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Klotz R-50 TEAR DOWN 45HRS

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Posted by: bigred455

Posted: Jan 10 2004, 11:51 PM






Motor:03 KX250 Head mod and a few ports moved around, Boyesen Pro Series reeds
Klotz R-50 40:1 AV GAS 100LL JETTED ON THE MARK.. MX only ridden at ORV Chaddsworth, Blue Diamond, and Seaford, DE.

As some of you know, I am a big fan of Maxima 927 (castor based with synthetic) The KX250 PORT layout especially on the intake side is a little aggressive. The intake side of the piston below the bottom ring and in line with the ring locating pins both sides likes to leave light vertical scratches on the piston, this is not dirt related - trust me on this. The only oil that I have seen eliminate this is the 927. The 927 is excellent at lubricating and would be my oil of choice, but the main and sub powervalves are time consuming to strip because of the hard, baked on carbon wedged between the valves and chamber. The KX's well, 03 and past, do not have a breather line for the power valve chamber. This just compounds the carbon even more. YZ's and RM's would be easier to strip. Lubrication is top priority then cleanliness, if a oil keeps the valves, head, and piston ring groove fairly clean that is fine and dandy, but if lubrication is in question, what good is it?Everyone is so concerned about how clean their motor is with a certain oil, they rate that oil on cleanliness alone. I too like to have my powervalves drop right out and the head with light or no build up along with the piston, but to have both lubrication and a fairly clean motor is a great combination.

The KLOTZ R-50 line is synthetic ester (not castor based like their other oils. These are my findings.
I am not a Klotz dealer I have nothing to gain or lose from my comments. I will give measurements first, then my visual inspection. The R-50 was used exclusively after a fresh top end and also broken in with it.

Wrist pin dia: 17.99mm standard is 17.995-18mm / service is 17.96.
Ring thickness: .97mm standard is .970mm-.985 / service is.90mm.
Piston ring groove width: 1.02 standard is 1.01-1.03mm / service is 1.11mm.
Ring end gap:.51mm(.020in) standard is .35-.55mm (.014in-.0215) / service is.90mm (.0335in) Woooooooooooooooooo.
Piston dia : 66.33mm standard 66.336-66.351mm / service is 66.23mm.
Rod big end side clearance(.020in) standard (.018-.022 in) service/ is .027in.
Side clearance was .(020) Last tear down also.

As you can see the numbers look great I could have gone another 15 hrs . I have it apart so you know the deal!!!!

The main valve pulled right out no carbon at all wedged inbetween the valve and chamber . There was a smidgen of carbon I mean very little at the valve end sides not in the center portion,It was not hard at all I scraped it off with my finger nail.The valves were also very well lubricated nice coating of oil,In fact the subs slid out very smoothly just as the main valve. The rest of the valve and the sub valves were just discolored (CARAMEL COLOR) I put them on my bench grinder with a very fine wire brush, PIECE OF CAKE!!! The teeth on the subs also had a nice coating of oil between them, some of the teeth did have slight carbon build up nothing drastic, the teeth spaces are very narrow. I am very happy with the stripping of the valves and the medium clean up. The head was just discolored, The piston had carbon on the crown very light, looked normal .I did have slight blowby on both sides of the piston above the wrist pin and on the right side of the exhaust. I pulled my pipe after a few hrs after the new top end and seen the slight blow by on the exhaust side it looked the same when I tore it down 40 hrs later. I will venture off and say I had the blow by from the break in period. The crank halves had a very good and sufficient layer of oil on them when rotating I just loved the way this oil was being picked up. I was riding pretty hard my last ride before I shut down, I probably idled in about 10 seconds so 40:1 with the R-50 IS MORE THAN SUFFICIENT did I mention I like the way this oil layers the crank?. The thrust washers were moving very freely and the rod itself looks like it has been getting lubricating with oil, has kind of a rich color to it. The piston on the intake side looked great no vertical scratches what more can I say. As you can see I have a fetish with oils. Hope you enjoy!

Keith 455.
"LET'S JUST RIDE"


Posted by: ericlachance

I also use R-50 ever since I got my bike last spring. I took the top end apart a few weeks ago, and loved what I saw. very little wear, no carbon build-up what so ever. slightly discoloured head and piston and well lubed crank and pv. Well worth the price. hey, i notice you didn't mention the smell. Stuff smells good too.


Posted by: TheJunkMan

I use it exclusively in my 97 Gas Gas mixed at 80:1w/C12 and I have not torn it down yet but I am shure it will be relatively clean considering the age.


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally posted by ericlachance
I also use R-50 ever since I got my bike last spring. I took the top end apart a few weeks ago, and loved what I saw. very little wear, no carbon build-up what so ever. slightly discoloured head and piston and well lubed crank and pv. Well worth the price. hey, i notice you didn't mention the smell. Stuff smells good too.
.

Eric it does smell good,being burned and out of the bottle,I even rubbed the oil off the crank with my finger and it smelled like it does right out of the bottle.I really do not care what a oil smells like,but it is nice to smell!


Posted by: Studboy

I used to run that oil in my bike. I noticed the same thing that you did about the crank... I don't know if its the color of the oil or what but the crank seemed to be coated a lot better than other oils that I have seen.


Posted by: Replay13

Very good and well written test, thanks Keith for taking the time to share your findings with us.
Replay


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally posted by Replay13
Very good and well written test, thanks Keith for taking the time to share your findings with us.
Replay
.......

Again,thank you for the kind reply! I more thing the 04 piston is now tinplated and streaked to retain more oil. HA!


Posted by: fatherturtle

Do you guys foul lots of spark plugs with this oil. I run R50 and I seem to foul plugs on my 03 kx 250. I ran ams oil for a month and never had a problem. Bike will foul out the plug on start up. I have two other friends with the same bike with the same problem. We all changed oil for a month and problem cleared. Went back to r50 again because of lubrication properties.


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherturtle
Do you guys foul lots of spark plugs with this oil. I run R50 and I seem to foul plugs on my 03 kx 250. I ran ams oil for a month and never had a problem. Bike will foul out the plug on start up. I have two other friends with the same bike with the same problem. We all changed oil for a month and problem cleared. Went back to r50 again because of lubrication properties.
....

I wen't 45hrs with a new br8eix on my 250 did not foul once using the r-50 . This oil was made to run hard ,try adjusting your jetting . I do not know what type of riding you do,but if you trail ride this oil is does not fit that application.


Posted by: 02'Cr Rider

bigred455,What have you found in oil that works best for trail riding?Looking for something thats burns good and clean.

Thanks


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02'Cr Rider
bigred455,What have you found in oil that works best for trail riding?Looking for something thats burns good and clean.

Thanks
.......

For 1 thing low flashpoint oils are good for a clean burn if the combustion chamber does not see high temps,but that is not the only factor.The whole oil make-up has to be considered also. I really do not want to give you a specific brand on what oil to use for your application there are so many,I will tell you though yamalube 2 r comes to mind when I ran it a few years back.You can do a search on here, there is a lot of oil topics.You can also visits Klotz web site they have other oils that suit your application,they have a pretty easy to read chart on there oils. Remember just because a oil is clean does not mean it is a good oil. You have to find a good balance and the r-50 did it for me.I have piston pics of a so called excellent oil compared to the klotz r-50 I ran it 50:1 like recommended sure it was very clean,but it did not even come close lubricating wise. I was going to post the pics here,but I do not wan't any grief with another oil war.


Posted by: fatherturtle

I do a combo of riding. I mostly trailer my bike to the MX track. Every now and then I will do some trails. When I run trails I run by bike hard. Once the engine is warm it will run for the rest of the day. I never jetted a bike before and I am afraid of burning down my bike. Have you had any problems with your 03 kx? I seem to tear pistons up in my 03 kx. I want more power out of my bike. I am thinking about a fmf pipe but I don't want to soak too much more money into my bike.


Posted by: elf

Fatherturtle, I use yamalube 2r in my kids bikes with unleaded pump gas. after a full season of mostly play riding we tore the motors down. the tops of the piston, the head , exaust ports were all spotless.I am not saying this is the best oil but sounds like it would be good for your application.


Posted by: fatherturtle

I run this oil because all the mechanics and racers I know sware by this oil. They say it saves your bottom end. I used to run golden spectro and they shuned me. I know I shouldn't listen to everything I hear but they are the experts. I think it is cheaper to replace plugs than replace bearings on my bottom end.


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherturtle
I do a combo of riding. I mostly trailer my bike to the MX track. Every now and then I will do some trails. When I run trails I run by bike hard. Once the engine is warm it will run for the rest of the day. I never jetted a bike before and I am afraid of burning down my bike. Have you had any problems with your 03 kx? I seem to tear pistons up in my 03 kx. I want more power out of my bike. I am thinking about a fmf pipe but I don't want to soak too much more money into my bike.
........

The problems I have had are:
After 40 hrs I chipped the oem reeds(bottom right corner)

The kicker wears out at the knuckle (hits the pipe in the rest position)I put some jb weld on the knuckle to stop it earlier.I will see if it holds up.My 00 did not wear at all. They have a new knuckle for 04 HA!!!!!!!!!!

Shock shaft at the very bottom had a missing area where the plating process didn't adhere(kayaba's wrong).

I cracked the aluminum spacer that is welded onto the subframe where the silencer mounts.

What do you mean by, you keep on tearing up pistons?I wen't through 2 top ends, regular tear down they look good.

I ordered a 04 piston it will be in this week,They tin plated and streaked it for 04 to retain more oil. I am pretty sure the dimensions are the same I will measure the crown and skirt and locating pins to make sure. If you are interested let me know. Boyesen pro series will make the motor come off the bottom better,builds rpms a little quicker,but smooth.


Posted by: fatherturtle

Thanks for your reply. I have a bad kicker and a broken spacer also. Its kind of funny the same thing happened to me. I had a defective air filter and scarred up the piston. I had it honed and bought a weisco piston. I flew off the race track and fell into a 4 ft mud pit and drove out of it. I was told water got into my engine and scarred up my piston and cylinder. I had my cylinder replated at milleniums and my bike has been fine ever since. I am not sure about getting water into my cylinder but that it what Weisco is claiming on the piston and cylinder. Bike ran fine after I pushed it out of the pit.I am pretty leary on revving the snott out of my bike now. I really don't believe the water problem. I usually run it in a lower gear now. I am intrested in the tin plated piston. I hope the piston dosn't flake after a while. How many hours do you tear down your top end. I have about 15 hours on my piston now. I am thinking about replacing the rings. Do they have a beef up on the kicker.


Posted by: ericlachance

I'vw been on the same br8eix for at least 20 hours without a problem yet


Posted by: ironworker

I went to Klotz web site and checked up on the oils recommended by Klotz for 2 stroke motorcycle engines and the R50 wasnt even in there basic applications. i did find the following for 2 strokes:
1.Motorcycle Techniplate TC-W2
2.Motorcycle Techniplate TC-W3
3.50:1 2-Stroke Techniplate TC-W3
Like BIGRED55 said this oil is not for trail riding.
R50 APPLICATION:
Motorcycle/ATV – Hi-performance Racing 10K RPM+
Snowmobile – Drag Racing, Snow Cross 9500 RPM+
PWC – Racing 10K RPM+
Kart/Micro Sprint – Hi-performance, Racing 10K RPM+
R/C Modeling – Boats 25-30K RPM

thanks again for all the info bigred55


Posted by: bigred455

Your welcome Iron Worker. Thanks for the Thanks!!


Posted by: fatherturtle

Awesome I wish I would have went to the klotz site to see that info. Bigred55 let me know about the tin piston.


Posted by: bigred455

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherturtle
Awesome I wish I would have went to the klotz site to see that info. Bigred55 let me know about the tin piston.
......

We are good to go on the 04 piston everything measures out the same as the 03.I broke it in today and going hammering tomorrow. The 04 piston has a very dull gray look to it, You can clearly see the difference. I will get back after 50 hrs and give a report.If you want a 04 piston in replace for the 03 go for it!!!!!!!


Posted by: joereitman

So the Klotz is synthetic; I wonder if the synthetic Mobil MX2T I have run in my 03 KX since I got it has similar characteristics?



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