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Your opinion on KDub getting 10 point penalty

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Posted by: oldguy

AMA has decided to penalize Windham 10 points for the collision with Vuillemin at Phoenix last week. How do you feel about it?


Posted by: BSWIFT

I voted for the 1st choice but I really think it is not my call. The AMA made the ruling. If the AMA felt it was deliberate and assessed a penalty, so be it. I saw it again today in the replay and it "appeared" to me to be deliberate. DV refused comment but KDub was talking the talk. He also has appealed.


Posted by: rickyd

I say let them battle it out


Posted by: KDX'r in IN

I say fine and dock DV. He should have braked.

Actually I say let it go. What's next taking out the whoops and rythym sections because they are to dangerous and may injure a rider. Give me a break


Posted by: joereitman

4th choice. :D


Posted by: motohead00

Not a place for me to actually vote my opinion, so I just selected let them play chicken.


Posted by: MWEISSEN

Kdub's move was no worse than Dave V's, and I've seen worse.  Do me it looked like Windham was ahead and Davie hit him.....


Posted by: WaltCMoto

After watching the replay today, DV could have backed off and lost the position. He decided to play chicken, and lost the battle. If you leave the door open, you gotta expect someone to come in low. And BTW, DV t-boned Kdub, then bounced off the track.


Posted by: slideways11

The only cheap shot here is the AMA taking away 10 points from Kdub. It ruins the whole deal if Kevin wins the championship and then has it taken away from him for some minor infraction. Not only does it ruin it for Kevin it will definatley be a tainted championship for the person who gets it in this manner. I have always said the AMA does a great job with amatuer racing but they should get out of the supercross series.


Posted by: marcusgunby

At work , if you are warned about your conduct and you fail to change, you get sacked, you expect that after a warning? its the same deal, they were warned, KW ignored it and got points knocked off, if the AMA did nothing, then riders would ignore all future warnings like KW, now they will not.


Posted by: Okiewan

There are no choices for, it wasn't deliberate, just racing. Considering that KDUB isn't known for that, by any stretch, I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt... until it happens again.


Posted by: danielst

I think that contact was intended... but I also think that they are big boys and should settle it amongst themselves. I do find it ironic that with all the guys out there who race rough routinely, it would be KDub to be the first to get a points penalty when he is one of the cleanest.


Posted by: marcusgunby

Was one of the cleanest.


Posted by: JuliusPleaser

Docking KW 10 points was a bone-headed move. I'd bet big $$ that Fuzzy wishes he could take it back.


Posted by: Jon K.

I ain't backing down now, but we all know how the poll will go.

Did anyone note the beauty of the race today between CR, KW, and DV? Lots of respect, no contact (or at least not much), and the riders were "dancing" back and forth. High / Low, In / Out, back and forth.

A true thing of beauty. Made my hair stand up. Brough tears to my eyes. (Well, almost!) Now THAT was racing!

Then CR checked out, and it was pretty much over. Perhaps the attitude has shifted just a bit? To the betterment of the sport. IMHO.


Posted by: Tree

I voted for #3 but I don't think it was deliberate. KW probablly thought DV would brake and give up the spot but hey, that's racing. If they didn't like it they should have black flagged him not let him win and dock the points.

I think a fine would have been enough if after the race they decided they didn't like the move.


Posted by: MrMXer327

No place for me to cast my vote

I believe Kdub intened on taking DV's line away just like DV did the corner earlier... and I believe K-dub thought DV would back off just like he did one corner prior.
Watch the replay and think of how that first corner would have played out if K-dub would not have backed off the gas. Someone would have been sampling soil just as in turn 3.


Posted by: Chili

I like Bubba's comments on the A2 broadcast when RonRon takes out Nate ramsey in the heat race "10 points"


Posted by: nikki

None of the above for me.

I don't think there was any "deliberate" take-out move on K-Dub's part. K-Dub took a line inside of DV, DV didn't shut off or brake therefore, DV t-boned K-Dub, and DV crashed. I am FURIOUS with AMA's decision to dock K-Dub any points. Especially when DV used K-Dub as a berm in the turn before. If K-Dub didn't shut off in the turn before, he woulda been the one getting parked by DV. And DV whined that "K-Dub coulda broke my ankle/leg" well if you look at the frame-by-frame photos, K-Dub was the one at risk of getting a leg injury on behalf of DV in both turns. The frame-by-frame photos seem so obvious that it was all DV that it isn't even funny. What a joke!

Here are some shots of the incident (of DV t-boning K-Dub) from MotoNews:

http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/files/131225-1.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/files/131226-2.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...waitaminute.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/files/131230-4.jpg

Another angle:

http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/files/131235-5.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/files/131237-6.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...nneyjones02.jpg

And DV using K-Dub as a berm in the turn before:

http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...347-dvpass2.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...350-dvpass3.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...353-dvpass4.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...355-dvpass5.jpg
http://www.motonews.com/mototalk2/f...356-dvpass6.jpg

My opinion - DV shoulda been docked 20 points (10 for each of these moves). You make the call!


Posted by: nikki

K-Dub in a RacerX interview with Ping:

Ping: "You are probably sick of hearing about it, but what are your thoughts on the altercation with Vuillemin?"

K-Dub: "Yeah, it sucks that this win is kind of clouded over by all of this. My opinion is that he made an aggressive block pass on me in the second turn, where we actually made contact and I had to almost come to a stop to not hit him. So, in the next turn I went inside of him and made a block pass on him, only he didn't let off the gas and ran into me and fell. I had no intention of taking him out when I went into that corner. You know as a racer that there's a lot of adrenaline pumping on the first lap and you have to be aggressive and try to get to the front. Plus, he left the inside wide open. After you make a block pass on somebody, you have to expect that they are going to try to pass you back, especially on the first lap when everyone is close together."


Posted by: HiG4s

Had Kdub blocked RC instead of DV popular opinion would probably want the death penalty instead of 10 points. Of course Kdub wouldn't have had the guts to do that to RC.


Posted by: Chili

Quote:
Originally posted by HiG4s
Had Kdub blocked RC instead of DV popular opinion would probably want the death penalty instead of 10 points. Of course Kdub wouldn't have had the guts to do that to RC.


Nonsense, RC woulda shut it down to avoid the turf and then put K-Dub on the turf a few turns later


Posted by: super rat

Then got Booooed for it.


Posted by: JuliusPleaser

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon K.
I ain't backing down now
I would lose all respect for you if you did. You're still wrong, though.


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally posted by nikki
The frame-by-frame photos seem so obvious that it was all DV that it isn't even funny. What a joke!

My opinion - DV shoulda been docked 20 points (10 for each of these moves). You make the call!


Hey Nikki; Don;t hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel!


Posted by: JuliusPleaser

Don't get between Nikki and Kevin. You're taking your life into your hands.


Posted by: Jon K.

I do have these suicidal tendencies from time to time; I seem to remember a photo . . . . hmmm . . . . what was it? Oh yeah; here it is;


Posted by: Okiewan

Quote:
Originally posted by Jon K.
I do have these suicidal tendencies from time to time; I seem to remember a photo . . . . hmmm . . . . what was it? Oh yeah; here it is;





Posted by: Ol'89r

I voted for option #5. :confused:

5. That's racin' and the AMA should get their heads out of their butts.

I agree with nikki. It was only a payback for what DV did in turn two. DV had the option of shutting off and didn't. It was as much his fault as KW's.

What the AMA did was cast a big question mark over the rest of the season.


Posted by: nikki

Don't get me wrong... I am and still will be a DV fan. But looking at the hard evidence, I see no way that K-Dub was at complete fault. And DV, just like any basketball player who throws himself on the floor all dramatic to draw a charging foul, did the same in this case. Maybe DV was really convinced that it was K-Dub's fault in the moment, but I can't possibly believe he can look back and think the same. Hopefully he thinks "damn maybe I coulda shut off and tucked inside since my bike was pointed that way". And I could see if DV was at major risk to get injured but (1) he barely went off the track and (2) he got back going in last place and passed up to 7th. I'm just angry and keep hoping the -10 decision for K-Dub will be reversed.


Posted by: muddy226

I voted #1 because they were warned about rough riding prior to this event. It' just a shame that Kdub was the one made an example of, but he should have known better, and the AMA may well have seen it as much a challenge to their authority as a challenge on DV. KW was coming from behind, and ended up in DVs line, which he couldn't have done without either going through DV, or DV backing off. I don't think the man in front should feel obliged to back off at the risk of being hit.  Anyhow, its a pity that Mike Brown isn't quick enough to have been there instead of Kevin.


Posted by: Zoomer

Old Guy you didn't leave me a correct choice. I dont think it was deliberate at all. There was enough room to drive a truck through going into that corner. If DV couldn't see it coming he's blind. Back off, go inside and pin it, he still probably would of been in first. His mistake, especialy since he did the same move in the first corner. That looked more deliberate to me. just because your buddy jumped in front of the train to stop it, doesn't mean you have to try it!


Posted by: oldguy

Yea I was poor in wording the poll. I meant to put the choice that it wasn't deliberate.
I really believe that DV was more flagrantly aiming the turn before. Kdub was faster in the corner where DV went off the track. Kdub was pulling a perfectly legal (IMHO) block pass and DV had more then enough room/time to avoid contact.


Posted by: nephron

Quote:
What the AMA did was cast a big question mark over the rest of the season.


I agree.


Posted by: JuliusPleaser

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomer
Old Guy you didn't leave me a correct choice. I dont think it was deliberate at all. There was enough room to drive a truck through going into that corner. If DV couldn't see it coming he's blind. Back off, go inside and pin it, he still probably would of been in first. His mistake, especialy since he did the same move in the first corner. That looked more deliberate to me. just because your buddy jumped in front of the train to stop it, doesn't mean you have to try it!
Spoken like a racer.


Posted by: slideways11

The AMA are making up the rules as they go. WHERE does it say they can take away 10 points for a little contact. They are just using Kevin to set an example. Once again the AMA has botched it bad!


Posted by: oldguy

I really also hate to see another season tainted by a debatable champ. If the penalty withstands the appeal and Reed beats Kdub by 10 points or less it will make many people questioning the legitimacy of MX/SX series. After an incomplete season in MX in which the outcome could have been changed by one more race then throw a champ who wins by default into the books every season will end up with some type of asterisk


Posted by: MWEISSEN

I just don't see the AMA backing down on appeal, even though I think that the collision was unintentional.  I think the AMA is more interested in saving face and making sure the message of cleaner racing is being sent to all of the racers.

Someone said earlier that the race last weekend was excellent, and one of the cleanest rides in awhile.  I agree it was clean, but I'm not sure if it's because of the AMA thing, or because it was one of the most hotly contested races in awhile.  It seems that we've had such total domination by McGrath, then Carmichael, maybe we've all forgotten what a close race really looks like.


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally posted by MWEISSEN

Someone said earlier that the race last weekend was excellent, and one of the cleanest rides in awhile.  I agree it was clean, but I'm not sure if it's because of the AMA thing, or because it was one of the most hotly contested races in awhile.&


Of course, no-one can be sure. My money is on the new attitude. The AMA has handed out an "attitude adjustment" to all the riders, not just KW. And it is working! And let me say again, I am surprised and disappointed that KW is the "example". But I believe the new attitude is responsible for the great racing last weekend.

I have an opinion of the intent of K-Dubs move as well. I have been the recipient of more that a few take-out moves, and have handed out a couple as well. I feel that I know what a take-out move looks like compared to an aggresive pass.

IMHO; K-Dub executed a take-out, pure, simple, and effective. Payback? Sure, but that don't make it right.

As far as DV being at fault for his soil sample; play the tape at speed. Do not look at still frames; they are quite interesting, but do not convey the actual incident. Do not look at slow-mo, again, it is irelevant. All of this happened in less than a second. DV was riding his line and never had a prayer . These guys are quick, but ain't nobody that quick!

David Bailey has a vested interest in DV, but still, he makes some great points on this issue. I just now went to his site and was surprised to see most of the things that I have been trying to say, but he says them better.

Particularly about DVs attitude at Anahiem II, and why it was a great race. "Standing up!!" :thumb:

Check it out;

http://www.davidbaileymx.com/pages/News.cfm?id=1224

Jonny


Posted by: elf

What can I say I did not vote. I agree with Nikki 100% !!


Posted by: RAHRAH

Good score Nikki
Its gotta be hard being a DV fan. Those pictures looked like someone looking for a free ride on the front of a train.
Ama shouldnt grippe about the pros playing a little to rough for th peewees.
The AMA should be in Washington. instead they warn a few about riding loosely. they arent on the edge the pros are so how can they judge what things are like. If the ama sees those pics they will admit to being th dumbone and see that DV is still alittle dumber. DV should have been braking or gassin it in his line. Instead he knew KW was coming hard and thought that he could get Kdub black flagged or something while he got all the gold. More or less he's looking at gaining the championship 10 points at a time.
If I were DV there was about 3ft to the right that was made to be braked on and he couldve still had a shot at the front.
I think DV wanted KW to take him out, he is a snake you know.


Posted by: kmccune

Kdub had the inside and DV should have beat him to the apex or backed off. Pretty simple. As for the points I'm sure the AMA is tired of fining people and was looking for somthing that would STING a little more. The AMA should reinstate the points.

 

Kevin


Posted by: Senior KX Rider

Bob Hannah made a few comments about the incident here

http://www.racerxill.com/012104_WhatAboutBob.cfm



Hard for me to disagree with what he says. Vuillemin asked for it and KW delivered. I doubt he had intentions of taking him out but the contact was intentional. It is racing. You could insert any two riders names into this story and it still would not matter. Its racing :scream:


Posted by: Jon K.

If Bob is going to espouse the jury process, maybe he shouldn't bring up O.J.


Posted by: JuliusPleaser

Political wrangling has always been a part of the European racing dynamic. The political aspect of Formula One is an integral part of the series, and adds an element of drama to the proceedings. Formula One needs the help, but SX doesn't. If SX turns into a Formula One-style parade, I'm out.

DV's reaction to his situation is very clever, but it's not one that I appreciate. I especially admire the way he's brought Bailey into his case. That's another typically French tactic. I can say that - I'm of French extraction.


Posted by: muddy226

Bob Hannah says "you mess with me, I'll break your leg".  Sounds like a really nice guy.  I like to see the best riders win, not the best bullies. If riders want to race in a AMA sanctioned series they should follow the rules, the idea of a riders jury seems pretty stupid to me, its a professional sport with big money involved, and making sure that the riders jury was unbiased would be well nigh impossible.  Perhaps he could start another series called "no holds barred SX" or some other snappy title where anything goes. It may be a quite short series due to rider shortages, but the medical profession may make some money.

I agree with David Bailey, and think he summed up the situation very well. I too am a fan of KW, but if he didn't attend the meeting and had no idea of what was said thats his fault. He didn't do himself any favours after the race either, saying that he was going to prove a point and send a message that he was not going to be pushed around.  It was pretty clearly a take out move that worked just as intended, and although it used to be acceptable it seems that it now isn't, and its up to the riders to follow the rules currently in force.

I think the AMA is absolutely correct in the decision, and deserves plaudits for acting quickly and decisively, and as the season progresses I expect to see the high standard of racing continue and improve as all the riders realise what they can and can't do and act accordingly, instead of getting into petty retaliatory moves because of what happened 6 weeks ago or whatever. The best riders do not need to knock others off the track in order to win. 


Posted by: mxchamp85

I think that the decision to doc kdub points was just about the stupidest thing to do. Knocking DV12 down was an unintentional move, and should not be looked at as a deliberate knock down to get into first. Just one turn earlier Dv came in just as hot to kdub but kdub was smart enough to let off. Now with the 10 point deduction kdub is sitting behind 6th place where he could have been third.


Posted by: Jon K.

Bailey has issued this statement. I didn't think he was unprofessional, unless he is speaking of something that I have not seen.

Class act all the way.

http://www.davidbaileymx.com/pages/News.cfm?id=1225


Posted by: wardy

if your in the lead you should be able to go where ya like. secondly, what comes around goes around, block me I block you. been in many of those kinda deals, problem when someone isn't smart enough to back off they go down harder. but now what are we going to have, crap like in the NFL and guys "faking" it,(to get a flag) I seem to think yamaha always gets the breaks on this stuff? Like to see if Reed did this or MC, if the new ref would have the nads to pull this. Its funny we want to see AMA start "taking care of business", but isn't there bigger issues then a block pass to deal with? this is a new guy needing to become the "authority", bad thing is you don't gain respect in this manner, you have to earn it over time. he will figure it out or won't last long.
Watch the rest of the season, and in MX, if he starts to do this on a regular basis, maybe the riders will group together finally and become a unit?

said more then enough

wardy


Posted by: kmccune

I was wondering what that little radioactive sign did! FYI it deletes posts

Kevin


Posted by: HiG4s

Bob said Kdub had not been warned, but from Bailey's statement it was because Kdub did not attend the riders meeting... Hmmm. back when I raced amature the riders meeting was mandatory?


Posted by: kmccune

The point I believed that most of us who oppose the penalty was not that he did or didn't know that the AMA was clamping down, but that the penalty is too severe for the infraction and/or why was DV not penalized or others who block passed in the same race.

Kevin


Posted by: marcusgunby

Maybe the AMA wasnt very impressed at KW for not attending the meeting? then he went on to pull one of the most aggressive moves of the season, then he boasted about it in front of the cameras, can't think why they docked him points???


Posted by: kmccune

Kevin had the inside and beat David to the apex of his choosing. On purpose, you bet, most aggressive move of the season ...yawn.


Posted by: marcusgunby

We could all find a inside line to beat another rider to the turn, but you need to be able to make it without using the other riders as berms.Kevin knows what its like to be sidelined with a broken leg-why possibly take DVs living away from him? because DV touched him in the previous turn?? If KW did nothing wrong he would appeal against the AMA decision and get his 10 points back, i conclude it was a take out manouver and he accepts the punishment.No one im my local raicng does stuff like KW and epxects no come back , i see passes like DV did all the time.They are not the same.


Posted by: kmccune

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusgunby
No one im my local raicng does stuff like KW and epxects no come back , i see passes like DV did all the time.They are not the same.


Take a step back for a moment and remember who block passed who first I am agreeing that he did it, but didn't David do it too? What about ( think it was SR ) who block passed someone in the 125's and Bubba called it a 10 point pass.

You have to be consistent with rulings otherwise they are NOT rules but are something less and open to debate... seems familiar does it not?


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmccune
I am agreeing that he did it, but didn't David do it too?


Nope.

And that seems to be the sticking point. The majority of people either do not see, or do not want to see; the difference between the two incidents.


Posted by: UMAGUMADOG

No where in the AMA rule book is a rule about docking points for blockpassing or rough riding.If it's not a rule it cant be enforced.The AMA cant (but did) make up rules as it goes along.If it's going to be a rule then it should be in next years rule book and enforced then not now.If I was k Dub my lawyers would be in contact with the AMA.I'm not a sue happy kinnda person but theres too much on the line for the AMA to be allowed to do this kind of thing.You cant make and enforce rules at a riders meeting it has to be in the rulebook I dont care if Jesus Christ himself conducts the riders meeting it's gotta be in writing in the rule book.


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMAGUMADOG
No where in the AMA rule book is a rule about docking points for blockpassing or rough riding.If it's not a rule it cant be enforced.The AMA cant (but did) make up rules as it goes along.If it's going to be a rule then it should be in next years rule book and enforced then not now.You cant make and enforce rules at a riders meeting it has to be in the rulebook I dont care if Jesus Christ himself conducts the riders meeting it's gotta be in writing in the rule book.


Umagumadog; why don't you try reading the rulebook before posting such statements?

Cut from the Pro Supercross Rulebook;

http://www.amaproracing.com/rulebook/04mxrules.pdf

B. General Offenses and Penalties
1. This section outlines actions which are deemed to be detrimental
to the sport of motorcycle racing and which may result in a range
of disciplinary actions. Unless otherwise specifically provided for
in these rules, the Race Manager may disqualify any participant
or motorcycle from the balance of a race meet for violation of
these rules, insubordination or other actions deemed in the sole
discretion of the Race Manager to be detrimental to the race
meet and the sport. Such disqualification includes the loss of any
rights with regard to the event in question and may result in
expulsion from the meet site. In addition, the Race Manager is
empowered to levy fines and to recommend to the AMA that a
party or parties be suspended from participation in AMA-sanctioned
activities. Unless otherwise specifically provided for in
these rules, the AMA is empowered to suspend from competition
any rider, crew member or motorcycle for a period of one meet up
to an indefinite suspension for violation of these rules, insubordination,
or other actions deemed, in the sole discretion of the
AMA, to be detrimental to the sport of motorcycle racing. The
AMA is also empowered to, in addition to or in lieu of a suspension
from competition, suspend a rider's eligibility to earn points
for one or more events including, but not limited to, the event in
which the rules violation took place. In addition, the AMA is
empowered to levy fines, points deductions and lap deductions. (Emphasis mine)
The beginning and ending dates of any such suspension will be
as determined by the AMA.


Posted by: BigR

But where does it say that block passing is against the rules?


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigR
But where does it say that block passing is against the rules?


Page 40;

"3. The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the
Race Manager and/or the AMA.

q. Riding at any time in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of other riders, officials or the public."

The point of conjecture (I have ALWAYS wanted to use that word in a sentence ) is whether Kevin executed a block pass or a take-out. But there is no doubt that the AMA is within their own guidelines and should have no fear of any lawsuits.


Posted by: BigR

I knew that rule would be posted :-) It's still way too open for interpretation. Heck those whoops and triples are probably more endangering than a block pass or take out move. How many times (and I don't know) has someone lost a life or limb as the result of a block pass or a takeout move? Compare that to times people have been injured of their own accord due to track design or just inherent risks of the sport.

If anything take out moves should fall within unsportsmanship like conduct.


Posted by: nikki

Just as an update --- K-Dub and Honda are going to the AMA HQ in Ohio on February 10th to meet on the appeal.

$10 says he gets his points back. If not, you can chalk up K-Dub's minus 10 as one of the most rediculous things I've ever seen in my life.


Posted by: Zoomer

I agree, I have seen far worse incidents where nothing ever happen. If this is the direction that SX is taking, well, I guess we will have to install "Bumpers" on there bikes, no touching no rough housing or you get kicked off the ride!


Posted by: Jon K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki
Just as an update --- K-Dub and Honda are going to the AMA HQ in Ohio on February 10th to meet on the appeal.


If K-Dub gets his points back the AMA is done. Finished.

I can't imagine how they could let that happen.


Posted by: rickyd

I hope he does get his points back, but wonder if the AMA would admit they are wrong...

A bit off subject.. W/the trajedy that happened in San Diego this past weekend, do you think that the AMA is going too take a look at starting procedures?? Reaso i ask is, when i was involved w/JetSki racing, we had alot of 1st turn mishaps, no brakes on a ski.. They had us start using a "Split Start" course.. Ten bikes go in this lane and 10 go too the out side lane, where they would meet up say on a straight away.. I hope this doesnt happen, but just curious what you think..
Rick


Posted by: miko

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon K.
If K-Dub gets his points back the AMA is done. Finished.

I can't imagine how they could let that happen.


I can't either. Heck, I wonder if KW could get penalized even more.
The FIA did that to Schumaker in F1 back in the early 90's.
He got a penalty, appealed and got fined even more and wasn't allowed to race the next two events.
You don't mess with governing bodies if you can help it. If they have it in for you, or want to make an example you get screwed.

miko.


Posted by: kmccune

Quote:
Originally Posted by miko
You don't mess with governing bodies if you can help it. If they have it in for you, or want to make an example you get screwed.

miko.


I disagree, they are OUR governing body and so we are obligated to mess with them when they do wrong.


Posted by: Jon K.

Really, if K-Dub can't do something to address his REAL problem (Chad Reed smoking him), those 10 points aren't going to amount to a hill of beans. This championship is not looking to be decided in the board room unless something changes.


Posted by: kmccune

That is obvious, but overall place is important in a rider resumes too and you just never can tell how close it will be in the end. I stand by my above comments.


Posted by: frankrock363

What comes around goes around.Thats racing.End of story.


Posted by: kmccune

Yup I'm getting tired of this thread :^|


Posted by: motorpsycho

I agree with marcusgunby, the riders were warned before the race about "rough riding". And since penaltys in all sports are left open to interpretation by the ref's (this case the AMA) kdub should shut up and sit down. In some sports you get additional penaltys and or fines for arguing with the refs, would love to see that happen here. Dont get me wrong, bangin' plastic is part of racing and I love to see those guys battle, but kdub turned himself from a racer into an obstical in this case.
Just my .02
later


Posted by: Jon K.

I have one more point to make, then I will quit beating the dead horse. I promise.

KW got penalized ten points. That's pretty severe.

By punting DV into the boonies (yes, I will go to my grave believing that it was a take-out of the finest fashion!) KW effectively docked DV 6 points (if he could have finished third), 8 points (if DV could have finished second). Heck, if DV could have won that night (long shot) he lost 11 points.

Draw your own conclusions.


Posted by: Zoomer

Really, if K-Dub can't do something to address his REAL problem (Chad Reed smoking him),

Looks like he took care of that this weekend! :thumb:

Scroll your page all theway up ... right hand corner #93 & #92


Looks like Okie is gonna do a old fashion block pass on old thump there!

Okie that will be 10 days off DRN! for trying to take the spot thump thinks he is gonna be in


Posted by: Jon K.

[QUOTE=Zoomer]
Looks like Okie is gonna do a old fashion block pass on old thump there!
QUOTE]

Yep, that could get real ugly!


Posted by: 2smoke

Yeah it was a take out alright....clinically performed and with purpose.....I thought it was over retaliation for the initial bump from DV....but 10 points is bull****, fullstop.

A good fine and a good drumming was all that was needed.


Posted by: kaput

10 points is overdoing it. I've always known Windham as a fair and clean rider. It may have been aggressive, but it takes 2 to tangle. Some riders just can't handle it when they get passed. Remember the instances with Sorby or Roncada? Not to sound like it's USA vs France, but do the French have bad tempers or what? Geez!


Posted by: Milk

Yay! Its been overturned and K DUb get his points back!


Posted by: kmccune




Posted by: nikki

Justice is served!!! :thumb:


Posted by: frankrock363

:thumb:



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