AMA's Bill Dart on Thumper pipes; must read


mtngoat

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Jun 12, 2000
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This may not be what we (or others) want to hear, but we need to listen up.

NOISE RESURFACES AS A MAJOR ISSUE

By Bill Dart, AMA District 36 Legislative Officer

Noise has always been one of the biggest reasons people don't like dirt bikes. I am not talking about just environmental groups that don't like OHV recreation on general principles and philosophy, either. We can deal with almost every issue they raise. We can deal with water quality, air quality, erosion, wildlife issue, botanical issues, archaeological issues, and user conflict issues. Often, all of these are just surrogate issues for the real, underlying reason; nobody likes noisy dirt bikes.

I don't think we will ever be able to satisfy environmental extremists, but we need to quit making the general public mad at us over noise. Susie Soccer Mom doesn't like noisy dirt bikes. Joe Six Pack doesn't like noisy dirt bikes. Virtually every single elected official, appointed regulator or public land manager, doesn't like noisy dirt bikes. I don't like noisy dirt bikes.

Noise has always been a major issue, but until a couple of years ago, the trend was towards much more quiet dirt bikes. Water cooling, tighter engine tolerances, better induction systems, and better mufflers had brought the sound level of most dirt bikes down into the mid to low 90 db range by the early 90's. Most of the older, louder air cooled bikes have gone to that big riding area in the sky, or are rusting out behind the shed under a tarp, and noise complaints had dropped off as a major issue.

So what happened? New four-strokes are what happened, especially the popular Yamaha 400/426 series. While right on the margin of legality, they are still too noisy right out of the crate. But the problem really gets bad when an aftermarket exhaust system is installed, which it seems about 90% of these bikes have today. Dirt Rider magazine did testing for power and sound levels on all of the popular exhaust system available for the Yamaha 400/426 series, as well as the new Suzuki DRZ400. According to their testing, the Yamaha measured 100 db stock, barely within the 99db, plus or minus 2 db, mandated by California law. But none of the aftermarket pipes tested came in below 102db, and most were between 104 and 106 db. This means that NONE of the aftermarket pipes for the 400/426 are legal to use anywhere on public lands in California, not even for racing.

"But, those are racing systems," is the response from the aftermarket companies. Baloney! AMA rules have a maximum noise level of 99db. None of them are legal for AMA amateur racing. And what about other private tracks that aren't AMA? Well, many of those tracks have been shut down. Why? Because people hate noisy dirt bikes! I asked most of these companies if they had ever tried to get a permit for a new track, as I have several times. I bet you can guess the single biggest reason why many tracks are never granted permits. If you guessed noise, you are starting to get the drift on the noise issue. Even the thin thread of credibility about the YZ400/426 being a race bike and the aftermarket pipes were designed for closed course racing, went out the window when we read a similar test on all of the pipes for the Suzuki DRZ400.

Unlike the Yamaha, the Suzuki doesn't pretend to be a race bike. It is a recreational trail bike that would cost more to make truly race worthy than a couple of Yamahas. It makes very good useable power, but less than the Yamaha. What really impressed everybody who has heard one is just how quiet it is, yet it still has outstanding performance. Dirt Rider tested it at 90 db with the stock pipe, which is very quiet, and it still puts out over 40 horsepower. For comparison, the latest 426 Yamaha has about 45 horsepower and the Honda XR 400 puts out just a little over 30 horsepower.

Well, the DRZ400 noise got just about as bad as the Yamaha, once the stock pipe was replaced. Not a single one is AMA legal, according to the Dirt Rider data. Only one is barely California legal, the Stroker spark arrestor model, at 100 db. All the rest are between 102 and 104.

But, what about all that extra power that comes with the noise, isn't that reason enough? Well, in the case of the Yamaha, none of the pipes even matched the stock pipe's midrange, where most riding is done. Most of them made less than one horsepower more than the stock pipe. A couple made less than two horsepower over stock, one at extremely low RPM, and one at nearly 11,000 RPM. In fact, some of them were even lower in power than stock at almost every RPM. A one horsepower gain at the ends of the powerband, while losing several horsepower in the most used midrange, does not amount to a performance increase.

What about that choked down Suzuki? It must have made major horsepower leaps with an aftermarket system, right? Sorry, Charlie! Only modest gains were made, a horsepower or two. Barely noticeable. But, boy, EVERYBODY noticed the difference in sound levels.

Expect Heavy Noise Law Enforcement in 2002
Where do we go from here? Well, the OHV Division just convened a committee to address the noise issue, of which I am a member. They have been charged with developing a recommendation for a new sound limit law. The Motorcycle Industry Council has already recommended that level be lowered to 96db, with no plus or minus variation, as a level the industry can comply with. This is likely to be the highest the new law will allow.

"But so what?", you might say. Nobody is enforcing sound limits anyway. Well, things are changing in this field as well. Noise enforcement will be a priority next year. The OHV Division will be providing all of the test equipment needed to every agency that requests it, and the MIC has updated their technical test data manual, so that all models can be properly and legally tested. Additionally, with law enforcement grants exploding this year, and the new state emphasis on noise enforcement, you can expect rigorous field enforcement this year all over the state.

Due to the new emphasis on law enforcement, and the enhanced communication between all of the various law enforcement agencies dealing with OHV's, the sound level of the aftermarket four-stroke exhaust systems has been recently circulated throughout that community, and anyone with an aftermarket exhaust on a four-stroke will be automatically suspect, and the officer will have probable cause to do a stop and sound test.

If you have been considering buying an aftermarket exhaust for your four-stroke, you might want to reconsider, especially if you can't get reliable data that it meets current laws. If you'll want to use it for the long term, you'll want to look for pipes at or below 96 db, since it is almost a certainty that the noise limit will be lowered. The only debate will be about just how much it will be lowered. If you already have an aftermarket system that is over the legal or AMA limit, I would urge you to demand a refund, since it is not even legal for AMA-sanctioned, amateur closed-course racing.

More important than being technically legal, if we really love to ride and want to protect our sport, we need to do everything we can to reduce noise well below the legal limits. We need to make friends, not enemies, and all we really get from noise are more enemies -- except for a few companies making significant money selling socially irresponsible products for big bucks. Can anybody give me a believable reason why a four-stroke exhaust system, with a simple head pipe and a simple can muffler, costs twice as much or more, than a two-stroke system?

Let's bring back the programs that brought the noise levels down before. TEAM STEALTH. Less Sound = More Ground. We need to reward companies that make quiet yet more powerful and lighter pipes. We need to make quiet COOL, instead of nerdy, like the undertone in the enthusiast press does today. We need to harass our fellow riders using obnoxious pipes, until they do something about it. Because, if we don't, all we are doing is digging our own grave.
 

Milquetoast

Uhhh...
Oct 30, 2001
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Yes! Bring back TEAM STEALTH! Nobody I have ever seen ride in person needs that extra one or two horsepower. And don't forget that this problem exists on street bikes too (are you listening Harley riders?).
 

stroker

Member
Mar 19, 2000
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Very well written, you are exactly right. Even up here in Canada, the number one reason wht we are losing riding areas is NOISE.... we have to smarten up or the only riding we will be doing is on bicycles.

Take resposibility for yourself, make sure that your bike is quiet.

Take responsibility for your favourite riding areas, make sure your riding buddies bikes are quiet, even talk to the guys you don't know, explain the vital importance of this.

Force the pipe manfacturers to start producing quiet powerfull pipes, How? quit paying through the nose to buy overpriced crap that usually dosen't work ($300 to $750 for 1 or 2 hp and double the noise, we should be embarrassed to admit we got suckered like that) STOP BUYING LOUD PIPES!
Then and only then will the pipe companies spend the $$ to design something that actually works, and we start getting some real value for our money.

If we don't fix it ourselves, the government WILL step in and either eliminate us, or make us remember the "good old days" when we had lots of riding areas and had 400cc bikes that made 45hp, if they set the noise level at 89db, current muffler technology will make for XR400 kind of power, as good as it gets.
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
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I can see the future- no 2 stokes after 2006, 2007 all bikes banned due to noise, in the UK the AMCA has ruled all 4 strokes have to use std exhaust with no tampering, since 1988 we have had sound testers at local meetings.I hate noisy 4 strokes BTW.
 

yz250-effer

Member
Nov 4, 2000
305
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I agree!

That is why I have kept the stock silencer on my 250F.:) Stock, I don't feel it is any louder than any 2 stroke? But I could be wrong. The noise of a 4 stroke carrys further, too, and that certainly does not help.:(
 

klymr

Member
Feb 28, 2001
8
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very well said Mtn Goat! I hope others will listen and realize this noise issue is no joke, but a reality that is going to cause OHV'rs to lose ground.

Wake up everyone and dont get suckered by the magazines selling the must have loud pipes! Hmmm, who's advertisements are in the mags? is there a connection there do you think?

klymr
 

vince321

Member
Oct 2, 2001
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This whole issue gives me a rash. Even though I realize that stricter laws will probably force people to run quieter pipes. I personaly like a louder pipe and think it makes a bike sound better. It's amazing to me that everytime a few people complain, new laws have to be made.

When it comes to dirt bikes, there is simply a double standard. Almost all Harleys make an unbelievable amount of noise. These exhausts are intentionaly put on to increase and change the sound over a stock muffler. However, I haven't heard of any new laws being made to decrease their noise levels. Of course, if a dirt bike is made to run louder than some people find acceptable, new rules have to be made.

On a separate note, with the push to outlaw two strokes, has anyone considered snowmobiles? There are literally hundereds of two stoke snowmobiles riding around the northern United States. I haven't heard any complanits about them. These things make a considerable amount of noise and blow all kinds of smoke.

Anyway, I could probably vent for a few more paragrahps but I won't. It'll have to be enought to realize that if new laws state 96db, than that's what I'll have to run.
 

380EXCman

Sponsoring Member
Sep 15, 1999
721
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Hmmm....

Im going to really sound like a jerk now but its just the way I see it.

I also feel that people should be more responsible and try to make their bikes as quiet as they can. I am a big proponet of silencer packing (my back ground is in high temperature insulation) and feel that most people do not repack it often enough (wich equals less power and more noise). I also believe that alot of people buy a pipe for its alleged power increases, or they just like the looks or sound. How is it that KTM and the other Euro mfg's are the only ones that can make a pipe that is a good comprimise of power, weight and noise. You Jap bike fans really need to cry more about what you get for your buck just like we all should complain to the pipe makers that they are making nothing more than crap. You can bronse a turd and make it look pretty but its still a turd!

But what really pisses me off is all the people that want to meet our enemies 1/2 way. No matter what we do there will always be someone that does not like what we do period. And if we continue to meet them 1/2 way we will negoitiate ourselves out of exsitence. While I do feel this topic has "some" merit just like some of the enviromental impact isssues have some. I will not waiver. I will take responsibility for myself and do what "I" think is right but when it comes down to the wire I will ride past "Trail Closed" signs and ride right around Johny Ranger and his DB meter. Am I jerk? Maybe. Will I make it worse for the rest? Maybe. But I really dont care. Where are the comprimises at on the other side of the argument? They dont exsist. Its like the comedian said "I saw a handi-cap person park in one of our spots the other day, I kicked his arse."

Its no different for me with hunting. If it is ever outlawed I will become an outlaw and a poacher.
 

bwalker

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Jan 10, 2000
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Vince, Have you heard a snowmobile lately. They are very quiet, even with aftermarket pipes. The snowmobile industry realised that noise was a problem and addressed it. I wish the motorcycle industry would do the same. What good are loud pipes with no place to ride? Two gus with 426's and pc exhausts got a private track shutdown that I rode on. Its pretty stupid imo givin the miniscule gain over the fcatory piece which is loud as is. bTW IMO The exhaust note of a foustroke is more noticable at long distances than a two stroke even if both have simular DB rateings. It must be a tone issue.
 

scar tissue

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Dec 27, 2000
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mtngoat, your post stated that none of the aftermarket pipes tested were good for quiet riding.

What about the FMF quiet pipe, or the White Bros version. Were those tested? As you know I'm getting a Canadian WR250f and the 2 draw backs are the wieght of the pipe and how restrictive the Canadian pipe is. I was eithr going to get an aftermarket pipe imediatly or I was actually thinking of finding a stock yz250f pipe to run an adding a spark arrester. Any other ideas?
 

kciH

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 28, 2002
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I have a 01 YZ426, and it is a good deal louder than a 250 2-stroke with aftermarket exhaust. At a local riding area I was drag racing 4 250's at once and my riding buddies said they couldn't even hear the two stroke bikes. This is with the factory exhaust on the four stroke. If you think the 426 is loud, you should hear a Raptor with ANY aftermarket exhaust on it.

I am considering a Big Gun exhaust with the quiet core silencer. They claim no loss of power from stock at 94dB or less! I hope these are more than just "claims". If anybody knows how these pipes are performing, please respond...good,bad, or slow.
 

Milquetoast

Uhhh...
Oct 30, 2001
921
0
When it comes to dirt bikes, there is simply a double standard. Almost all Harleys make an unbelievable amount of noise. These exhausts are intentionaly put on to increase and change the sound over a stock muffler. However, I haven't heard of any new laws being made to decrease their noise levels. [/B]

You haven't? Read the AMA magazine and you'll hear of alot of them.
 

mtngoat

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 12, 2000
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Scar,
the White Bros E-Series can attenuate sound by removing disks (some effect) and/or by adding a quiet core insert (more, I expect). I'd bet, between the two options, sound level can be brought in range. Most of my riding buddies went with the E-Series, so they'll probably buy the quiet core. I have an FMF megamax on one of my bikes and I believe there is a quiet core option for it too. Not sure about the performax series. I'm considering the purchase of a db meter to know where we stand and guard against overzealous rangers and their new db toys this summer.

Appreciate the positive feedback guys, but just to be clear, I didn't write the article. Bill Dart, the author has always struck me as a "voice of reason" with tough issues. I agree with Bill, but I'm not wholly innocent (got some pipe changes to do this summer).

However, I live by a credo that my innocence can't be established by another's guilt. The harley riders, snowmobiles, whatever are getting hit or will be hit. In any event their guilt will not dismiss my defiance or inaction.
 

vince321

Member
Oct 2, 2001
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bwalker, yes I've heard snowmobiles lately. As a matter of fact, I'll be riding one later this month in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan with thirteen other people. One snomobile by it's self isn't that loud. However, when you get a pack of them together, they make a considerable amount of racket.

Anyway, if we all had motorcycles that were as quiet as snowmobiles, they would still be too loud. The people who want to impose their view of whats right for society (Including loud aftermarket pipes) don't like dirtbikes and won't be happy until we can't ride them, period.

BTW - My neighbor has a Harley that's kind of loud, I wan't it outlawed.

The other day, while walking through the woods, someone fired a rifle. It scared my dog. I want rifles outlawed.

A couple of months ago, my wife and I were having dinner in Kemah, a loud boat went by the marina and interrupted our conversation. These things need to be outlawed.

Last year, a friend of mine was killed riding his Truimph sport bike. Those things are way to fast. We gotta find and agency to outlaw'em. Not to mention, his pipe was kinda loud.

The other day, while at a stop light, a dude in a pick-up truck pulled up along side me. It was all jacked up with huge tires. Blocked my view of the intersection. There needs to be a law to lower those things.

On Saturday, while riding at the local MX park, some guy had a White Bros. exhaust that was extremely loud. We gotta outlaw them too........................

I am intentionally being facetious to illustrate a point. There are many things that can bother people everyday. However, creating new laws for everyone with an agenda is beyond me.
 

Bobt250

Member
Jan 21, 2002
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The guys that get suckered into buying aftermarket pipes on promises of horsepower gains always cracked me up. I'm highly amused by the Dyno results listed above. I've always thought those types of people "thought" their bike was faster just because it was making more noise.

Then again, there are the people with the "harley mentality". They want to be "seen". Hey look at me......ain't I cool? I'll make sure you can't miss me...what with all that noise how can you miss me?

I also believe that most people will never give up on ending our fun and will never be satisfied until we are standing in line at the golf course for a tee time. Hey, maybe that'll get 'em. Make those lines longer and maybe they'll want us to go back out into the woods 'eh?

BUT SERIOUSLY! THEY CAN'T MESS WITH US IF THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WE ARE THERE !!

Loud four strokes are obnoxious.

STEALTH !!
 

Neil Wig

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 22, 2000
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We must make some effort to make dirt bikes less offensive to those that vote. They may be whiners, but that's the way it goes.

BWalker - with regard to snowmobiles with aftermarket pipes, I disagree. A co-worker bought a new thundercat. With the stock pipe and silencer it was nice and quite. He put stinger pipes and an aftermarket silencer on it, and even he says he needs ear plugs. I think that level of noise needs to be adressed.
 

needsprayer

Member
Oct 24, 2001
109
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380EXCman

"when it comes down to the wire I will ride past "Trail Closed" signs and ride right around Johny Ranger and his DB meter."


Inviting the law to chase you is not a great strategy. You could lose your bike and freedom over a little baffling. There are bigger battles to fight, like being able to use the land. :cool:
 

bwalker

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 10, 2000
839
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A co-worker bought a new thundercat. With the stock pipe and silencer it was nice and quite. He put stinger pipes and an aftermarket silencer on it, and even he says he needs ear plugs. I think that level of noise needs to be adressed.
I was talking about new sleds and the aftermarket pipes that are available from componies like PSI and SLP. Both make quiet sytems. All aftermarket pipes for sleds two years ago where very loud till the industry got together and semanded quiet pipes.

Vince, A whole fleet of sleds is less offensive than one 426. BTW I lived in the UP for five years and have riden sleds my whole life so I know what i am talking about.
 

380EXCman

Sponsoring Member
Sep 15, 1999
721
1
Inviting the law to chase you is not a great strategy. You could lose your bike and freedom over a little baffling. There are bigger battles to fight, like being able to use the land.
I agree with that, but a day will come when we all will have to make that choice. We cannot continue to give up our freedoms and pleasures, because a group or person find them "offensive". It will not end, and in my opinion the people who cave to these attacks are cowardly and are simply buying time.

And my statement above is applicable to many many situations we have in this country.
 

Jay-R

Member
Nov 27, 2001
133
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Has anyone noticed all of the people trying to get golf outlawed. That is because hitting a ball and riding a golf cart are both quiet. If we don't agree to quieten our motorcycles how are we ever going to succeed in making all golf courses into motocross tracks?

That is our goal isn't it?;)
 

needsprayer

Member
Oct 24, 2001
109
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380EXCman

I agree that we must defend and fight for our freedoms.


"It will not end, and in my opinion the people who cave to these attacks are cowardly and are simply buying time. "

The following is my opinion and is not directed at any one person.


One of the objectives of war is to eliminate the enemies' ability to wage war. The wackos scream about environmental damage. If Off Road Vehicle users showed that they protected the environment and the use of that environment through the exercise of good judgement, i.e. avoidng excessive noise, not exhibiting rude behavoir and contributing to the maintenance of the public facility then that virtue becomes our weapon. At the same time it takes a weapon away from the enemy.

This virtue is not caving in. It is an inner strength that will be recognized and admired.
 

mechantloup

Member
Feb 5, 2001
55
0
If we ride quiet bikes ( ever done a "stealth" pass? ,were the rider in front with a noisy pipe didn't heard you coming ;) swweet!! ) and encourage friends to do the same,we will have made good progress against eco-sniveling ...i drag raced a friend of mine a dozen time to prove his 800$ pipe was no faster and it wasn't, it made is bike harder to launch that's all... Whatever he gained in power he lost in usability.. Dirt riding is not about who has the most power but who is able to use what's avaible to best advantage .

please forgive my bad english
 


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