Quick Poll. 2-Stroke, 4-stroke or both

2-Stroke or 4-Stroke

  • 2-Stroke

    Votes: 454 60.0%
  • 4-Stroke

    Votes: 146 19.3%
  • I have both

    Votes: 157 20.7%

  • Total voters
    757
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SpeedyManiac

Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,378
0
Both have their place. I just switched to a two-stroke, although I still like thumpers. Hopefully I can pick up a used XR250L for cheap sometime down the road as a playbike, and a CRF250R for moto, then keep my GG for off-road racing!
 

Magellan

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 14, 2001
193
2
I voted before the "dirt bikes" only comment. Does my trials bike count as a dirt bike? Sure as hell can't ride it on the street.

Soon to be 2S-Only though.
 

redramhemi

Member
Jan 27, 2004
84
0
2 stroke. I like an engine I can do a top end on in 1/2 hr! :cool:
 

bud

Member
Jun 29, 1999
433
0
Interesting result. I was thinking 4ts would outnumber 2ts 10:1 these days in the US... I'm sticking with my 2 strokes as well for the time being.
 

OldTimer

Member
Feb 3, 2005
475
0
bud said:
Interesting result. I was thinking 4ts would outnumber 2ts 10:1 these days in the US... I'm sticking with my 2 strokes as well for the time being.
It's not the riders that are clamoring for 4T's and I think this pole proves it.
If you get the 'ole "tractor" type 4T trail bike then you can ride for years with just fresh oil and a clean air filter.
There's definately a nitche for 4T's, but I think that 2T's are just plain more fun! :cool:
 

JPIVEY

Sponsoring Member<br>Club Moderator
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 9, 2001
3,180
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I would like to see a newer poll, this one is 2 yrs old, I'd be curious to see how much it has changed, if at all

I thought I would never go 4s, but the last 4-5 yrs that's all I've had, now I don't think i would go back to a 2s
 

a454elk

Mexicutioner
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 5, 2001
7,538
18
I agree Jim, lets get a new one started cause I'm thinking I won't be buying another 2 stroke. I'll keep the one I already have for kicks, but that'll be the end of it.
 

DWreck

~SPONSOR~
Apr 14, 2002
1,480
0
Two stroke here. My next bike will be the same. I would like a 450 for the track. I'm surprised by the results so far. I really thought the 4 strokes would out number the 2 strokes.
 

bike_rider250

Member
May 6, 2005
127
0
well when i went to the Canadain Motocross Championship like a month ago the 4-strokes out numbered the 2-strokes by a lot there was like 2-3 2-strokes to every 10 4-strokes but down in the U.S is where the biggest stars are so w/e just saying my 2 cents
 

dirtbikr99

Member
Nov 21, 2002
180
0
Right now I currently do not one either a 4 or 2 stroke. My 2 stroke was stolen and with college I am still saving up for a new bike. Before my bike was stolen I would say 2 stroke forever but now faced with the fact I need to purchase a new bike. I feel my race results will suffer if i stay with a 2 stroke. I believe 2 strokes are better than 4 strokes when evenly matched 2 stroke 250 to a 4 stroke 250 but with the double the cc for a 4 stroke, there is a deffinate advatage for the modern 4strokes. My next bike will deffinatly have a camshaft.
 

ComradeMikhail

Mi. Trail Riders
Member
May 2, 2005
244
0
2 Stroke for me.. I love the power delivery and the powerband. I'll stick to 2 strokes as long as I can.
 

Harley_rider

Member
Sep 25, 2005
6
0
From a Mechanics point of view I prefer 4 strokes, they weigh more and have more moving parts in the engine which is a draw back for most people but, because of the oiling system they last longer and require less engine rebuilds.
Cheaper to operate and less polution because of no oil mix in the gas and uses less fuel because of not having an open port on the compression stroke.
Even with low compression can be started easy because of the valve system gives better compression.
I dont get to ride dirt though because all my dirt bike time and money is spent on my sons bike, so my 2 cents is strictly form working on engines for 27 years.
 

motometal

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Sep 3, 2001
2,682
3
Harley_rider said:
From a Mechanics point of view I prefer 4 strokes, they weigh more and have more moving parts in the engine which is a draw back for most people but, because of the oiling system they last longer and require less engine rebuilds.
Cheaper to operate and less polution because of no oil mix in the gas and uses less fuel because of not having an open port on the compression stroke.
Even with low compression can be started easy because of the valve system gives better compression.
I dont get to ride dirt though because all my dirt bike time and money is spent on my sons bike, so my 2 cents is strictly form working on engines for 27 years.

While I respect your experience as a mechanic, I don't agree with all of your opinions. Regarding how long the engine lasts, take a look at Eric Gorr's suggestions on four stroke maint...any more than 30-50 hours without replacing parts, and you are asking for trouble. That's two hours a week average for 25 weeks. I've seen many 250 two strokes go way longer than that without any loss of compression or failures. No worries of wearing through thin coatings on the valves.

Not following you on the valves and ease of starting, go to any race and you can bet that the guy stuck in the corner kicking and swearing is on a four stroke, as opposed to the two stroke where it generally starts within a few kicks even if it was laying down for a while. Yes, the starting has gotten better, but still not equal.

The technology is out there to make two strokes very emissions friendly, look what they are doing with outboards. Properly designed exhaust with efficient scavenging forces that unburnt fuel right back in the chamber to be burnt, not out the tailpipe.

- - -

What this really comes down to isn't which one is superior mechanically or otherwise...it all about marketing, and government regulation, and the politics of the AMA and FIM etc.

The factories are loving every minute of it! All the guys that are switching back and forth are buying bikes! I've seen many cases of guys going 4, then back to 2, then a few years later back to 4 because they are improved, then back again. Funny thing is, the used two strokes are cheap but no one wants a well used four stroke either! Not knowing about oil changes and valves, chains, cams, how they were treated. Now is definitely a buyer's market on used mx bikes.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the AMA changed the displacement rule to 200 and 400 (like they should have originally), somehow they would have to grandfather in the current bikes and I really can't see how that could be practical. What a major screw up!

one more thought...many of the same guys that wouldn't dream of putting a heavy flywheel on their two stroke mx bike because it isn't "racey" or popular with the mx crowd, will hop right on a heavier, slower revving four stroker without a second thought. Part of the reason that four stroker exits the corners better and has more hookup, is due to it's slower revving and greater rotating mass. Which many have discovered isn't always a bad thing.
 

Harley_rider

Member
Sep 25, 2005
6
0
motometal said:
While I respect your experience as a mechanic, I don't agree with all of your opinions. Regarding how long the engine lasts, take a look at Eric Gorr's suggestions on four stroke maint...any more than 30-50 hours without replacing parts, and you are asking for trouble. That's two hours a week average for 25 weeks. I've seen many 250 two strokes go way longer than that without any loss of compression or failures. No worries of wearing through thin coatings on the valves.

Never in my experence have I ever had to spend that much time on maintence on either a 2 or 4 stroke,
never had Valve problems because of any coatings, steel valves arent coated, most valves and seats can be reground to proper sealing and that is after years of use in most cases.

Not following you on the valves and ease of starting, go to any race and you can bet that the guy stuck in the corner kicking and swearing is on a four stroke, as opposed to the two stroke where it generally starts within a few kicks even if it was laying down for a while. Yes, the starting has gotten better, but still not equal.

From experence 2 stroke with 65 pounds of compression will not start, 4 stroke with 50 pounds will start.


The technology is out there to make two strokes very emissions friendly, look what they are doing with outboards. Properly designed exhaust with efficient scavenging forces that unburnt fuel right back in the chamber to be burnt, not out the tailpipe.

the oil mix is the main waste in 2 strokes, you burn 4 ounces per gallon of oil, in a 4 stroke in good condition with no leaks you only burn gas.
- - -

But I am not a dirt bike racer so my openion is strictly based on experence from working on engines and the frequency of major repairs.
4 strokes are much more complacated to work on but once you know how they are a piece of cake.
The main thing is if you find a bike you like and it gets the job done for you then you are all set, be it 2 or 4 stroke.
 

motometal

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Sep 3, 2001
2,682
3
It sounds like you have experience with older four strokes, like the XR. On these bikes, the valves are steel like you said, no coating, generally checking and adjusting the valves is something to do on a rainy sunday afternoon...they just don't move much or require much maintenance. The new generation of four strokes are a different story, I think the titanium nitride layer on Honda valves for example is about .0002" thick (i've analyzed similar parts with similar processing but haven't cut a Honda valve yet). It's very hard on the surface, way harder than the seat but very thin. Once you wear through that it's time for new valves.

regarding oil usage, if a two stroke is jetted properly most of that oil gets efficiently burnt, and doesn't even make much smoke. Yes, there are some emissions you can't see. The four strokes have issues too, just different ones. Have you heard about the CRF250 Hondas that people are running out of oil when new? Some of them actually use quite a bit of oil, especially when not broken in yet. Where does that go? Also, the oil changing maint schedule on new four strokes has you needing to dispose of way more oil than a two stroke. Where does that go? Some of it is disposed of properly, some of it no doubt is dumped in the back yard or the storm sewer.

I think the starting issues have more to do with the four only coming up on the compression stroke once per kick, plus they seem to be more picky on having just the right fuel/air mixture. I'm really not sure of all the reasons, just know which is easier to start, especially when dropped.

at the end of the day, the bottom line is that if the factories spent all of their resorces just on the one engine design (two stroke), we would have a lighter, more powerful, simpler, cheaper bike. But, no use in fantasizing about it, that's not our reality.
 

mike black

Member
Sep 16, 2005
14
0
my 2005 crf 450 sucks in the bush because it gets way to hot but in sand and on the track I love it. i had a 2002 rm 250 and it is nothing to the crf450 on the tracks i ride
 

Paulo

Member
Mar 24, 2005
4
0
I'm just buying a 4-stroke for trails but I have a 2-stroke for MX.
I don't think I'll ride 4-stroke in MX tracks.

boooooo....booooooooo......what a sound!
 

Sandjunky

Member
Feb 3, 2004
318
0
I had the opportunity to ride an 03' CRF450 the other day. I was amazed by the difference. I have to say I liked it, but I really like my 05' KX250 and I'm sure it will last me for years.
 
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