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Jeremy:Honda/Showa Works Fork Kit

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Tokyo Tiddler, Feb 8, 2001.

  1. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    The only thing that I'm still not satisfied on the '01 CR250 is the suspension. After spring changes/clicker setting fiddling/oil level changes (20" wheel even helped some), I've improved it considerably, but still not quite satisfied. (biggest complaint is that it feels very nervous in the woops, although it never really does anything strange.

    Anyway, I thought I'd send my suspension out to see if it can be improved further. I am a vet intermediate, but money is not much of an issue..only "value" is. I have been trying to find someone out there who has experience with the Honda/Showa works Fork kit. I can get it a bit cheaper here in Japan than what Factory Connection sells it for, but I wonder if it is really worth it.. whether there is a big enough difference.

    I had the opportunity to ride a factory Honda 250 with works Kabaya's last year. My first & only experience with true works suspension. My impression was simply that it felt like any ordinary good suspension that was set up plush, but had fantastic bottoming resistance at the same time.. the best of both worlds.. no other magic than that. With the stock forks, I only seem to be able to set up for one or the other. I would gladly pay mucho $$ to have what those works Kayaba's offered.



    Jermey, or anyone, have any advice about whether that expensive kit will get me there or I'm wasting my money??
  2. SUnruh

    SUnruh Rookie DRN Member

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    KYB's on a honda?
    are you sure?
    Showa's have been on the red bikes for years and years. heck, i'm pretty sure honda owns part of showa.
    what about tuning for plush and putting in the anti-bottoming cones?
  3. CRPilot

    CRPilot Subscriber

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    Honda does own part of Showa. If you were not that impressed with the works kit, then why spend the money on it? Maybe it wasn't set up for your riding style. Also, is parts availability and issue with the works kit? I would give Jer a try. For a fraction of the cost you can have excellent results.
  4. IDkTm

    IDkTm Rookie DRN Member

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    I've seen pics of the Japanese race bikes and I've seen a works CR 250 with KYB's right next to one with Showas. I don't know why they do it. The CR 125 does come with KYB on it.
  5. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    To answer your questions above, Both Showa & Kayaba trucks follow HRC Japan around to each track to set up their rider's bikes. They mostly use Showa (even on their 125s), but one or 2 of the HRC riders prefer Kayaba. The bike I rode was a satellite Honda team bike which contracts with HRC for works engines, hubs, titanium foot pegs and the other goodies that you find on HRC works bikes, but their contract is with Kayaba for suspension. These are same dark gold anodized works Kayaba's that Jeremy McGrath & others use.

    I have never ridden a "works-kitted Showa PRODUCTION CR250 fork", hence my original question. I never said I was not impressed with the full works Kayaba's either.

    I have heard from several noted sources that they haven't found a shop yet that could improve on the stock production CR250 Showa fork, hence again I am asking about the kit. I would not necessarily assume that a works kit is as good as a full unobtanium works fork.

    Jeremy W. ..help?
  6. bwalker

    bwalker Lifetime Sponsor

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    Tiddler, Care to spill your guts on what you know about the 02 cr 250?

    ------------------
    Ben Walker
    00 cr 250
    BRC,AMA,NRA Member
    "If Harley built a helicopter would you fly in it?" Unknown sage
  7. DesertDog

    DesertDog Rookie DRN Member

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    I agree with tiddler, I rode a tom morgan suspended 2001 cr250 yesterday, it felt stiffer, thats all, I then rode a box stock cr250, and the suspension felt softer, yet the rear seemed under sprung, and under dampened, meaning it would bottom real easy, and hi speed clicker wouldnt help much?. The front felt harsh in the first part of the stroks, and then went real soft??.
    Hey Toykyo Tiddler, I got my hands on two jap. model 2001 CR'S, they came with piston kits, extra filter, and a new frt brake lever, and full gasket kit, and it had a silencer end cap ?? what do you know about this??
  8. marcusgunby

    marcusgunby Lifetime Sponsor

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    The euro Crs come with a similar kit.
  9. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    World Wide Racer: Thanks, I haven't seen you at the track in a long while. Your YZ250 may respond differently to set up than the aluminum-framed Honda. I hear that it is difficult to make the CR250 stock fork better, that's why I am thinking about the expensive kit, but I can't find anyone that has tried it.

    Bwalker: Only one of the HRC's factory's rider's will be on the new CR250 (another 1 or 2 on regular RC250's and one on the CR450F). In adition to the new "diamond-spar?" frame which has the basic purpose of creating more space around the carb air boot, I understand that it will have an all new CR250 engine. Supposedly these changes will make it in 2002. The 2002 CR80 will have an aluminum sub-frame. First Japanese national is in about 5 weeks and there may be some new hardware to see.

    Desert Dog: I got a top-end kit when I bought the bike, but not from Honda. I got it as part of the deal with the dealer. Honda does not offer a kit with their new bikes in Japan (especially not an air filter), but my Suzuki RM's in Japan always came with a complete gasket/top end/lever kit. Perhaps you have a European or Australian model. Yes, the Japanese CR's come with a silver end cap on the silencer on both the 125 & 250. You can see a pic of my bike on "RM250GUY's" site. I have since drop-kicked that silencer that silencer and saved weight and picked up noticable low-end with an FMF PCII replacement.

    Anyone know about this fork kit????!
  10. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    Yes, Sideways11..let me know how much they were improved.
  11. Jeremy Wilkey

    Jeremy Wilkey Owner, MX-Tech

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    Guy's I don't actually have any exsperience with the Works Showa stuff. So this is purely speculation.

    The twinchamber forks have a couple of flaws that I can see this is why many people preffer KYB's over Showas...

    The bigger tubes on say LARockets bike alow for more diameter internaly wich would be good.

    The standard 23mm Cartridge is working aginst a failry stiff internal spriung to prevent cavation, and improve constitency. The KYB's actually caviate(Until the air spring takes over) for the first say 1/3 or soo of travel. This reducing percieved damping. Most amertuer level riders preefer this. However most expert level riders preffer are more cosistent action, and will trade the forgiving nature of the KYB for a always consistent feel of the twin chammber.

    Now a larger cartridge in the twin chammber would allow a less sen tstive midvalve set-up and would also improve the hydraulic chartachter.. So the forks could be a little more forgiving, yet maintain the consistency that many riders like...

    Couple of quick points:
    Showa Forks stock can be made to work very well:
    KYB's bladder fork is a design that is focused on chnaging the negative KYB characteristics to more favorable twin chammber traits, while still not having hydraulic issues of the Showa..

    Regards,
    Jer
  12. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    Thanks Jeremy. I am waiting for a call back from Showa Japan, today, to see if they will sell me the kit.

    When the track is soft, I don't mind the forks so much, but when it's hard & bumpy..it does a job on my hands. The 20" front tire helped some what, but I want it better and people are warning me that it is impossible to fix the front forks with just a revalve. Putting in a .46 spring in just one side to get an effective .45 rate and backing off the compression a few clicks also helped, but still not enough.
  13. WWR

    WWR Sponsoring Member

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    Tiddler,
    I plan on going to the track this weekend, probably Sunday or Monday. Do you know if they have any races or other big events on the schedule?

    ------------------
    Paul '97 YZ250, '86 VFR400R Mechanical "nut"
  14. marcusgunby

    marcusgunby Lifetime Sponsor

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    I rode a semiworks honda showa fork fitted to a YZ125 and it was a nice fork but it didnt feel anything exeptional.Then again nor did the semiworks KTM fork, but i think the std forks now are with a bit of tweaking not far off the performance of any fork made-i will be happy to be proved wrong by someone sending me a full works fork to test.I need it for next weekend please.
  15. Jeremy Wilkey

    Jeremy Wilkey Owner, MX-Tech

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    LOL Marcus,
    I hope then me a set as well,I'd like to find out how right or wrong I might be.. I'd love to find out.. Althought you might need to have a few extra towels around from all the drewl..
    Jer
  16. Tokyo Tiddler

    Tokyo Tiddler Rookie DRN Member

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    I talked to Showa Japan earlier this week as I heard they had a few kits that they were selling to top Japanese privateers at about $1,200. However, they refused to sell me the kit saying they were only available to the average-joe on the US-side of the planet via Factory Connection ($1,600).

    WWR: There is a big MCFAJ race this Sunday at HARP & Saturday looks like rain. Just got a new FMF SST pipe I'm dying to try out.
  17. firedog20

    firedog20 Rookie DRN Member

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    tokoyo tiddler i race on okinawa japan and have access to go to main alot could you give me locations to go to for tracks and possible places to go for parts.
    jablonsa@hotmail.com
  18. WWR

    WWR Sponsoring Member

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    Tiddler,
    I have Monday off, looks like it might be a good day to ride. Maybe I will even stop by Sunday to see all the action.

    firedog20,
    I am stationed at Yokota AB, email me if you are in the area any time soon.

    ------------------
    Paul '97 YZ250, '86 VFR400R Mechanical "nut"
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