Are we killing our own sport?

[sonnysair6]

Yes i can drive two hours to ocotillo, and no i don't know how to get involve in dirt bike activism, cause i live far away from any riding spot. The way i preserve these OHV areas is through my fees, Have you ever been to Ocotillo or Mojave, there is nothing there, these towns sole means or surviving is the people that go riding up there. So I am guessing if you move to Borrego Springs you know what your going to be dealing with. If they ever take away a place like Ocotillo for riding, then we have to ask another question "Our we killing our Earth", because if cities like SD and LA get sooo crowded that people have to move to Mojave or Ocotillo then, we would have greater problems to deal with. Look it is awesome your writing letters and stuff, i don't have time for that i am finishing college, and starting my own business. So yes only time i have is those weekends when i go riding (city hall is closed on the weakends). So for right now I will keep preserving our OHV parks by paying my Fees. ANd bringing more of my friends into this sport, who are also paying there fees, and promoting this sport.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Our club (Midwest Trail Riders Assoc.) has club property that is two hours away from where most of us live, in the St Louis area. We put on the "Show-Me 200 National Dual Sport Ride" every year...... people come from all around the country to ride it. Our 200 mile trail route is an enormous task to maintain/get ready for this ride. I'm feeling guilty because I've only made it down to the property four times in the last couple months to help with trail maintainance, restroom construction, campground clearing/cleanup etc. Been riding ONCE in the last three months. There are (as in MANY things) a select, hard working few that do the mojority of the work........ behind the scenes, while many of these people go totally unrecognized. If you WANT to get involved you will, or vice-versa. It's an expensive sport. You play, you pay.

 

[Ol'89r]

THere you go, you just set the perfect example on how regulations and fines can kill this sport, you told me to find a new hobby,

WHy most of these people are worried about on this thread is that they are no longer going to be able to ride in their properties or the places closest to them. For example we us to ride a mile away from my buddies house in Riverside, but they are no longer allowed to ride there because as the years pass the houses started getting closer and closer, and people started to complain. Look if you really love this sport, you would not mind driving an hour to Glen Helen or 2 and a half to Ocotillo. STOP BEING LAZY..

 

[fatcat216]

So yes only time i have is those weekends when i go riding (city hall is closed on the weakends). So for right now I will keep preserving our OHV parks by paying my Fees. ANd bringing more of my friends into this sport, who are also paying there fees, and promoting this sport.

That's cool sonnysair6. I think ol'89r's point is, before you go to the trouble to post an opinion "loud pipes are part of the sport and quit your crying if you don't like it" that you think of the consequences of that sort of attitude.

Secondly, a letter to your city council or federal agency could be accomplished in the same amount of time as arguing and being pissy on the internet. I won't go into the credentials of the guy you are venting at. You might do a search on his name however. It would be worth your effort before you say anything more.

Tony Eeds,Truespode,Muddslinger and others have posted some really good information on how to get involved on one of these forums. Check the Land/Legal Protect Your Rights forum. This thread, however, was just about educating oneself on how we are hurting ourselves with the "it's just fun, so what" testosterone attitude.

There are a lot of really great people working hard to help you have a place to ride. Being ugly to them is shooting yourself in the foot. They are doing the work you don't seem to have time for with your busy schedule. A cheerful thank you goes a long way in encouraging these people to stay at a hard task.

And if you won't say it, I will...Thanks gang. :nod:

 

[fatcat216]

Blue Ribbon Coalition

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=90164

One action alert of interest:

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=11239941&PROCESS=Read+More

 

[krushnburn]

No doubt they can be / are loud ... our very own 2-T test bike in the new Dirt Rider Mag barely made sound, there were 4-T's that blew less sound. Yeah, our 2-T is a ported 500, but still....

I will disagree that the sound of the 2-T's "travel twice as far", it's commonly known that the 4-T's freqs are guilty of that very thing.

Actually 2-T frequencies travel twice as far since mid and high end frequencies are 2x+ faster than bass frequencies. This is due to bass frequencies being so slow that dissipate much quicker.


Anyhow, thanks for the education on "LOUD IS NOT COOL". Im a new-born rider. If it wasn't for this thread, my rookie a*s would still think that loud bikes are rad.

 

[Ol'89r]

Ll

THere you go, you just set the perfect example on how regulations and fines can kill this sport, you told me to find a new hobby, when i Absolutely love this sport, I go almost every week if i don't go to Glen Helen I go to the Ocotillo, I love this sport, so i am not just a monthly or every now and then rider with toy haulers and money, i already invest plenty of money riding every week and i am just saying more fee's will hurt the younger generation like me,

WHy most of these people are worried about on this thread is that they are no longer going to be able to ride in their properties or the places closest to them. For example we us to ride a mile away from my buddies house in Riverside, but they are no longer allowed to ride there because as the years pass the houses started getting closer and closer, and people started to complain. Look if you really love this sport, you would not mind driving an hour to Glen Helen or 2 and a half to Ocotillo. STOP BEING LAZY..

I did read your whole post including the part where you told us to STOP BEING LAZY. I didn't see anywhere where I misquoted you. I like a little noise too but when it is one of the main reasons with losing riding areas we need to step back and re-evaluate what is important.

I have no problem with driving to a riding area. I have driven thousands of miles to ride/race a motorcycle. I have been to Glen Helen, Star West, Perris and all of the so cal tracks so many times I can't count them. When I was younger and lived in Downey, we used to ride our motorcycles down the San Gabriel river bed to Seal Beach and then up PCH to a little practice track next to PCH where Marina Pacifica is now. Never had to worry about getting busted. When I lived in Lakewood right next to your home town of Long Beach, I used to drive to Gorman, Kennedy Meadows and a place called Holiday up the other side of Mojave to ride and traveled all across the country to race. So, I have no problem with driving to where I want to ride. I also have no problem with driving hundreds of miles to a BLM meeting when our riding areas are at stake.

You sound like most of the people I talk to about attending meetings. "I have to go to school/work." "The meetings are during the week and not on weekends." "I still have my little riding spot to go to and I don't care about those other places." "I'm just a kid and I don't know how to get involved." Well, I'll tell you how to get involved. You can thank me later. ;)

First of all, sending your money to the green sticker fund is a waste of time and money. ( I know, It's the law.) These fees are being used against us. The green sticker fund was originated with the main purpose of creating and maintaining OHV parks. When the program first started many new parks were created. Now these fees are going towards enforcement. There have not been any new parks created in 20 years. Many of the existing parks are being decreased in size. The fees have been more than doubled this year and now on top of the green sticker fee we also have to pay for the Forest Adventure Pass just to park our tow vehicles in the forest. The Elsinore Sheriff Dept spent $160,000 of our green sticker money on a truck, trailer and several hi buck quads to patrol the hills and kick us out. The San Berdo police just spent over $200,000 of our green sticker money on the same thing. The envirowacko's have figured out how to get their hands on our green sticker money and use it for species protection and buffer zones for parks that don't even exist. So, keep sending that money in so they can use it against us. :| If that is not reason enough to get involved then I don't know what to tell you.

A better place to spend your money would be to join one or more of the many organizations that are actively fighting for our side. There are many off road organizations that will do the work for you if you are too busy to attend a meeting. Just send them money. They will also keep you informed as to where and when the meetings are in case you ever feel a need to attend one. You can go to your local dealer and buy a Cycle News newspaper. They stay on top of current laws and most of the off road organizations advertise in there. There are many links to our political rep's that we can send a letter or email. In the time it took you to respond to my post, you could have done that. :nod: There are hundreds of posts about land closures and what to do about them on the internet. All you have to do is a little searching. Saying you don't know how to get involved is a cop-out.

It's a personal choice. You either get involved or you don't. No excuses. If you think they can't shut down Occotillo or even the Mojave desert, I got news for ya'. Like I said, there is a geothermal power company planning on shutting down about half of Occotillo. The Mojave is under attack and many of the places we used to ride are now closed. Last weekend I went to the Colorado river to visit a friend of mine.(Drove over 200 miles.) ;) Just two years ago we used to ride all of the sandwashes and trails around there without being hassled. Now, the BLM has posted those washes and trails with wilderness signs and they patrol and give big tickets for riding there. A friend of mine was coming down a ridge and saw several BLM rangers at the bottom of the trail so he took an alternate trail. When he got to the bottom of the alternate trail there were BLM rangers waiting for him. He was arrested for evading arrest. He was never warned or told that he was under arrest and never had any contact with the rangers until they stopped him and never even tried to run. But now he may have to do some jail time.

This is some serious stuff going on here folks. I guarantee you guys, if we don't ALL get involved with the political side of off roading, there won't be anyplace to ride legally in 10 years. There may be tracks but many of those are under attack also. Mostly because of the NOISE we all love.

BTW, I can still ride on my property and in the local hills because I dualsported my trail bikes and can now legally go most anywhere I want to ride. I don't waste my money on green stickers anymore.

sonnysair6.
If I haven't pissed you off too much I would like to invite you out to my place and show you some really good trails. I'm a bit older than you but I'll try to keep up. And, it's only 45 minutes from Long Beach. (On a good day.) :laugh:

Ol'89r

 

[Ol'89r]

Blue Ribbon Coalition

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=90164

One action alert of interest:

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=11239941&PROCESS=Read+More

Thank you fatcat. :cool:

 

[High Lord Gomer]

city hall is closed on the weakends

LOL! Does this imply they are open on the strongends?

BTW, I can print out your posts and send them to you if you want to use them as justifcation for a refund from your college. I think they owe you buckets!

 

[DocWito]

im new to bikes and im sure you lot have good reasons and know so much more but i must add something which has been running round my head especially the past 7-8 years.............all around me there are more and more regulations and rulez for everything........noise, housing, licencing, work, privatisation, etc........it seems that everybody has a problem with everything and wants to get some rulz made to stop it or change it......this is the main problem if you ask me.........one day were gonna need a licence to buy food from the store!!!

since i was small if i hered a loud bike coming down the street my heart would jump and i would stare in awe.......seems bikes have always been pretty loud......just part of it :)

 

[jjm525]

This post ran up 6 pages on Thumpertalk in the last 48 hours or so,,,

Long story short,,,well its still gonna be long

I'm a long time member at a AMA MX track with over 40 years of history promoting MX. Like every other track in the world we have new neighbors building homes and tightening our property buffers more and more everyday.

The 4 stroke boon is a noise revolution within our already loud sport, our starting gate drops and can be heard by one of our members on his front porch at 5 miles away from our track. A single 4t MXer can be heard pretty clearly at 2 miles away, and very clearly at our neighbors homes, many within a mile of us.

We tried a dozen Db Dawgs in every bike we could. At under $50 they are effective at WOT, cutting the sound dramatically and were cheap and easy enough to install and remove. A local pro ran a RMZ450 with a open full Yosh for a 30 minute moto, we added a Db Dawg to his bike and he ran 3 more laps all at the same 1:21 lap time of his practice. WOW, didn't hurt the fastest guys lap times but went from a tremendous racket to a 3.5 hp mower output in sound!!!

But remember, every 15 year old Novice needs to send thunder thru the valley!!! We made Db Dawgs mandatory at our track for members and their guests on non-race days. With a single clip adjustment to my JD jetted 450 I couldn't feel any difference in power though I noticed I needed to adjust from riding with my ears as I was over jumping everything on the track.

The problem, a few MXers feel that they have the right to make as much noise as they want,

first, because "we were here first"

second, because the bike can't be fast without noise

third, because we like it loud and finally

fourth, the bike will blow up because of back pressure. "It will burn the valves and just blow up".

My own 450 has 91 hours on it total, 51 with a Db Dawg and no valve adjustment needed but they are sure their bikes will not last a week because someone said they will blow up, though they can't explain the reasons why this might happen???

These points are apparantly indisputable and I can't seem to find the kryptonite to dissolve any of them. I'm not going to bother defending the quiet bike issue, if you don't get it you apparantly can't be convinced by sound reasoning and logic, test results or lap times. Your the one who will still go buy a freeer flowing & even louder pipe even though Jeremy McGrath has stated he can't use all the power of a stock 450.

Here is my question, why dosen't the AMA really drop the friggin sound limits at WOT, the test in place now is at 50% RPM limits, nobody is complaining about a bike at half throttle. My bike hit 94 db with the stock pipe, all good & well under the AMA limits, but would hit over 120 db at WOT, as in really riding it!!!

I'd love to see a MX or off road mag really put a test to the "loud is power" BS and run bikes back to back or against open piped bikes to finally prove we can race and ride really quiet bikes without having any more tracks closed because of noise. Our own riders are putting the rope around the neck of MX, they are making it easy for "them" to shut us down!!!

FMF makes the great Q4, one of our riders is a solid A class athlete, with a hearing disability. He rode his 250f with the Q4 and felt no difference in power, said it was less vibration in the bike. He qualified for LL with the Q4. One of the fastest riders I know and you can't hear his bike at 100 yards away under full power!!!

Loud pipes fool riders into thinking "speed". Noise is converted into power in the human mind, even if the bike is actually slower. The open piped bike without correct jetting is a classic case, the guy with the popping lean 450 jerking around the track, you know him and so do I!!!

AMA, Dirt Rider, Dirt Bike, MX Action!!! Somebody step up before we are all forced into arenas, we are loosing the outdoors, fast. In a sport that already is in the cross hairs of the Sierra Club and Green movement can we really afford to piss off EVERYBODY??? Count the people on your street who will not care a whit if your favorite track/trail/ORVP is closed for good? How many will be happy to see your bikes rolled into a dumpster so they never have to see/hear it again? How many of us would want to be bombarded by the same sound levels in our homes on any day of the year???

Sorry if that is too much of a vent, (I know its a loooong read) but I ride as much as I can, I'd rather nobody knew it, nobody was pissed about it and nobody ever tried to stop me from doing it!!! ,,,

***New user here, hell of a first post right, not the usual hi, how ya doing drivel but bla, bla bla,,,

I see a editorials & comments about keeping bikes quiet and then a few pages later a MX bike with a full open performance exhaust with the old "closed course" exemption BS. If that noise was somehow blocked at the edge of that closed course, fine, but it isn't and that is a big part of our problem.

How about a real test of 250f & 450fs with a stock, performance and QUIET exhaust, like the FMF Q4, with a variety of skilled riders and LAP TIMES!!! I've timed it, seen it, and had to tell the pro rider he was just as fast when he was making NO noise!!! The TT thread is a good read if nothing else, we need to do more, everyone. Thanks.

 

[digifox]

I know that feeling

i`m not the only one that ride around here(on the trail by my house)
there are quads,2T and 4T`s

the 2-strokes you can`t even hear until to walk IN the woods(where the sound reverbs off the trees and such)
the 4-strokes you can hear them at my house...and farther away
the quads aren't really all that loud..

like my bike..Yes my "silencer" tip has been taken off and its a little noisy just sitting close to it. but when i`m riding through the wood everyone says they cant even hear me.

 

[flyingfuzzball]

the reason people hear the 4t through the trees is because its more of a bass sound and bass travels farther and isnt dampened as easily.

its kinda like when you are sitting next to some annoying person at a redlight and they listen to rap with the bass turned up really loud and you can hear it perfectly through their car and yours.

 

[motocross3]

Even if you get a magazine to do the loud is power test you'll still have the guys that go buy a loud exhaust, then go riding. The first thing they'll say is listen to how it sounds, but its a great idea cause it will change some of the serious riders who want to save this sport. Another idea is to get all the pro guys to use quiet exhaust systems and promote them

 

[motocross3]

I hate when you can hear someone elses music, and my friend has a crf 230 completly stock and its way louder than my KX 125, i can ride mine down the streets and they can barely hear me but he starts his up and they can hear it for miles, I'm going to talke to him about the Q silencer

 

[kim80y]

DB Snorkel!!!!

If you want a quiet 2 stroke, and its even been tried on a few 4 strokes, get a Db Snorkel, it got my YZ490 down to below 92 Db at 5500rpm, way more RPM than tit needed to be for the sae test!!!
Excellent article!!!

 

[Motomingo]

I didn't read all the pages so if im bringing up something someone else did i apologize

Its not all people putting on loud pipes i uncorked/jetted my CRF230 it made it louder not to a huge sound change but i'd say 25-35% louder its still probably louder than it needs to be.
The one thing i can appreciate about my YZ250 is that altho those 2-strokes are high and raspy the "high" pitched noise doesn't carry as far as those damn 4-strokes. All those loud pipes have to do with those young punks who put crap on there stupid little civics, or at that any other little sissy imports. I do know that my old mans 66 Chevelle is way louder than any dirt bike i have ever heard. It has 3" flowmasters running through with a big block 462 under the hood. All in all I have to say that they're going to have to catch me and take my bike away for me to stop riding.

 

[XRpredator]

. . . they're going to have to catch me and take my bike away for me to stop riding.

They will. You'll run out of gas and have to go back to the rig sometime.

 

[Rubey]

The following text is from a RacerX interview with Marc de Reuver after he took third in the first 450 moto at Southwick.

"You also have the Honda factory bike this time, too. Did you bring your suspension settings from Europe, or are you riding a purely American bike?
At home, I also have the same bike. The exact same bike, same suspension, same engine... it’s so loud! If you came with that bike in Europe at a practice track, they’d shoot you with a gun, man – the track owner. He’d lose everything when you come with a bike like that. So we put, like, a Europe muffler on – a longer one – but it’s still loud. And we put on a heavier flywheel to tone it down a bit. It’s still a little bit too fast for me, but I can handle it now."

Point being... is that louder does not equate to being faster.

 

[fmfsv5]

i puy in my ear pohnes for my ipod so that nothing is able to distract me when i am riding my bike around the trails and i just run stock but if the exhaust is louder it will give you more horse power because on little fiftys when you take off the silencer for the pipe it is loud as no other and it gives it more horse power. when i rode that bike with the silencer off it made me wheelie so louder is more powerful

 

[Ol'89r]

i puy in my ear pohnes for my ipod so that nothing is able to distract me when i am riding my bike around the trails and i just run stock but if the exhaust is louder it will give you more horse power because on little fiftys when you take off the silencer for the pipe it is loud as no other and it gives it more horse power. when i rode that bike with the silencer off it made me wheelie so louder is more powerful

It sounds like you wear your ear phones for your ipod during your English/grammar/spelling classes too. You shouldn't do that. It makes you sound like a complete idiot. :nod: :coocoo:

Just my humble opinion. :laugh:

 

[Hevster1]

On one half of the equation you have those who feel their genitalia increased in size by running the loudest pipe possible. On the other hand you have those who know that loud bikes = less ground.
Bottom line is that Mike Lafferty's bike is quiet. Most pro's don't need loud bikes. Why do you? Are you faster than them?

 

[Wolf]

This is probably the one instance where I go against everything I believe in and want more "government"....the AMA needs to step up. The current sound tests are a joke, no matter what number db they mandate, I haven't seen anything enforced at a track. Obviously we as a dirtbike community have proven that we are too ignorant to govern ourselves, the manufacturers haven't really changed anything, the aftermarket companies are still not getting it, and the local clubs aren't going to turn you away with your loud pipe, they need your money...so...AMA...get your heads out of your collective arses, implement a drastically lower sound limit, and enforce it. Test sound at actual riding levels, not at 1/4 or 1/2 throttle.
Our sport needs a shake up...like a 92 db limit at WOT...

 

[zachattack1]

hmm, it isn't a dirt bike without noise but I agree. For me, we own 100 acres and just a few neighbors so i really don't need to worry.

 

[diesel23]

everyone has to do it

I like the idea that you sould have a quieter bike to race. If you get aworks or gnccs to make it a rule than people would not like it but would understand. But no one is going to do it one there own they would be at a disatvantig.