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Brown mtn. ride

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Posted by: flynbryan

We are heading out to Brown Mtn. next weekend on the 24th. Anyone interested in coming along? BScottr? Haven't heard from ya in a while? Ocechap does your son have a soccer game that weekend? Whyzee? Anyone thats interested just drop a response here, or you team turtle guys can reply there if you like.


Posted by: truespode

Not gonna make it. Opening weekend for the JMX series.

Have fun guys.

Ivan


Posted by: whyzee

24th may be a possibility. 31st no way. Ivan, does this mean you have the schedule?


Posted by: truespode

Nope. I just know that on the website it says that the 24th will be the opener.

Ivan


Posted by: flynbryan

Sounds good Dave, let me know if something comes up. Good luck at the races Ivan. :thumb:


Posted by: bscottr

Ya know.......I'd love too. BUT it seems everytime you pick the weekend for Brown I have another wedding to go to.

Between work and all of these extra curricular activities my riding time has really suffered this spring. I’m thinking we need to organize a June ride. Parsons, Brown, Brushy Mountain? Matters not….but lead time seems essential. I’ve noticed that team turtle may have some other rides scheduled, but I have problem stringing together 563 emails to decipher where.


Posted by: James

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr
but I have problem stringing together 563 emails to decipher where.


I have that problem occassionally.

The 24th is the first day of the MX season (supposedly) so that is where some of us will be.

I like the idea of a June trail fest especially if it is on a weekday in the later half of the month.

Is Brown open? I thought they were closing the place and paving the road somewhere about now??


Posted by: whyzee

Quote:
Originally posted by James
The 24th is the first day of the MX season (supposedly) so that is where some of us will be.

Where are you guys getting the 24th information and what is the venue? The site schedule shows nothing past the 17th???
http://jmxracing.com/schedule.asp

Quote:
I like the idea of a June trail fest especially if it is on a weekday in the later half of the month.

Me too, just name the place. Maybe Manchester?


Posted by: truespode

When you click on the spring race schedule you go here...

http://jmxracingcom.mavweb.net/schedule.asp

At the top it says (3rd line down)...

Quote:
The 10 Race Summer series starts May 24th at Shelby. Other races TBA.


Ivan


Posted by: whyzee

Thank you, I'm blind! I kept looking at the sequential dates and scratching my head?! I won't make Shelby races.


Posted by: flynbryan

*drool in corner of mouth* :confused:..........Oooooo.......Manchester..........I'm in definately! We just need to set up a time. I'm more of a weekend type guy though as Manchester is about 2_1/2hr. for me. As stated before, I'm also game for Brown Mtn., Uwharrie, but Brushy maybe an issue.....Mad Mark was there a week ago, and he said they are very strict about sound/spark arrester checks. I'm checking into a quiet core insert, and a spark arrestor end cap, but don't have anything yet. Some of you guys probably don't have spark arrestors/quiet exhaust either? Also if its anywhere other than Manchester my Fiance' would like to come as well as probably her cousins. I'm pretty much game for whatever, lets just set up a date and ride.


Posted by: flynbryan

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr
Ya know.......I'd love too. BUT it seems everytime you pick the weekend for Brown I have another wedding to go to.


Geez Scott I hope these aren't all your children's weddings, if so your gonna have to sell the bike and pick up a third job just to pay for them all Anyway have a good time, and like we stated above we'll get a ride going in far advance so that you guys can have earlier notice. We are definately still going to Brown Mtn. though for any that can make it, and would like to come.


Posted by: bscottr

I'm thinking we should do the Friday (James :thumb: ) and Saturday deal. Friday at Parsons Mt. and Saturday at TNT or something similar. Parsons brings back some good memories from last year.

There's this goober bastage that MADE me go out on the track at TNT. I got at least 6" of air a few times and now I'm liking this airborne stuff a little. We even went sneeking over to the intermediate track and had a blast. Still like trees.


Posted by: James

The only reason I suggest the weekday is that Brown Mountain and Uwharrie are like a zoo on the weekends. I am pretty much open to anything though and can even skip a race at Shelby for a good trail ride get together.

I am a bit hooked on the airborne stuff myself.


Posted by: flynbryan

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr


There's this goober bastage that MADE me go out on the track at TNT

Watch out for him Scott heres a very persuasive man!!! :scream: I seem to remeber being talked out onto the track by a very similar man......

Quote:
Still like trees.


Thats what I'm talkin about. No news on the trail renovations at TNT I guess? I seem to not get any answers for that one.......


Posted by: bscottr

Quote:
Originally posted by flynbryan
No news on the trail renovations at TNT I guess? I seem to not get any answers for that one.......

So, you want the trail update? OK....here it is.

First - Let me say I HATE folks that just root up the trails on 4 wheelers with no care as to how much work it takes to repair the damage.

Second - If the ground even looks damp and it’s clay based, 4 wheelers should be not allowed on the trails. Ask the folks from SCORE how much trail damage occurred this past year.

Third – Every trail system that allows ATVs should have a dedicated area off the trails for those bastages to play in.

Fourth - TNT had some very nice trails. Still do, but it will take mucho work to get them back in shape.

Fifth - If you want excellent practice in ATV size bog holes and very heavily rutted trails, go to TNT.

We rode the entire trail system at TNT a few times two weeks ago and I was surprised by the condition of the trails. I was even more surprised at all the new alternate lines made by ATVs to get around the damaged areas. In some places it was difficult to stay on the right trail because they have created shortcuts to other trails.

At first I wasn’t happy about the situation, then I started getting into it. Stumpy and I put in some decent miles rut ridin’ and had a good time overall. I'll just say that you can have a great time on those trails if you know what to expect.


Did I mention I hate negligent ATVers?


Posted by: flynbryan

I agree Scott, but I do believe that its just not right to shut out ALL atvs. Its true that there are quite a few of them out there that just don't care about the property, or what it takes to maintain it. But if we shut out atvs all together then my fiance' who is very concious, and not at all destructive is not allowed to ride w/ me. Unfortunately that will also mean that a great deal of my time, and money would be spent at other places than that location. Also too I do realize that you know not all of them are like that, hence your "I hate NEGLIGENT atvs" quote. Its just a shame that as usual the non-respectful minority usually ruins it for the majority.


Posted by: bscottr

Quote:
Originally posted by flynbryan
I agree Scott, but I do believe that its just not right to shut out ALL atvs.

There is only one situation when I feel it is appropriate to "shut 'em out". That is when the conditions on a clay based trail system is such that damage is very likely to occur. I also feel there should be a dedicated "rooting" area where these folks could play and do all the damage they want. In other words a dedicated ATV bog area off the trail system.

On public trails ATVers have just as much right to be there as I, but the damage caused by ATVs is far greater than that of a bike in most cases.

You sound like you are either an ATVer at heart or you are looking out for your best interest. :thumb:


Posted by: truespode

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr
a dedicated ATV bog area off the trail system.


I doubt too many public areas will allow that.

There are too many problems by allowing an area that can be used just for mud-bogging. The environmentalists would have a field day with that. I doubt the public agencies over the trail systems want to deal with that.

The best we can hope for is to educate the riders more and get them more involved.

Ivan


Posted by: bscottr

Quote:
Originally posted by Truespode
I doubt too many public areas will allow that....There are too many problems by allowing an area that can be used just for mud-bogging.

Such as?

Now I’m not suggesting some miles-long dedicated area. I’m referring to a relatively small area of approximately 1-3 acres that is easily accessed by authorities responsible for the trail system. If it was “sold” in such a way that damage to trails systems will decrease, it seems to me it would be an easy sell. Also the funds required to repair the trails could then be diverted into expansion and/or improvements.

Additionally, how often do you find a dirt biker willing to “fight” for an additional place for ATVers to play? The bottom line is that if they don’t have a place to bog off the trails, they will bog on the trails.

Quote:
The environmentalists would have a field day with that.

Maybe. However, if we can bulldoze trees and build anything at all near wetlands, streams, etc., we can certainly address environmentalists’ issues. The same dedicated area could be managed for runoff, sediment control, and erosion, etc. by the use of buffer strips and sediment control techniques just as they do anywhere else where this is a concern.

Again, it seems a relatively easy sale to have a dedicated area for use when conditions for severe trail damage exist. Seems as though we give them more room to complain by not doing what we can to prevent the damage.

Quote:
I doubt the public agencies over the trail systems want to deal with that.

Are you suggesting they would rather deal with a problem that is spread across many miles of trails?

What was the length of delay in opening most upstate public trails this year and what was the reason(s)? Did it have anything to do with trail damage from last year and trying to prevent additional damage during a wet spring? This would be an extension of their management resources.

Quote:
The best we can hope for is to educate the riders more and get them more involved.

When did someone invent a “Viagra like” pill to enhance the performance of an ATVer’s brain? I guess I missed that public announcement. :silly:


Ivan,
My bitch isn’t with you and I know your words are based on experience with SCORE and other groups. There’s just a time when we have to say enough is enough with the PC bull**** and just do the right thing. :thumb:


Posted by: truespode

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr
Ivan,
My bitch isn’t with you and I know your words are based on experience with SCORE and other groups. There’s just a time when we have to say enough is enough with the PC bull**** and just do the right thing. :thumb:


I agree completely but dealing in the reality of the situation we are lucky enough as it is in SC to have re-opened the trails we have. One day I will discuss with you some of the battles we have had with the public agencies regarding land use.

Motorized recreation is not a priority in SC for the public agencies and if they had their druthers they would close all areas down. Fortunately we have had enough people fighting (including getting some legal help) to get some things done.

It is possible that we can accomplish some things but you would really be dissappointed to see how our voices are heard. Heck in many of the public meetings anymore oral comments are no longer allowed... everything must be done in writing and the organizers are allowed to do as they please. They say that public input is important but of all the meetings and of all the letters I have written the only time I've gotten anything done is when I have carbon copied legislators or the paper.

I could go on and on but the PC stuff has us by the nads right now and it is infuriating at times b/c the right thing is not being done. By federal law 30% of the off-highway tax revenue is supposed to go to OHV projects and if no project is presented it is up to RTP to make one. They have taken the 30% and tried to keep it away from OHV'ers. There was even a SLED investigation recently when they wanted to boot us out of the program together but fortunately the federal overseers saw through the lies. That investigation caused the RTP funds to be suspended for a year and now they are back up but the entire RTP grant system is up for review in the federal gov't either this year or next. Depending on the economy and a few other factors the RTP legislation will be skimmed over and changes that hurt OHV'ers will be put in place.

I need to stop b/c I'm getting flustered

Anyway, I see your point and agree 100% but in reality I do not see it happening

Ivan


Posted by: James

I kinda feel like if it is still legal and EPA acceptable to run a land fill, it should be possible to have a 1 acre mud bog. How is this any different than a tractor pull as far as environmental impact?

Of course, I know better than to expect common sense out of politicians and envirowhackos.


Posted by: bscottr

Ivan,
Do you think sending a link to this thread to the SCORE membership would help the issue get exposure? I sent a letter to SCORE sometime back concerning this topic, but I didn't get feedback or acknowledgement. I know SCORE has bigger fish to fry and is doing so…..thank goodness. :thumb:

Thanks to you for a level headed discussion on the topic as well.

James,
Point! X 2


Brian,
And you thought this thread was about Brown Mountain?!


Posted by: flynbryan

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr

You sound like you are either an ATVer at heart or you are looking out for your best interest.


You got me........ :o I'm not an Atver at heart, but I do have a fiance' who is. Most of the time that means that if she can't ride I probably will not ride there as well. After much persuasion I have tried to talk my significant other into the ways of the two wheeled arts.......she just won't come over to the light side. It just really ticks me off that there are so many atv people that trash stuff up for the bikers as well as the respectfull atvers. As I'm sure you could figure out, my fiance' usually feels uncomfortable riding w/ dirtbikers other than myself because of this disposition that most of us have towards atv guys. I think this probably carries over from another thread, but I think that one solution to this problem(the greater destructive qualities of atvs that is) would be to either have atvs stay off of the trails when conditions are wet and sloppy, or have everyone stay off of them all together when the conditions are questionable.....any other thoughts?


Posted by: flynbryan

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr

Brian,
And you thought this thread was about Brown Mountain?!

Not a problem Scott. I think this is an issue that has been coming to a head for a while now. It definately needs to be discussed. Its also been answering some questions I've had for a while now anyway. So maybe we can change this thread to......"problems w/atvers and public/private land issues...."


Posted by: bscottr

Quote:
Originally posted by flynbryan
As I'm sure you could figure out, my fiance' usually feels uncomfortable riding w/ dirtbikers other than myself because of this disposition that most of us have towards atv guys.

Brian,
Just so we are on the same page......when we ride together your fiancée is always welcome as far as I concerned. :thumb:

Now, I just hope she will extend me the same welcome.


Posted by: High Lord Gomer

Quote:
Originally posted by bscottr
Now, I just hope she will extend me the same welcome.
Only until she gets to know you!

BTW, there is a reason you have to get married so often, but I don't want to hurt your feelings by telling it here in public.


Posted by: High Lord Gomer

Oh yeah...about the mudbog...

It has helped A LOT at TNT to have a dedicated area where those that want to can flounder around in 3 feet of mud. I think a properly bordered and marked area would work even on government/public land, especially if the signage was there to spell out the reason for it being there was to decrease damage to the rest of the trail system.


Posted by: bscottr

Quote:
Originally posted by High Lord Gomer
Only until she gets to know you!

Talk about leaving a mark!




Posted by: truespode

Quote:
Originally posted by High Lord Gomer
especially if the signage was there to spell out the reason for it being there was to decrease damage to the rest of the trail system.


I agree. However, right now we are still waiting on word from the FS about the signage we want to put in place saying "do not ride off trail" but b/c they have certain standards on how things have to be worded, what type of lettering, where to put it, etc. we have not heard back.

When you start talking about signage you bring in all sorts of red tape. It blows the mind!

The idea is common sense but to actually get it approved on public land is another story.

Ivan


Posted by: flynbryan

Scott your always welcome to my partys.


Posted by: truespode

Quote:
Originally posted by flynbryan
So maybe we can change this thread to......"problems w/atvers and public/private land issues...."


If you are interested you can go to www.scohv.org and click on the join link. In there you will find a link to subscribe to the SCORE public e-mail list.

We could use your input.

Ivan


Posted by: flynbryan

Once I get a minute away from these basements I'll do that. Thanks Ivan.



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