Porting, Crank repair, etc.

[DieselTech]

Hello all,

These questions are presented mainly for someone knowledgable, like Rich or Eric, in the specific modification or repair.

I am interested in learning how to do such things as cylinder/head porting, crank rebuilding, port-matching of pistons, etc. I'm considering attending some machinist courses at the local college - I think that would be a good start for the "basics" of machining (which I have no experience in). I'm also interested in custom fabrication/modification, be it frames, engines, etc. - I really have very little experience here as well, though I do all my own maintenance and repairs to my own vehicles, including my quads, MX bikes, truck, etc. I have done some engine work (i.e., I just installed a new head and cams on my son's KXF250, and I recently disassembled a Banshee motor due to a fragged crank bearing) and some other stuff like fork seals & oil. I'm a diesel mechanic by trade, so I have a pretty good mechanical background.

Where can I get specific information or training on these types of things - specifically: porting, crank repair/rebuilding, and custom fabrication? Is this something that a person generally learns by just doing it (and experimenting & making mistakes)? What types of tooling is needed to do these things? I obviously don't have my own machine shop - and I don't think that I can afford to invest in high dollar equipment like that just to pursue a hobby. I'm not necessarily interested in doing this as a change in employment, more due to personal satisfaction (I like to do as much of the work to my stuff myself as I can, and I'm a naturally-curious type of person - I like to learn).

Should I attempt to get a part time job working in a machine shop maybe, for the experience? What equipment can I reasonably afford to get for my shop at home, and what kind of work could I do? For example, the Banshee motor I tore apart needs the crank rebuilt. That's a pretty big job, IMO, but I'd love to attempt it. I'm not sure HOW to do it though, beyond the theory of it. Some things are obvious though, like pressing the crank apart to replace the bearings, but then there's other things like checking tolerances and possible machining, as well as truing the crank.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[helio lucas]

i think books are a good way to learn how things work...
do a search about the subject and you will find very good information... from eric and rich among others including mr. blair...

 

[Rich Rohrich]

For fabrication work look for the books and videos by the following guys :

Ron Fournier - His books are the gold standard on fabrication.
Metal Fabricator's Handbook, by Ron & Sue Fournier
Sheet Metal Handbook, by Ron & Sue Fournier

His videos are excellent as well. I buy most of my fabrication equipment from his company. They are great people to work with. http://www.fournierenterprises.com

Ron Covell - His videos on fabrication and welding are outstanding - http://www.covell.biz/

Fay (Mr. Yoder) Butler - http://www.faybutler.com/ -

John Glover - Any book or video with his name on it is worth studying (Ron Fournier sells John's stuff )

Ron Covell and Ron Fournier also do training seminars so that's worth looking into.

Lincoln Electric has great welding training at their facility in Ohio.

As Helio pointed out books are the best starting point to learn about performance modifications if you are just getting started. A couple of authors worth investing in are :

A.Graham Bell has some great books on performance tuning for two-strokes and four-strokes . Lots of solid hands on modification info and enough theory to have it all make sense.

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Stroke-Performance-Tuning-Bell/dp/1859606199

Eric Gorr's books have a wealth of useful info on tuning and maintenance. They are an excellent investment and should be in everyone's collection.

Gordon Blair's books on two-stroke and four-stroke design and tuning are the equivalent of a college course in engines. They aren't cheap, and they aren't easy to get through, but if you can get through them you will come away with a proper education.

http://www.sae.org/technical/books/R-161
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_TYP=BOOK&PROD_CD=R-186

As for hands on practical knowledge, working in a shop with experienced people doing all the low level dirty jobs is the way most guys I know got started.

You'll figure out what equipment you need as your knowledge grows and your focus narrows a bit. Find some aspect you really enjoy and then pursue it with all your energy.

Good luck :cool:

 

[DieselTech]

helio & Rich,

Thank you for your responses. I already have some of Eric's books, and I've been reading some of the more technical threads on here lately as well. I was actually planning on getting the SAE paper R-161 (? I think, if memory serves) written by Prof. Blair.

Alas, you can only learn so much by reading and at some point you must start doing, right? That is where the issue for me will be, as I know of no place locally that specializes in any of this type of work. The few people that do any of it have the market cornered, so to speak, and really don't have full shops with employees - they sub the stuff out to a machine shop for the big $$ equipment-required work and do the rest themselves. So, my best way of gaining experience right now is by doing it to my own stuff, or maybe friends - but you know how that can go - so to be safe, mostly just my stuff. For example, I have a banshee crank that needs rebuilding - I see a perfect opportunity to learn by using it as a learning "tool". If I get it right and I can use it, great, as it saves me the expense of having to get a new one ($$$). If I muck it up, no biggie, as it's useless to me as it is right now. I'd rather pay money for tools and try to do it myself than send it off and pay to get it done. Sometimes that's not practical though. Problem is, I have no one locally that can help me learn to do it right, so I'm on my own.

Again, thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Working on your own stuff and gradually taking on more complicated tasks is also a good way to go. Lots of the guys have been down that road and learned a lot.

 

[Ol'89r]

Ron Fournier - His books are the gold standard on fabrication.
Metal Fabricator's Handbook, by Ron & Sue Fournier
Sheet Metal Handbook, by Ron & Sue Fournier

As for hands on practical knowledge, working in a shop with experienced people doing all the low level dirty jobs is the way most guys I know got started.

Diesel Tech.

I second Rich's suggestion on Ron Fournier's books on fabrication. Excellent, easy to understand books.

I was lucky to work in a couple of shops with some very sharp people that taught me how to do this stuff. You may want to attend a class on basic metallurgy. It is very important to know what alloy you are using when you bend, form and weld metal. Take aluminum for instance. Not all aluminum can be bent without cracking. Not all aluminum can be welded successfully. A study in metallurgy will teach you the difference in the different alloys and why they are different.

Many factory service manuals, not owners manuals but FACTORY manuals go into detail about things like cam timing and crank rebuilding and balancing. Some of them even show you how to build the special tools for doing these operations. Tools like crankshaft alignment pots can be made from large diameter pipe. Honda and Yamaha manuals are very good and even some of the old British bike manuals go into great detail. Some things like crankshaft truing are still done in a very crude manner. For crank truing, you will need a B.F.L.H. That's a big freakin lead hammer. You can't buy a BFLH anywhere so you have to make one. You will also need a dial indicator and a truing stand. In leu of a truing stand you can put the crank between centers on a lathe.

Tools can be collected as you go. A small lathe and mill can usually be found rather inexpensively through some of the machinery trader sites. Older American made equipment is in many cases better than the newer import stuff, if it has been taken care of and usually comes with some tooling. You can find used boring bars there also.

Sheet metal tools can be found at places like Eastwood.com. They also offer bead and soda blasters and many trick hand tools for forming metal.

If you don't mind sending your money to China, Harbor Freight offers a three-in-one machine that will do light duty bending, shearing and rolling. They also sell a 20ton press for around $250 that will do most every crankshaft you will you will ever need to do. If you really want to do some fancy sheet metal stuff, they offer a English wheel for about $200 and a planishing hammer for under $100.

Tig welding machines have really come down in price and have features that make them much easier to use than the old machines. They also use less electricity and take up less space. If you are going to fabricate metal, a tig machine is a must. I know this fella in Chicago that has a really nice one for sale. Still got that one Rich??

Good luck with your endeavor and if you have any questions, just ask. :cool:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

I know this fella in Chicago that has a really nice one for sale. Still got that one Rich??

Yep, my Lincoln Squarewave 175 is still sitting under a tarp in Dr. Dave Redszus garage, since I got my new high zoot Miller Dynasty box . One of these days I'll get around to putting it up for sale on one of the local Chicago car club forums and be done with it. :whoa: