AMA rule Changes, its that time of year!

wardy

2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
Joined
Nov 12, 1999
Messages
2,680
Likes
6
#1
Yes this is the time when all rule changes get started and your AMA congress delegate in your area will be filling out proposed changes!

Anyway if you have ideas(i gona pay dearly for this) or things that you feel should be changed type it up and post it! I am in no way promising that it will get on the agenda but hey this is the way to make some one hear your thoughts! NOw of course it would be nice that if your opinions are in writing here that you would be a card carrying ama member!

If you want to know who your congress delegate is in your region i should be able to help you.

thanks

wardy

------------------
"don't wake me.......I am working."
 
Joined
Dec 29, 1999
Messages
282
Likes
0
#2
1) The AMA should acknowledge parents being allowed on the track for 50cc PeeWee (Class 1 in 2001's 50cc class breakdown) races. Many outlined their thoughts on this in the thread at:

http://208.56.125.175/forums/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000016.html

2) The 550cc limit for four-stroke eligibility in what's generally the 250cc two-stroke class should be seriously considered for downward revision. I believe the 550cc limit was set when four-stroke application and efficiency were, if nothing else, different than they are today.

That's it. Everything else is perfect


James
AMA#773175
D17<p align=right>06-14-2000 :Edited
 

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy
Joined
Nov 5, 1999
Messages
4,368
Likes
34
#3
Perfect? perfect?
James!
I know you can do better? haha
What about the 250 four strokes in the 125 class??


can they run 250 class on the same day?
( not currently,they have to pick a cxlass that event just like the YZF400 )

The 50cc parent rule really needs looking into for sure.

I think both parents should have to do a qualifing 50 yard sprint..whoever wins is the one allowed on the track..( joking joking ..)
 

wardy

2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
Joined
Nov 12, 1999
Messages
2,680
Likes
6
#4
thanks james i already forgot that i asked that one question, have to see what happens i plan on putting the 50cc deal on the congress agenda.

thanks again

wardy
 
Joined
Dec 29, 1999
Messages
282
Likes
0
#5
I think we need to see a few years of competition with the more modern technology (read: the YZ250F) before we can make the same conclusion about 250 4-S bikes in the 125 2-S class as we can with big 4-S bikes in the 250 2-S class.

The YZ400F was about right, especially with its weight disadvantage. The YZ426F pushes the envelope, and a YZ550F would rip it to shreads. I haven't seen any reports on weight for the YZ250F, but my guess is it's going to be quite a bit heavier than, say, the CR125. I doubt the YZ250F will have the same relative advantage in the 125 class as the YZ426F in the 250 class.

And perfect? Well...maybe what I meant was OK from my perspective. I'm sure others can find plenty more that needs fixing. Like open class riders...those CR500AFs are like cherry picking...now there's a bike that should be outlawed!


James<p align=right>06-16-2000 :Edited
 

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy
Joined
Nov 5, 1999
Messages
4,368
Likes
34
#7
James the YZ250f dry weight is 216 ..same as the YZ250.

That c.l.a.s.s. thing is pretty funny.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 1999
Messages
138
Likes
0
#8
Wonder if we could be allowed to choose which class we would want to run the YZF250 in... the 125 or the 250.

I believe some of the newer riders... like myself, wouldn't mind running the 250F in the 250D class or something.&nbsp;&nbsp;Or even both to get more saddle time.&nbsp;&nbsp;But that may be stupid.
 

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy
Joined
Nov 5, 1999
Messages
4,368
Likes
34
#9
Ivan,
as the rules now stand and I doubt they change:

The YZ250f would be legal in both the 125 and 250 c.l.a.s.s.
HOWEVER
you do have to choose on the day of an event what displacement you will comptet in for that day.
IE: 125C&nbsp;&nbsp;

OR&nbsp;&nbsp;250C

not&nbsp;&nbsp;both.

This is the same rule the YZF 426 falls under.
You have to choose a displacment c.l.a.s.s
250cc
or
Open
on a given day.

on any of theses bikes you could ride a second or even third c.l.a.s.s
if you so choose.
It would just have to be an age group c.l.a.s.s
likw 14 to 24
plus 25 plus 30 plus 35 plus 40
etc etc

This rule has been in place awhile and effects all the fourstrokes like an XR 400 or XR250,,you just dont see many people racing an XR250 yanno?
So nobody questions or brings up the rules.

The actual rule is:
An entrants bike can be ridden in only one displacement class per event
either class 1 ,2 or 3.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 1999
Messages
282
Likes
0
#10
I see how the one class rule affects the 426 because the open class (class 3) doesn't have a two-stroke/four-stroke designation. But classes 1 and 2 do. My AMA rule book says:

Class 1.....86cc-125cc (2-S) or 86cc-250cc (4-S)
Class 2.....126cc-250cc (2-S) or 251cc-550cc (4-S)

So unless the YZ250F has a variable displacement lever, it would not be legal for class 2, only class 1.

OK, now for a completely niave question: What is the logic for limiting a bike to just one displacement class?

James&lt;p align=right&gt;06-16-2000 :Edited<p align=right>06-16-2000 :Edited
 

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy
Joined
Nov 5, 1999
Messages
4,368
Likes
34
#11
Thats good James.
Your right!
I did not notice the 251cc.

Now I'm wondering if its actual displacement is 250.5cc what can it run?

On the idea behind the "run one displacment class per bike " rule:

I have no odea what started it...or the reasoning,
but the displacements are actually set,per your notice on class 2,
&nbsp;&nbsp;so that it only effects a&nbsp;&nbsp;251cc or larger displacemnent 4 stroke
anyway?

interesting.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 1999
Messages
282
Likes
0
#12
If no one can recall the logic, then perhaps that's a rule change that needs to be made. That is, allow four-strokes that qualify for class 2 to also run class 3 on the same day.

James
 

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy
Joined
Nov 5, 1999
Messages
4,368
Likes
34
#13
Umm James,
Just because "I" can not remember doesnt mean there isnt a reason?


Not that the rule hasn't been looked into also..and will be again.


Actually the wording could/would have to be just for 4 strokes...
I'm sure we could work up a wording that would allow Yamaha YZ426f owners to comptete in every class they wanted on any given day? LOL
You know I am teasing but honestly as things stand the rule basically is for made for one bike, one company.

And I think that leads to the logic behind the rule ..
Why SHOULD a certain bike be legal in more than one displacment class per day?
There is no way any 2 stroke can be the way the displacements are currently structured?

Why should a 4 stroke be allowed that periviledge with out also letting the 2 strokes..

If you say:  "WHY NOT let the 2 strokes also?"
and then
you follow that along far enough you end up with  A, B, and C class ..any displacement legal.

Just my guess at what the "founding fathers" were thinking as that rule was passed.


<p align=right>06-16-2000 :Edited
 

wardy

2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
Joined
Nov 12, 1999
Messages
2,680
Likes
6
#14
here is the way to do it.

5 year increments, class structure to follow this way.....

0-5
5-10
10-15
15-20
20-25
25-30
30-35
35-40
40-45
50-60
60-up

OK thats 11 classes no A no B no beg nuthin. have a bunch more riding time and any bike size in any of the above classes.

then we could have 20 min motos again and still be done by 4pm.

won't happen but could work

wardy

jim I never ever have deleted a post before only an entire deal so i willl have ask okie how that works I don't want to screw up sumthin
 
Joined
Dec 29, 1999
Messages
282
Likes
0
#15
As we've said, the dual class eligibility of the +251cc four-strokes is a result of the relatively low power 4S bikes output vs. two-strokes. Basically, in the past a 250cc 4S just wasn't competitive with a 250cc 2S, so you obviously had to allow the bigger bore 4S bikes compete with the smaller 2S bikes. Throw in the weight disadvantage of the 4S bikes, and it seems logical to allow 4S bikes up to 550cc compete with 250cc 2S bikes.

This creates a special situation for the bigger 4S bikes. Because Class 3 is defined as only 251cc-Open with no 2S or 4S clarification, legally you could run any 4S 251cc or larger in that class.

Now, as with most things, technology is out-pacing the rule books. Obviously, big 4S bikes are competitive with even 500cc 2S bikes. If you doubt that statement, just check out any top five in the Open classes on Wardy's results page. It's Yam...Yam...Yam... (with apologies to AJ).

My guess is the statement in the AMA rule book "No motorcycle may be entered by the same rider in more than one engine displacement class of the following classes 1,2 or 3" was put in there to foil guys from switching, say, a stock 125cc cylinder with one bored 0.80 over and running the 250cc class with the same bike otherwise.

I also guess that the original Class 3 designation that doesn't specify 4S or 2S was done because the original authors simply didn't know what to do about the 4S limits because they already went up to 550cc on Class 2 (out of necessity because 4S used to be at much larger disadvantage to 2S bikes of the same size). What would they have done? Made Class 3 251cc-Open 2S and 551cc-1000cc 4S or something? That would have looked pretty stupid.

The AMA rulemakers need to bite the bullet and fix this. It seems pretty silly that on one weekend a bike can be raced in one class and then with *no modification* be raced in another class on the next weekend, but the same bike can't be raced in those same classes on one day. Either the line that says one machine can't be entered in more than one class on one day needs to be clarified to limit it to its original intent OR the class displacement limits for 4S bikes need to be set for each class. For example:

Class 1: 86cc-125cc 2S, 86cc-225 4S
Class 2: 126cc-250cc 2S, 226cc-350cc 4S
Class 3: 251cc-Open 2S, 351cc-Open 4S

James
00CR250