cast vs forged pistons
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That, is the worst reason in the world, to not run the pistons in mx bikes! They are both 2 strokes, then that's it. Its like I do not like oranges, so I will not buy apples? What next, quad testimonials? Vintage BobFNG said:
It sounded so familiar Julien: http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=178509 . The last few posts say it all. Dang it, I can not find the old beating a dead hose gif! FNG and I have debated this same thing before. The Hayden and road race bikes was better. Come to think of it, the applications are closer related, to themselves. NOT dirtbikes. Sorry. Vintage Bob
If that is the way you take it, what ever? If I was posting bs, guess what would happen? The dead horse gif is funny! Your friend, believe that also or not, Vintage Bob
2strokerfun
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- May 19, 2006
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Was reading a couple of old articles from 1973 magazines on the introduction of the CR250M elsinore last night. Both articles mentioned the specially cast ART piston with "extra porosity" to help retain oil better. Honda spin doctors were apparently making a point to show the magazine guys this during their 1-hour introduction to the bike at Indian Dunes. I never noticed they were any different than any other cast piston, but I never read tried to compare them, either. I'll bet most of the thousands of elsinores never saw a cast piston again after the first overbore back in the day, though. The way I ride, a soft clay piston would probably be fine....
Wait till we get our hands on the cast iron coated bores, kind of again? Vintage Bob
whenfoxforks-ruled said:
Sooo, personal experience is not a good reason eh?
You use lots of it to justify your use of forged pistons vs cast.
It would seem you have many years of experience in the dirtbike world, for the record I have spent 25+ years porting, piping big-boring, drag racing, hill climbing and mountain riding snowmobiles so I have a fair share of 2 stroke knowledge. I jumped into dirt bikes 2 years ago as that is a toy I wanted to ride before I am too old to want to. I already did the 3&4 wheeler thing years ago.
I simply offered my experience and you apparently don't like it, or think it has merit. I may have thought your answer did not have merit, but I kept my opinion to myself as it is still someones experience for which the person asking the question can decipher for themselves.
You do seemingly have a lot of experience with snowmobiles and quads. Their needs do have A LOT of similarities. Nothing to do with dirt bikes though, except the name. On the fast edge of mx racing, no similarities on engine mods, oil ratio, or handling. Whats good for 1 use, is not good for the other. Everyone would ride gutless bikes that go 120mph? Vintage Bob
Keep offering your opinion and the facts if you know them. As long as comments are indentified as either a fact or opinion people can form their own opinions. A lot of things are really personal preference depending one what you are doing.FNG said:
Personally, I like to see the pros and cons of everything so I can make an informed decision. DRN is one of the few sites that you can actually get facts and if someone pasts crap they get slammed.
Of course we still have those who ramble on and on and make off the cuff statements and then ramble on and on more to justify what the said. Don’t let those people discourage you from sharing your experiences.
Bob's point is simply that snowmobile engines don't relate to dirt bike engines any more than a 12 cylinder turbo diesel powerplant relates to a 4 cylinder gasoline hyundai engine, and he has a valid point.
Of course your personal experience has merit! However, your personal experience with dirt bikes holds more merit here than your personal experience with snowmobile engines. Two completely different applications, with completely different requirements. The fact that a particular component did not work well for you in a snowmobile engine should not sway your decision on whether or not that component is fit for use in a dirt bike engine. Simple, yes?
Of course your personal experience has merit! However, your personal experience with dirt bikes holds more merit here than your personal experience with snowmobile engines. Two completely different applications, with completely different requirements. The fact that a particular component did not work well for you in a snowmobile engine should not sway your decision on whether or not that component is fit for use in a dirt bike engine. Simple, yes?
Julien,
Bob's points are not in question. I've been helped by Bob in the past and appreciate any of his opinions. But he's not the 2-stroke god, and sometimes he's as full of bs as any of the rest of us, me included.
What is in question is his tactless way of insulting and discrediting anyone who disagrees with him. Most people are too polite to return the insults. I'll regret writing this I'm sure, but I do feel it needs to be said. DRN is going to suffer and lose input from people if this continues, count me out first. As usual, I'll let Bob have the last word.
Bob's points are not in question. I've been helped by Bob in the past and appreciate any of his opinions. But he's not the 2-stroke god, and sometimes he's as full of bs as any of the rest of us, me included.
What is in question is his tactless way of insulting and discrediting anyone who disagrees with him. Most people are too polite to return the insults. I'll regret writing this I'm sure, but I do feel it needs to be said. DRN is going to suffer and lose input from people if this continues, count me out first. As usual, I'll let Bob have the last word.
Holy crap, if the opinion of some old guy( :nener: ) gets your pasties all bunched up you might wanna avoid the internet all together. ;)
If someone's opinion is out of line with mine that's fine, if they wanna slam me for my opinion ,whatever, my skin's thick enough to brush it off. We all tend to carried away with the things we say from time to time.
If someone's opinion is out of line with mine that's fine, if they wanna slam me for my opinion ,whatever, my skin's thick enough to brush it off. We all tend to carried away with the things we say from time to time.
helio lucas
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- Jun 20, 2007
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now, that´s funny :rotfl:_JOE_ said:
Printed word without names is all how you perceive it. That is some pretty deep psychology? If I do not know, I ask. I have done been through almost every wrong turn you can make with a 2 stroke mx engine, found out the hard way. Back in the mid 90's, my Service Honda parts guy hooked me up with Eric Gorr. He truly makes some killer running bikes. 06 I found out why, professor Blair, and I can buy the software to simulate mods before ruining parts! And of course I found all this together here on the DRN. So guess what, I will tell you and hopefully save you some headache? But that is seemingly hard to take for some? On that point you have me, maybe it is Indy's sig line, and I do not hear well? I will not go to name calling and such, sometimes it requires some dancing around. Oh well. Its 1 way, its basic, its easy. Why go trying to make it harder? I do enjoy reading A LOT MORE than typing! Oh, and I do not get any deal, pat on the back or a stinking sticker for trying to help a fellow dolt out! Don't be hating, Vintage Bob
Eric Kropp
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- Mar 14, 2010
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The best thing about this discussion is that I found out that ProX makes a piston for my 1982 IT175.
Eric<><
Eric<><
whenfoxforks-ruled said:
I think you would be very surprised if you looked at the ports in a snowmobile cylinder nowadays.
Maybe they lernt something from the dirtbikes? At least on the intake side for sure.
Fast edge you say? Try a stock 700CC twin running 12-14lbs of boost making 200 HP on 110...
Or a 1200cc triple in the low 200's for hp then you add a 60 shot of wet Nitrous...
The guys on the edge are running Yammi turbo 4 strokes on propane making 350HP at elevation.
These sleds regularly are held WFO for upwards of 1500 ft climbing. Not many dirtbikes held WFO nearly that long.
Figuring out my dirtbike is a lot of fun and very challenging. Riding it is a whole different challenge that will take longer I suspect! LOL
Anyways, good stuff.
Believe it or not, AGAIN. I have an old friend, a pioneer in sled grass drags, and long time drag racer, dad of drag racers. He does not port or mod mx cylinders, anymore. Big Dale Creasy knows? The application is different and has no relation, except being a 2 stroke. All the big cc's, nitrous and what not, a moot point, PERIOD. A properly set up 125 can only be operated correctly by a few hundred people in the country. Try the drag sites or sled sites? Nice personal experience to say the least. But thats all it is, here. Even the race fuel doctor for Firepower will tell you, VERY different needs. Should I start comparing hoarder houses I deal with in plumbing to dirt bikers? Apples to water melons? Guy figuring at best, usually amounts to bs, I did not make that rule. AND I SURE WISH IT WAS OTHERWISE. Thats as far as that goes though, pretending to know. I already had my day seemingly in your boots. I WAS oem cast Bob, I WAS cut the liner out and slam the sleeve in, I WAS go ahead and put some nitro methane in there, I WAS lets port it pretty, and in 79 I WAS taking sleds to snow covered mx tracks, do you get the picture, yet? No more, and thank you objectively used common sense, and THE DRN! Can we move on, as a group, YET? Vintage Bob
Hard core hoarders. Every flyer from the mail, newspapers, and on and on. Paths, maybe 2 feet wide, 1 front to back and towards the rooms. The rest is stacked carefully to the ceiling in spots. Rooms near to the point you can not go in. Then there was a dozen or so, cats, all shapes and sizes. The ammonia stench was staggering. These types are real good for **** roaches also. The dilapidated plumbing conditions are ripe for the brown rekluse spider. That sucker has got me twice in 17 years. Maybe an inch long, and lightning fast, in the black widow family, never seen it or really remember feeling it bite. A few hours later there is this itchy spot, like a mosquito bite. Scratched it 1 time. It immediately started swelling, from about 10~ 12 inch forearms, to over 20 over night. Heck of a way to wake up. The hoarders follow you around to seemingly make sure you do not take some of their "stuff". It takes all kinds? Vintage Bob