Dropping the front end down? how to do it more violently

[nickman1209]

i was racing arenacross this weekend and was doing this tripple and had to seatbounce the crap outta it. and of corse was looping it and had to use some back break but i was still landing really far back. i noticed another rider seatbouncing it and this bike was almost straight up in the air and he dropped the whole thing down like it was nothing.. how is this done??

 

[High Lord Gomer]

The harder you are on the gas for takeoff, the more pronounced the effect of hitting the rear brake in the air will be.

I would suggest geting farther forward for takeoff.

 

[nickman1209]

i really didnt think about that.. thanks dude

 

[KX250Dad]

I'm not sure which AX venue you raced so I can't identify with the triple in question. What I do suspect is you most likely are running the same suspension set up you ran for outdoor MX. If so, that's fine for a novice and mid-level intemediate rider. Obviously, if your a high end "B" or money you've changed your setup, especially rebound... pick and choose what to focus on... should a track have an awesome whoop section then focus the suspension to get thru the whoops the quickest, double a triple in AX doesn't cost as much given the hard breaking required if you triple... you'll make up + getting thru whoops.

Good luck... if your at the Louisville AX look us up. (#56 YZ250 / #56YZ144)

 

[ignition retard]

I've found that when seatbouncing, the farther back I sit the more it throws me forward, sounds opposite I know, but I'm serious. Also the effectiveness of rear brake tapping in the air is related to how fast your wheels are spinning on takeoff. Too get a little scientific: The potential energy in your rear wheel is greater when it has greater rotational velocity, by hitting your rear brake you transfer that energy first to your brake caliper then the swingarm then the whole bike rotates the same direction the wheel was spinning.

 

[xkevenx]

i am told to brake my bike (rear) like ignition retard says. but the fact is i have never jumped higher than 2 metres so i cant talk about it i am still learning.

 

[ignition retard]

i am told to brake my bike (rear) like ignition retard says.

I wasn't saying you should do it. I was saying when it will be most effective. Rear braking in the air is a correction for a mistake, anytime you lock up the rear wheel you lose the side to side correction ability that your spinning rear wheel provides through gyroscopic precession.

 

[2 strokes for life]

I thought that if you hit the rear brake in the air it slows you down? If so why not just huck your pre-loads more foward by shifting your weight to the front of the bike while you pre-load?

 

[Rooster]

:rotfl: Air brakes, eh? Reminds me of a Warrner Brothers cartoon with bugs bunny when he stopped the airplane with "air brakes". :p

 

[2 strokes for life]

I gust remember a disscusion about hitting the brakes in the air and most said it does slow you down.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I gust remember a disscusion about hitting the brakes in the air and most said it does slow you down.

:coocoo: :coocoo: :coocoo:


http://pages.physics.cornell.edu/courses/p101-102/p101/index.html

 

[Papakeith]

yet another rumor beat down by a ruthless gang of facts! :)

 

[Rooster]

I hope Mr. 2TFL enjoys the corner of the room and that really cool cone shaped hat. :nener:

 

[Mully]

yet another rumor beat down by a ruthless gang of facts! :)

Yes, that makes the rumors team record 0 and forever !!

 

[ignition retard]

Come to think about it, you might slow down a little. The bottom of the rear knobby is subjected to relative wind whereas the top is not, therefore stopping the tire would create more aerodynamic drag . Of course this effect would be pretty minor

 

[BSWIFT]

Come to think about it, you might slow down a little. The bottom of the rear knobby is subjected to relative wind whereas the top is not, therefore stopping the tire would create more aerodynamic drag . Of course this effect would be pretty minor

The simple fact is that you begin slowing down the moment your rear tire leaves the dirt, regardless of the accelleration decrease on the face of the jump. You will also continue you to slow down to the apex of the jump and then slow down more(at a lesser rate) on your downward turn towards the landing. Aerodynamic drag is a huge factor in overall distance achieved but tapping the brake is miniscuel(spl?).
Proper suspension setup is the most key component next to technique. As previously pointed out, set the suspension to gain the most advantage on track sections. Keeping the power on the ground will net you faster lap times. Body position will gain/loose overall control anywhere on the track. Technique for certain obsticales must be adapted to track conditions. Keeping your weight farther forward on your CG will help your overall pitch in your tragectory.
Off topic:
A train traveling at 60 mph on level tracks in a straight line will have many points of the train not moving relative to the track surface for instantainous moments in time. At the same time, some parts of the train will be moving in the opposite direction. Any idea which parts? (Excludes all engine and generator components)

 

[High Lord Gomer]

For an instant, the part of the wheel (is that the right term in train-speak?) that is in contact with the track is not moving relative to the track surface (otherwise it would be sliding or spinning (LOL...smokin the tires on a train).

The linkage that drives the wheel at times is moving in a direction opposite to that of the train.

(Am I close?)

 

[BSWIFT]

For an instant, the part of the wheel (is that the right term in train-speak?) that is in contact with the track is not moving relative to the track surface (otherwise it would be sliding or spinning (LOL...smokin the tires on a train).

The linkage that drives the wheel at times is moving in a direction opposite to that of the train.

(Am I close?)

1st one is correct! Good job.
2nd one is less obvious. A train wheel has a lip on it that is a larger diameter than the part of the wheel that rests on the tracks. This lip keeps the train on the track. The lip extends below the track level, thus, at the point directly below the track level, the part of the lip that is below the track is moving in the opposite direction of the train, momentarily. Likewise, the point on the wheel 180 degrees opposite of the point in contact with the track is traveling at 120 mph and the lip extending slightly farther out is traveling greater than 120 mph. Good job, Gomer!
You may think that this is unrelated but MX has a lot to do with physics and physical ability. Understanding the physics concepts and principles will aid in your understanding of what is happening. Now when it comes to FMX, all bets are off! It takes bigger cahonies to do than most physicists have to even contemplate it!
BTW, Gomer, were you videoed with a presidential candidate last week?

 

[High Lord Gomer]

"I did not have sex with that woman!"

Scratch that....

"I would shoot myself rather than ..."

 

[conn424]

I've found that when seatbouncing, the farther back I sit the more it throws me forward, sounds opposite I know, but I'm serious. Also the effectiveness of rear brake tapping in the air is related to how fast your wheels are spinning on takeoff. Too get a little scientific: The potential energy in your rear wheel is greater when it has greater rotational velocity, by hitting your rear brake you transfer that energy first to your brake caliper then the swingarm then the whole bike rotates the same direction the wheel was spinning.

as you increase speed u scoot up on the bike....if ur hauling and seat bounce on the main back of the bike...it katapults you and you endo...

 

[ignition retard]

as you increase speed u scoot up on the bike....if ur hauling and seat bounce on the main back of the bike...it katapults you and you endo...

Yes, absolutely true, I should have mentioned that.

 

[hot125mod]

is it a good idea to pull the clutch in as you leave the face of the jump so as not to kill the motor it used to happen to me all the time, then hit your brake and grab a handful of gas and drop the clutch to get the wheel spinning upon landing.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

I only pull the clutch in if I need to hit the rear brake. If you need to do that very often, then what you really need to do is figure out why you are taking off with the front too high. Most likely it would be because you are not far enough forward on the bike for takeoff.

 

[SpeedyManiac]

I think what 2S4L is trying to say is your lap times will be slower if you constantly use the rear brake in mid-air as opposed to using correct body positioning in the air to adjust the bike's position.

 

[warrior91]

Yes. Fast is directly proportionate to time rear wheel in contact with ground.

Jumping long doesn't necesitate High jumps necesarrily. Try not to load your front susp. as much on take off. Practice/time will let you drop the bike exactly where you want it with just a bit of effort time after time. Moving your mass behind/ahead of center in the natural arc of the jump will become second nature.
....Otherwise just grab a fist full of clutch and Lock your rear...That should get you nose first into the dirt soon enough.