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motorcycle vrs automotive oil?

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#1
Hey guy's I know there's alot of controversy over this and I've always had doubts but this write up really eliminates all the guess work and really give us peace of mind about our precious machines. http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm

Sorry I don't know how to make a clickable link so if someone would tell me I'll edit this and make it clickable. Otherwise you'll have to get the forgotten pencil and paper and write it down for now. Take it easy! Jeff
 

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#3
Yeah Jeff, good article.

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[This message has been edited by dirtdad (edited 03-12-2001).]
 
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#4
Glad you found it useful.There is alot of good info posted by people on this board but unfortunatly alot of it is opinion or here say.So when I read this and saw that it came from a retired chemist from a major oil company and had a career in quality assurance of fuels,lubricants,and chemical products and he and his wife both ride I relized this could be used to stop all the misleading going on and allow us mostly tapped motorcycle joes to save some money. So hopefully more read this article and can use it for referance next time a new comer or someone asks this question on the board. Take it easy guy's !Jeff
 

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#5
This article has about the least amount of real data I've seen on the topic.

Please define what a "friction modifier" is - he sure didn't.

Most of the time it is a big spike of magnesium on the particle analysis chart for the 5W30 EC oils.
 
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#6
I don't think he gave an analysis on oil,that's what all the other authors do and it just makes it confusing as all hell for the common shadetree mechanic like most of us are to understand.He's obviosly of some higher education on oil than probly you and I are and I'm sure he could have made a very educated sounding data as you put it report,however since he and his wife are riders like us and he wrote this for us knowing kids ,teenagers, uneducated ,and know it alls alike would be reading this,I'd say I'm glad he did'nt define friction modifier or vescosity,or ash content,or zinc quantity etc... Because it was a simple article that gave me confidence in my maintance and that's probly what we all look for. Jeff
 
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#7
This article has alot of good info. I personally use Castrol 10W40 and even the mechanics at the Honda motorcycle dealership I work at run it also. One of them however said that the main difference between a motorcycle and auto oil is a motorcycle oil has to run in a transmission, which puts it under alot more stress. That's the only real thing that has me pondering about the differences in chemical make up but I figure better to run thin oil and change often then thick expensive oil and change it half as often!

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TexKDX

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#8
Originally posted by Arizona_Jeff:
Because it was a simple article that gave me confidence in my maintance and that's probly what we all look for. Jeff
I can see the perspective that says we tend to believe those who agree with us.

Hearsay on a 200k mile CBR may do it for some, but personally I prefer more than anecdotal information. Anyone care for another spirited outboard-oil-in-a-motorcycle debate?
 

HiG4s

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#10
WARNING!!!!!
I see NO imperical data to support this articles conjectures.
I cannot beleive this article for one minute. While much of this new SJ catagory may indeed meet motorcycle needs in general, the whole Idea that all SJ oils are the same is hog wash. In the mid 80s, before SJ, Cycle magazine did the research and took several oils of the highest rating, auto and motorcycle alike to an aeronautics test lab where they could actually test the oils. The results of this testing was that all the motorcycle oils performed much better than any of the auto oils. With Castrol GTX performing the best of all the auto oils. And I MUST, say the idea that auto oil should be fine in your motorcycle is abominable. These oils can use, at least in part, oil from shale which contains parafin. This is done because parafin increases detergent rating. The same way some states allow the use of alcahol in gas to increase the octane rating. Parafin can burn and glaze a clutch. Cars do not have oil bath clutches. I rode street bikes for many years and never had a problem until I used Pennzoil auto oil ONE TIME and glazed and ruined a clutch set. I Switched back to motorcycle oil and never changed clutch plates in that bike or any street bike again. Now Pennzoil does make motorcycle specific oil. I still would like to see some imperical data before I use it.
Oh, and just as a note, for 5 years I was a licensed master motorcycle mechanic in Michigan.
You can do what you want, but I will NOT use auto oil in any dirt bike and rarly use it in a street bike. And when I do I only use Castrol GTX.

Final note, I understand Motorcycle Consumer News did auto vs motorcycle oil testing in their Feb 94 issue. I have e-mailed them to try to get this back issue or a copy of the article and will let everyone know the results.

[This message has been edited by HiG4s (edited 03-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by HiG4s (edited 03-13-2001).]
 
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#11
HiG4s - You are WAY over your skis on this one.
That article that was referenced is NOTHING BUT empirical data.
You seem unclear on the meaning of the word so here's the definition:
1 : originating in or based on observation or experience <empirical data>
2 : relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory
3 : capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment <empirical laws>


You need to do some REAL research before you start spouting chicken little NONSENSE. It's funny that someone who claims to be a "licensed master motorcycle mechanic" (whatever that means) hasn't bothered to look in a simple motorcycle owners manual to see that MANY of the manufacturers clearly endorse standard automotive oils.

Use what you want in your bike, but save the half baked conjecture for some other site.

FYI, Motorcycle Consumer News found Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic SJ AUTOMOTIVE oil to be the top performer in their tests. OOOPPPSSS!

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm
 
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HiG4s

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#12
Rich,
I did not insult you and I am offended you you insulting me. Certianly there is a chance I am wrong, and I agree that the person that wrote that article has a lot of impressive credentials. But that doesn't mean he can't be wrong. I am basing my judgment on personal experiences working on lots of bikes.
You can believe what you want. But as I said there is no emperical data. There is plenty of emperical conjecture but where is the data. Where is verifiable data from the expeimentation. As far as that goes my conjuctures are just as emperical as his.

And master motorcycle mechanic is the test you have to take before you are allowed to work on motorcycles professionally in Michigan. Simple as that.
 
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#13
Originally posted by HiG4s:
Rich,
I did not insult you and I am offended you you insulting me.
WRONG. I find it INCREDIBLY INSULTING when someone comes into these forums and starts off their thread with WARNING!!!!! as if we were all feeble minded twits, and then floats up some half-baked theories in an atttempt to pass themselves off as some kind of expert. If you feel the need to post that way then at least have the courtesy to do your homework.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but if post something and present it as fact you will find yourself getting called on clearly flawed points by any number of people out here. If you are offended by that I'm sorry, but if that's the case you are clearly in the wrong place.

FYI, the chemistry "facts" in your original post are wrong too
 

HiG4s

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#14
Home work? will if you will.
you put down the definition of emperical and claimed it is the meaning of "emperical data". If I'm an so wrong then enlighten me instead of being self-rightous.
I am sorry if the word warning offends you. I was not trying to imply that anyone here was stupid. I was trying to make sure everyone realized that that article right or wrong has no proof. And I have seen personally clutches ruined by using auto oil. I also stated right off that it was before the new SJ ratings and maybe they made a difference but I was unable to beleive it. And the reason I can't beleive it is because I have seen no proof.
SO, show me some proof and I will beleive.
Until then I must go with what I have personally seen.
 
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#15
Now now, simmer down you two! No one still has addressed my point of the main use difference between the two oils, cycle oil mean to be used in transmissions and auto oil not! I've actually heard of people putting automatic tranny oil in there bikes because it's so cheap (damn fools)! Do we have a chemist in the house!?

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