Race Tech Gold Valves in a 2000 CR250

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#1
I'm having Race Tech Gold Valves installed in my 2000 CR250 and I'm wondering what to expect.

What I'm hoping for is less bottoming on large jumps. Large jumps seem to raise hell with my body, my position on the bike, etc. I think that maybe I'm too far over the bars on the landing because my arms seem to be soaking up most of the impact causing me to lose all my form and get wobbly on the larger nasty jumps.

I'm hoping that the gold valves will give me a bit more confidence to jump some things I usually shy away from for fear of coming up a bit short on the landings - primarily doubles. I'm told that the gold valves should soak some of that up, if not, most or all of it, sending less of a jolt up my spine.

Anyway, I'm having the front forks and rear shock done. I have no idea what the ride will feel like or where I need to set the clickers, so I'm gonna put them all to stock settings to start with. I'm told that my springs for my bike (2000 CR250) are optimal for a 180-185 lbs. person in street clothes. I'm 6'2" and at 189-193lbs in street clothes depending on the day, but I'm working out and I've come down from 250lbs. since June of last summer so I expect that I'll be down to 180 in a month or so.

Anyone with insight and a reply would be greatly appreciated by me


Thanks in advance,
Jas

ps. Shameless plug: The guy who is installing my gold valves has a website at http://www.gpsracing.com/

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Jason Boche
AMA # 487624
District 23 Motocross #092
 
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#2
Forgot to add a thing or two here to wrap it up.

I'm a little sketchy on the re-installation of my forks. I went out and bought TWO torque wrenches. As it turns out, the first TW I bought was for 45-250 foot pounds.. way too much (no pun intended). I then bought a 5-100 foot pound torque wrench. I understand it's important to torque those triple clamp bolts just right.. not too tight and not too loose (for obvious reasons).

1. Should I thread lock the triple clamp bolts?

2. Any insight on installing the forks properly without having them "bind" because of a misalignment with the wheel?

3. Should I threadlock the axle clamp bolts?

There's a technique out there that explains how to adjust the forks in the triple clamps so that binding does not happen but I failed to comprehend part of the procedure.

Here's the snippet I'm talking about:

Forks been off ? Are they HARSH? Check this:
When forks are put on the motorcycle, it is very important to align the tubes. This is done by first tightening the axle all the way. The tubes are then aligned by pumping the forks up and down with the right hand axle clamp loose. This will line the tubes up so they don't "bind". Finally don't foget to tighten the the axle clamp. (And of course have fun!)

So after I pump the forks up and down, do I tighten the right axle clamp with the bike on it's own free weight? Maybe this doesn't matter and I'm worrying about nothing significant.

Thanks,
Jas

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Jason Boche
AMA # 487624
District 23 Motocross #092
 
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#3
Actually it is significant. Forks that aren't centered can cause binding, stiction and other problems. Heres what I do.

I tighten the axle nut. I go ahead and tighten the axle clamp on the right side. This would be the side if I were standing in front of the bike looking at the fron number plate. Make sure the left side is loose. Sometimes I pry it with a srew driver to make sure it is loose.

Stand in front of the bike. Hold your knees against the front wheel, grab the bars and pull down on the bike compressing the forks several times. This will help to center them. Finally spin the front tire and then lock the front wheel with the brake. Now tighten the left side and torque it. All done


You shouldn't have to use loc-tite on the fasteners. If anything I would use anti-seize or a thin grease agent and then tighten to the proper torque.

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Vester
96 RM250
"Let's see if an "A" rider tries it first.."
 
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#4
Thanks for the info.

Question: Shouldn't one of the forks be tightened in the triple clamps? If they are both loose, compressing the forks will make them slide up the clamps. My assumption is that one side is tightened, and one side is left loose for adjustment to bring it in line with the other fork tube.

?????

BTW, I love your signature ... pretty funny!

Jas

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Jason Boche
AMA # 487624
District 23 Motocross #092

[This message has been edited by [-V-]icious (edited 01-22-2001).]
 

JTT

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#5
Jas, for what it's worth, I'm 185-190lbs w/o gear, 6'0". I installed stiffer springs front and rear on my '00 CR250 and they made an enormous improvement. Much plusher initial ride, with better bottoming resistance. I think you will find that the stock springs are actually lighter than what they are rated at.

I strongly recommend you consider springs, and not necessarily Honda ones (as I did), go with RT, or MX Tech springs or something of a "higher tolerance" (they are better than the Honda ones
).

As for the fork installation deal, Vester has it right. No, you don't have to have the bike under it's own weight, you can put it back on the stand and re-torque...and yes it can be significant, making forks harsh.

Good luck and let us know how you make out this the Gold Valves.

JTT
 

JTT

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#6
sorry....yes, clamps should be tight first, tightening bottom clamp only on both sides.

[This message has been edited by JTT (edited 01-22-2001).]
 

MACE

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#7
If it's not too late, have Jer do your suspension. His stuff does exactly what you want. I'm fully convinced that the value of Gold Valves is in teaching you to do your own valving. If you pay someone to do it, you could get just as good a job done by revaling a stock piston.

Been there, done that. MX Tech on bike, GVs for sale.
 
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#8
[V]icious,

Your forks already have an equivalent of the Race Tech Type 1 Gold Valve in them! The stock Showa fork piston will mimic the RT part in terms of flow area. So, unless your getting Type 2 pistons, which you should be, your gaining nothing with them.

The Showa forks run a tight midvalve and a .052 bleed in the rebound piston to compensate. In my opinion, the rebound action is then somewhat compromised by this bleed. Race Tech setups normally ditch the midvalve, and in this case it would be a mistake as the midvalve would contribute to your bottoming resistance. Once this is removed you have to make up for that loss of bottoming resistance in your compression valving which can potentially put you closer to compromise in chatter bumps. Can you say harsh? Your looking at compromise in your valving arrangement. What you'll end up with is a stack that will be too soft initially in order to keep harshness out of the picture in the chatter.

And, you better ask George to rate test your fork springs for you. Every set I tested last year rated light and would work optimally for a guy of 160lbs at best.
 

JTT

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#9
Originally posted by Shocknut:
[V]icious,

The Showa forks run a tight midvalve and a .052 bleed in the rebound piston to compensate. In my opinion, the rebound action is then somewhat compromised by this bleed.
Shocknut, can you elaborate on what you mean by a "tight midvalve"?

Thanks,

JTT
 
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#10
Hi fellas - thanks for all the GREAT feedback. I emailed George and sometime soon he should be stopping by this thread to read what you have to say (and hopefully respond).

GPS Racing has done suspension modifications for many district 23 racers here in Minnesota and I consider him quite knowledgeable on the subject.

We'll see what he has to say.

Thanks again,
Jas

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Jason Boche
AMA # 487624
District 23 Motocross #092
 
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#11
JTT,

It basically means that it doesn't float away from the piston face very far. The travel is rather limited. It won't pass as much oil through or as freely like a YZ style midvalve or a standard check plate would, hence they bleed the piston to promote greater flow. The thing is, this configuration seems to work OK. Actually, looking at this thing I would think it would be almost a problem, but it doesn't appear to work that bad judging by the fact most guys are happy with their forks even in stock trim. I don't think it causes any major problems in the compression stroke, the rebound just seems weird at times. I have watched the front end bounce back up after slap down jump landings on my riders bikes but will also admit they never really complain about it either.
 

JTT

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#12
Ahhh, now I understand...thanks Shocknut!

I hate to beat a dead horse, but...(I always seem to) couldn't you easily "loosen up" that valve by cutting the little alum. seat that it bottoms on? Are these parts purchaseable? This would allow the valve to open further...and maybe the bleed hole could be blocked off and eliminated?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that this little mid-valve is the secret key to good fork action...maybe?

By the way, good to have you back! Haven't seen too many posts from you lately.

Thanks,

JTT
 
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#13
JTT,

There would actually be a few options to improve it, and I will likely be playing again(as usual) this summer. But yes, there would be things you can do with it.

And I believe the midvalve is beneficial to fork performance rather than a hindrance. Anytime you can shift bottoming resistance away from your shim stack that is going to be good. The more bottoming control you have to place on your shim stack the more potential your going to face towards being harsh in the chatter bumps, creating a compromise in control. Thats why I am an advocate of the bottoming control products I use. CR riders would be wise to consider the aftermarket ABS pistons that are available out there. That helps too!