hold very many NHRA sanctioned events... I am going to Las Vegas in april, and I may have to stalk up then!


Posted by: 2strok4fun

Bruce-

Where do you get "the volatile stuff"? Inside sourse I guess?

I had a source willing to sell to me at a reasonable price but when I was going to purchase, they balked.

Chris


Posted by: SFO

BTW, there is a dyno fuel review scheduled, with nutec special 4, special 5, and Phillips B35. we should have it in the next couple of weels...


Posted by: bedell99

No more B35, its called TT101 now. All the phillips fuel have a TT designation now according to there octanerating (B42 is tt105). They just banned B35 in Colorado cause it contained MTBE, damn corn lobbyists.


Posted by: MikeS

Got my skid of fuel in yesterday. I was suprised that the VP DRT fuel was labled no MTBE and it is 4.9 % oxygenated. I called for tech info but fridays are bad at the office....

Stuff really smells bad actually irritates the nose and eyes. Nothing like that sweet smell of MR2.

Tomorrow we will blend a batch and let Junior tear it up. I hope Eric got those new 150 kit pistons in stock just incase. I raised the needle 2 clips and the main from a 185 to a 200. Temps will be 20-25 degrees and a fresh set of studs...


Posted by: SFO

Quote:
Originally posted by bedell99
No more B35, its called TT101 now. All the phillips fuel have a TT designation now according to there octanerating (B42 is tt105). They just banned B35 in Colorado cause it contained MTBE, damn corn lobbyists.


Track Tech is the new name for CP race fuels.
BTW, I was told all of the cp fuels contain some level of mtbe content except for what was known as B25.

Here is a link to the new CP/TT fuels...

http://www.cpchem.com/fuels/products/racingfuels.asp


Posted by: bedell99

SFO I think you might have heard some wrong infomation. The only phillips fuel that contains MTBE was B35 now called TT101 respectively. The other oxygenated fuel phillips produces is B42 now called TT105. B42 contains ETBE(an ethanol based oxygenate whick is legal here in CO). All the other fuels are non-oxygenated race fuel, which conain neither MTBE or ETBE. I really enjoyed B35 and was forced this weekend to race with B42. As for B42 I couln't tell a difference, except is smells abnoxious and the price is a $1.60 more than B35. Duggins which is one of the largest suppliers of race gas in "country" told me that all MTBE will be outlawed in most of the country in the next 2 years. Is the true? I don't know, but the person saying this knows is gas. As for VP fuels I personally think MR2 is the best fuel out there for dirtbike applications, but it is just to darn expensive for the average motocrosser. Looking forward to the test results Mike S, especially with the MR2 and DRT comparison.

Erik


Posted by: SFO

Quote:
Originally posted by bedell99
SFO I think you might have heard some wrong infomation.
Erik


say it ain't so!
Wouldn't be the first time.


Posted by: bedell99

Thanks for that website SFO. It gives so much useful infoamtion about the ingredients in phillips fuels. Now I know wherre Rich gets his secret stash of knowledge.............ON THE INTERNET.

Erik


Posted by: Studboy

.....and we still keep it a secret as to where we get our secret stash of knowledge....from Rich! (And Eric, and Jeremy, and EVERYBODY that makes this board SOOOO awesome!!!) DRN is a motorcyclists best friend, without it I would still be running pump gas and my bike would still be a "spooge leaking mosquito fogger"!

So let me get this straight, is CP fuels still owned by Philips or what? I am confused!


Posted by: MikeS

Well we ran the DRT at a local arenacross in a EG 150 TM.

We got alot of strange looks from riding a TM and the stink of the fuel plus the raising of the front wheel on every full twist of the throttle

Ran clean and made power very close to MR2. Temps were cool 42 and humidity was high 90%+. As the day went along the air dried out some.
Plug readings are fine and I will check piston crown tonite.

I will try the CMP mix next as it is based on C12 with the extra O2.
Pricing is close or less than MR2.



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