2S with similar power band of a 4S ?!?

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Mar 11, 2001
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#1
Hi,
This is my 1st post at DRN i hope that you can help me out...

I started riding with 2S (only with 50cc but very
agressive engines because of 24mm carbs
and narrow power band) then i jumped to 4S
with a DR350s (IMHO, a complete POS) and
then my current bike (LC4 620 with a 195 main jet !).
The thing is that now i getting tired to ride in mud
or tight terrain a bike that weights 140Kg
with fuel tank full ! Sure, there are the new gen
4S like the 520exc, FE650e, TE570, etc,etc.
but i noticed that those new gen 4S are a *****
in the maintnance chapter !
10 hours for a oil & filter change, 20 hours for
valve adjust with usualy dificult access
or expensive alu. "tablets" for valve
adjust, etc. !!!...and i bet that their pistons,etc.
are way more expensive than of a 2S !
Some even use titanium valves ! I dont
even want to think what will be the price of
that s**t if the camshaft chain breaks :-(
also, those engines are so squeesed in the frames that
for a piston replacement you
need to remove the (still heavy) engine from
the frame ! etc,etc.
I dont know but current 2S seem reliable
(correct me if im wrong) and the maintnance
is more simpler and relaxed (at least for
me even a piston replacement in a 2S
is more relaxed than a valve adjustment in a
4...i done both no mather i dont touch a 2S
engine a long time now :- )
and AFAIK, i dont even need to remove the engine to
replace the piston !
New Gen 4S ? I guess not for me !

So, what im looking is for a 2S with a good power band
w/o too much hit or need for
clutch *abuse* (because of my 15/40
gearing, in muddy/tight terrain i need to
make some more than usual use the clutch of my LC4...
still good after 21000km...i dont mind to use a little more
the clutch...i just dont want to use it as a 125 2S MX bike
needs to.

In special i like your opinions about the following models:
KTM 200/300/380exc.
Husky wr125/250.
GasGas ec250/300.
(FWIW...not that im thinking doing much of
it with them but its nice to go from a trail to
other...all of them are street legal in Portugal
:-)

Just to have am overall big picture of each brand...
OEM piston and rings prices in your
Country ? Parts avaiability in your Country ?

...and, can i remove their cylinders w/o remove
the engine ? I my area no one ride
one of the above models so i didnt check...

PS: i hope that the REV! do it well and
give a new hope for the future of 2S.
These new 4S also make a lot of noise in
special Yams...damn 747_NOISE_level on 2
wheels :-(

TIA



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Amandio J.S. Bacalhau < '96 KTM LC4 620 >
 

KDXfile

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#2
IMHO, I think all the bikes you listed except the Husky 125 and the KTM 380 would work great for what you want.
You don't have to pull the engine for a top end job.

------------------
Mark
GasGas EC200
KTM 125 Enduro
 
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#3
Actually I think the KTM380EXC is a fantastic bike. It has very smooth power and is very light. I find it very easy to ride. It is easily 20 pounds lighter than the lightest 4 stroke of equal power.

I also feel that the bigger the 2 stroke the more reliable it is. My bike (a Husky 360) went 6 years on the orig piston and rings!!!

Chris

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94 Husky 360 2 stroke, Street legal,(gotta clear my throat now)! Ported engine, FMF pipe, kehin PWK carb, full knobbies, Pro Action Showa suspension, Pro tapers. 50HP

[This message has been edited by cujet (edited 03-11-2001).]
 
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#4
Originally posted by cujet:
Actually I think the KTM380EXC is a fantastic bike. It has very smooth power and is very light. I find it very easy to ride. It is easily 20 pounds lighter than the lightest 4 stroke of equal power.
I also feel that the bigger the 2 stroke the more reliable it is. My bike (a Husky 360) went 6 years on the orig piston and rings!!!
BTW, some more of my "specs":
Im 5' 10' tall and weight 155 lbs w/o riding
gear...

BTW, i see that you have a Husky WR360
and you know that i didnt put it in the list.
That was because i heard that the pre-2000
models have a little brutal power delivery.
In 2000 it seemed more tammed...but
they did complain about still excessive
vibrations and the dificulty to kickstart it.
Any info about it ? i also know that they changed the pipe again for 2001, any clue
of what kind of power delivery does it puts out
in 2001and also about vibes and kickstarting it ? what was the price of the top end ?
They did have it in stock ? How complete is
Husky user manual ?

Your and KDXfile opinions helped a bit,
i hope that with these new infos you can help
me out to narrow even further the number of options (or maybe increase them ;-)
 
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#5
Originally posted by KDXfile:
IMHO, I think all the bikes you listed except the Husky 125 and the KTM 380 would work great for what you want.
You don't have to pull the engine for a top end job.
Thats good, BTW, i notice that you ride a EC200 which only wasnt listed in my option list because i forgot it !
Whats your opinion of it to my needs in comparison to the others?

BTW im 5'10'' tall and weight 155lbs w/o riding gear...and i also ride WOT with my LC4 in some bursts of speed up to 120-150kph.

TIA



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Amandio J.S. Bacalhau < '96 KTM LC4 620 >
 
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#6
I ride an older (1994)Husky 360WXE. It is not exactly the same as the newer ones. The later Husky's have more agressive cylinder porting. I ported mine to some fairly agressive specs, however I have no idea what the new bikes porting specs are. I have also raised the compression on my bike.

I find that the bike is fairly hard to kick over. I have to get up on the peg to start it. The trick is to give it a strong powerful kick. Jabbing at the kickstarter will not turn the engine over fast enough to start it. I am used to it and can get it started everytime. The kickstarter is in an unusual position and makes things slightly more difficult.

The mods I have done resulted in a very user friendly torque curve with little hit and plenty of torque. I find myself riding at low RPM's often, as there is no reason to rev it.

The bike did vibrate in stock form. I rebuilt the crank when I did the top end for the sole purpose of balancing and truing the crank. The result is a much smoother engine. I installed soft CR500 seat foam and this eliminates any vibes felt while sitting. The Pro Taper bars also help.

The KTM380EXC is a very close match to my bike with similar performance and vibes. Softer seat foam will help the KTM also.

I would purchase another Husky 360 in a heartbeat. There are just a few mods necessary to make it perfect.

The KTM is an all around better bike though.

Chris

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94 Husky 360 2 stroke, Street legal,(gotta clear my throat now)! Ported engine, FMF pipe, kehin PWK carb, full knobbies, Pro Action Showa suspension, Pro tapers. 50HP
 

KDXfile

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#7
AJSB,
The reason I ruled out the 360 is you mentioned muddy & tight terrain which the bigger 2-strokes might be a handful. The Husky 125 has a limited top speed and a narrow power band for wide-open running.
I rode a Husky WR250 last year and it was a good bike but not a tight turner.
You mentioned you like WOT operation at speeds around 150kph. You may like the GasGas's then. They have a 6-speed tranny with a tall 6th gear, smooth power, & excellent handling.

------------------
Mark
GasGas EC200
KTM 125 Enduro
 

Strick

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#8
Cujet

6 years before a rebuild on a two stroke? I must assume you don't race.

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Strick '99 KTM 300mxc, AMA & BRC member
 
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#9
Before i make my final 2 questions, i like to say a special thanks to cujet and KDXfile, you
really helped me out alot !
I cornered allready my options to only
3 models:
GasGas EC200 or EC300.
KTM 200EXC.
(In my final post with the my decision i will
explain why i ruled out Huskys).

For my final choice i need the answer to the following:

1- I noticed that 2001 GasGas have Nissin
brakes. Does this mean that they use the
same brake pads size and format than
Honda CR250 and other MX bikes
from Japan use in the last years ?
How about the brake pad pins ?
If so, that will be nice.

2- I know that several plastics of the
GasGas EC models are the same of
Japanese models.
Does with the air filter happen the same ?
Is the air filter also of a model of another
more mainstream bike ?
If yes, any chance of you inform me about
from which bike is the GasGas air filter
from ?

TIA



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Amandio J.S. Bacalhau < '96 KTM LC4 620 >
 

KDXfile

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#10
1) I'm not sure about the front brakes because I've never replaced them. On the back of my 99', they are the same as any late model Husky or KTM. I don't know if they changed them for 01' but I'm sure it's a fairly common pad.
2) If you buy plastic, get GasGas OEM because it's as cheap or cheaper than Jap or aftermarket stuff.
I'm using a air filter from a mid-90's era Kawasaki and I think mid-late 90's Honda filters will also work.
Go to www.smackovermotorsports.com
There is a thread over there about cross-over parts in their Talking Smack section.

------------------
Mark
GasGas EC200
KTM 125 Enduro
 
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#11
Thanks for the info Mark , in special the link !
If your rear calliper is KTM compatible,
its made by Brembo.
'01 GasGas use Nissin Calippers and after reading your URL, it seems clear that its the same modern callipers used by all
CRs, KXs,RMs and YZ/WR(F) since at least
'99 !
Rear sprockets compatible with Husky and front sprocket with TM.
This widdens the possible supplier for parts
in case GasGas has a momentary shortage or to find a better price...and even for
plastics will make possible to
dress a GasGas with the Portuguese Flag colors :-)

As for Huskys, i asked the price for a OEM piston to the WR250 here in Portugal and was ~162 USD !!! A OEM piston for the KTM 250EXC is ~120 USD ! Need i say more ?
Now i know why no one rides a Husky (or at least finishs a single day) in our Enduros !!!
Next i will check OEM Piston prices for the EC250 here and make a final decision between the EC200 and EC300...
...but i have a feeling that i will no longer ride a KTM after i buy my next machine....unless that GasGas parts are way expensive.

Thanks for all.


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Amandio J.S. Bacalhau < '96 KTM LC4 620 >