any machinist types? sleeve question
- Thread starter sr5bidder
- Start date
Hey man. Glad to see you're already preparing to stitch her back up already! I hope to get out this weekend, but am having some trouble out of the rear caliper...
The stock clearance will be perfectly fine when going to a sleeve AFAIK. What brand piston are you planning on using? If you aren't going to have to bore it, I'd go with pro-x and mic the existing bore size. This way you can match the proper pro-x piston to the wear in your sleeve, if any. They come in stock, B, C and D sizes. This can buy you at least a few thousandths without needing to bore it.
The stock clearance will be perfectly fine when going to a sleeve AFAIK. What brand piston are you planning on using? If you aren't going to have to bore it, I'd go with pro-x and mic the existing bore size. This way you can match the proper pro-x piston to the wear in your sleeve, if any. They come in stock, B, C and D sizes. This can buy you at least a few thousandths without needing to bore it.
- Thread starter
- #3
good Idea JD but I really only have a veneer caliper.. do you know where I can get some good but inexpensive inside snap gage things. the rod is cleaned up I'm just on the fence about honing it and putting new rings in and run it for a few rides and recheck the rod condition or even just putting the old rings back in for that matter.
I will have to have my machinist measure it though
I will have to have my machinist measure it though
Wiseco uses their own ring design and dimensions. They probably use their own piston-to-cylinder clearances as well, since the Wiseco piston has different thermal expansion characteristics.
Generally, a steel/iron sleeve will expand less than a plated aluminum cylinder, so you'd need slightly more clearance. How much is "slightly"? I dunno..... :)
Generally, a steel/iron sleeve will expand less than a plated aluminum cylinder, so you'd need slightly more clearance. How much is "slightly"? I dunno..... :)
- Thread starter
- #6
yeah I though so too but on the "m" piston instruction sheet from wiesco the instructions say use the factory clearances for both plated and sleeved pistons...
I believe what your saying ...my kdx never ran good untill it was warmed up all the way. I can fit a .20mm feeler between my piston and sleeve so to be safe I will probably go with a .50 oversize cause a .25 would probably fit in now with out machining
I believe what your saying ...my kdx never ran good untill it was warmed up all the way. I can fit a .20mm feeler between my piston and sleeve so to be safe I will probably go with a .50 oversize cause a .25 would probably fit in now with out machining
I think Enco has a decent inside gauge for around $90. Take it to a dealer or a machine shop and have them measure the piston diameter and the inside diameter of the sleeve. Feeler gauges are not the way to go. You have been drinking too many canned beers and posting again, haven't you? :-)
- Thread starter
- #8
no beers,,, must be getting high on all the cleaner I've been using....
I found my water pump bearing in the right case was really rough and made a tool from a double shanked nail and vise grips to pull in out..I hate blind bearings!!!
the pic in the fich is not direct any one know for sure if the 92045A is the case side water pump bearing??
Also picked up a kdx frame, front wheel, tripple, forks and front brake from a guy who was doing a hybrid kdx/kx..
I found my water pump bearing in the right case was really rough and made a tool from a double shanked nail and vise grips to pull in out..I hate blind bearings!!!
the pic in the fich is not direct any one know for sure if the 92045A is the case side water pump bearing??
Also picked up a kdx frame, front wheel, tripple, forks and front brake from a guy who was doing a hybrid kdx/kx..
Its early, whats with the mm measurements? Did I wake up in some foreign land? .002" is a good skirt clearance for oem or wiseco. These seemingly bizarre pistons, are they giving you them for free, or is it really worth it? That cylinder and head could have been on its way back from Forward Motion, fixed and ready to go. He can plate it or bore it more than likely. If you fork over the money for a new piston, and you know the od, a feeler gaige can accurately determine if the bore is good. Snap, or telescopic inside gauges can work, with the right touch, and an outside mic. Inside mics will work, good luck finding them, I do not believe even Starrett makes them anymore. A bore gauge, thats the ticket, or send it to Eric. The blind bearing remover is priceless, or taking it to the local shop, what a headache. Your "tool" worked, fantastic!
- Thread starter
- #11
no man I got the good stuff w/ trichloroethane....
I think I'm going to send everything off to RB designs with a few requests found in reading performance tuning by Gram Bell
such as clearance the power valve, chamfer the piston skirts outer edge and chamfer the ports after the final hone.
after much reading I want to go back with a forged piston 711mo6650 because my cleanances were pretty big and the piston held on where as a cast would have probably scattered.
also the forged piston has thinner rings that reduce friction and heat
I think I'm going to send everything off to RB designs with a few requests found in reading performance tuning by Gram Bell
such as clearance the power valve, chamfer the piston skirts outer edge and chamfer the ports after the final hone.
after much reading I want to go back with a forged piston 711mo6650 because my cleanances were pretty big and the piston held on where as a cast would have probably scattered.
also the forged piston has thinner rings that reduce friction and heat
There is 1 way to find out. .002"= .0508mm, good?
They can plate that sleeve. Run cooler, steel does not move like the aluminum plated. And it should wear less. I figure?
The steel is a LOT more stable than aluminum, yes! You better believe if my old iron goes awry, its going to Eric and get plated! The stock cylinder and stock kawasuki plating loved guys to go long on service, oval cylinders and peeled plating city. I completely forgot about going long on sleeves though, bye bye skirt, some in a zillion pieces. On another note, do you suppose that will be our new national debt word, zillions, I like it! The id of your cylinder would be more than a 350 with that liner out? The ultimate cheater bike? That would be to crazy for Eric? There was another guy though, Peterson(bigger in other racing circles)? I will have to ask a guy who had a 125 done up to a 180 something, it was insane and not reliable though. I think you can do things to trail bikes not recommended for mx? Since Fredette started selling power now look alike's, and I am still leary of RB(eye candy porting), I would still tell you to drop Eric an email at least.
longshore58
Member
- Dec 31, 2008
- 92
- 0
since he "redesigned/improved" his webpage nobody would be able to find anything if he did offer it.
:whoa:
:whoa:
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
- 2
I did the Eric Gorr big bore / port / plating kit and like it.
That being said, I just helped a buddy buy a KDX-220 and am restoring it for him now.
According to the previous owner, his stock piston grenade within the first three months of ownership (naturally), so he bored and plated it to repair it. Not long after, that plating then started to peel, and caught a piston, and grenaded it *again*. Or maybe he was dumb and reused stock pistons, who knows. My guess is that the 220 won't let you bore enough material out to get a clean bonding surface for the nickisil... thats consistent with what Eric told me... he said the 225 big bore for the 200 was the more reliable path, as boring it out removes more of the factory tungsten deposition coating that can interfere with the nickisil bonding. Makes sense, but I am no expert.
Anyway, in disgust, that guy said he he bored and sleeved it in steel. It then proceeded to run like a clock for the next 7+ years, he would just re-hone and slap in a new piston once every season or two. I tore it down last weekend, and everything still looked fine, so I bolted it back together. Looking at his sleeve, I think it was already into the water jacket, but it's hard to tell. Not much material left for boring on the 220.
So nikasil is the theoretically better coating... it transmits heat insanely well and should be very durable. That being said, especially if you start with a 220, I am now thinking going with a steel sleve isn't as dumb as I was originally thinking... especially if you can find somebody to do good work cheap.
That being said, I just helped a buddy buy a KDX-220 and am restoring it for him now.
According to the previous owner, his stock piston grenade within the first three months of ownership (naturally), so he bored and plated it to repair it. Not long after, that plating then started to peel, and caught a piston, and grenaded it *again*. Or maybe he was dumb and reused stock pistons, who knows. My guess is that the 220 won't let you bore enough material out to get a clean bonding surface for the nickisil... thats consistent with what Eric told me... he said the 225 big bore for the 200 was the more reliable path, as boring it out removes more of the factory tungsten deposition coating that can interfere with the nickisil bonding. Makes sense, but I am no expert.
Anyway, in disgust, that guy said he he bored and sleeved it in steel. It then proceeded to run like a clock for the next 7+ years, he would just re-hone and slap in a new piston once every season or two. I tore it down last weekend, and everything still looked fine, so I bolted it back together. Looking at his sleeve, I think it was already into the water jacket, but it's hard to tell. Not much material left for boring on the 220.
So nikasil is the theoretically better coating... it transmits heat insanely well and should be very durable. That being said, especially if you start with a 220, I am now thinking going with a steel sleve isn't as dumb as I was originally thinking... especially if you can find somebody to do good work cheap.
