RJ-KDX

~SPONSOR~
Aug 12, 2002
258
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FYI-ALL: the stock KHI chain for a KDX is an EK520SR. This info was in the manual and on the website.

Ski- Sorry I don't have a stock chain on anymore for you comparison, I am still running a DID 520 O-Ring that I put on in early 2002 (bought bike used in late 2001).

I pressure wash my chain and then WD-40 it. Sometimes I chain-lube it after it dries and sometimes I chain-lube it before a ride, but mostly WD-40 on it all the time.

(enter name here) As far as the riding goes in '02 I put in 883 miles, and for '03 I have in at the middle of the year 564 miles. Not to shabby for August 2003 being my 2nd year of riding. :moon:
 

skipro3

Mod Ban
Dec 14, 2002
902
0
Jaybird. I never thought too much about lubing the outside of the chain for wear resistance between the chain and the sprocket. In my experiance, the lube attracted more dirt that causes more wear than a dry chain would cause. Plus this dirt now stuck to the chain can find it's way into the innards of the chain much more easily than if it wasn't there to begin with. I am starting to think here that my chain lasts so long compared to your experiance because your "maintenace practices" are causeing premature wear for a chain in the environment a dirtbike exposes it to. Keeping dirt and other abrasives off the chain is obviously extending my chain life and applying dirt attractants are causing premature chain wear in your chain life. A sealed, o-ring chain, washed with water only and sometimes a wire brush for the big stuff works. As far as still questioning the hours I log riding, well, what can I say. Nothing obviously since you are going to form your own opinion and not trust my word.
 

XRDadKDXBeni

Member
Aug 27, 2002
46
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Entertaining....for a while. But like all other opinionated-based discussions they tend to deteriorate with each response. Wibby ought to be banned from the website for his lack of taste and compassion in linking the special olympics picture. Lets all hope that when he does go riding, he never hits his head hard enough to become handicapped. Lets all pray that if he ever has a child, it will not be born handicapped - cause then "Dad" may regret some things.

Bottom line - chains wear. some wear quick, some not so quick - many factors affect this - you're both right. XRDad: 387 motorcycles owned since 1966.
 

skipro3

Mod Ban
Dec 14, 2002
902
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Well stated XRDad. I don't think wibby meant any disrespect, just a touch of humor when things were getting testy. I have made my point as much as I can. I didn't change Jaybird's opinion of chains and he didn't make a dent in mine. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and we both enjoyed the debate. (NOt easy to do on-line). So, unless there is anything new to respond to, I plan on bowing out and call a draw. Jaybird, thanks for the weekend of discussion in what would have been a dull holiday. (I don't care to travel with the mobs and idiots on the highway during holidays if I can avoid it)
Later Dude.
 

wibby

Mod Ban
Mar 15, 2003
997
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Sorry XR, I sometimes forget, Southerners sometimes can't comprehend the West Coast sense of humor...

When me and my Dad lived in Alabama, he'd tell this one joke at the bar and have all the women ROTFLTAO! but if you looked at their boyfriends they were all gagging and covering their mouths trying not to puke! ;)

If I hit my head that hard hopefully CC will just shoot me ;)

BTW you might wanna go look at that pic again....
 
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40

Member
Nov 12, 2002
16
0
Originally posted by Jaybird
A ring chain only protects the pin/bushing friction area with a factory placed bit of lube. This lube will also be consumed in time and there is no way to replace it, but I won't even go into that fight now.

How is this lube consumed?? Did you mean that it leaks out? Just curious... and trying to understand.
 

instin

~SPONSOR~
Jul 29, 2002
24
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I believe the non O-Ring "KHI" chain is for the 2003 kdx200. The 2003 KDX220 comes withe the O-Ring "Enuma" chain. that is what is listed in my 2003 owners manual.
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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re: 'A 12 is hard on the chain, thus hard on both sprockets...
Which is cheaper, a chain guide or a chain and sprocket set??'

Certainly a 12T CSS is harder on a chain than a 13T.
A chain guide is certainly cheaper than a chain and sprocket set.

Seeing as I don't plan on going to anything 'safe' (read: 17T) anytime soon, why worry?

I got about two years and just over 2000 miles on my last RK x-ring (two CSS/one rear sprocket).

I know a local rider that just replaced his oem chain on his cr500 after something like six years! He dumps motor oil on his chain. What a mess!

It suits him, so it tickles me.

BTW...it's 'F-d Up Beyond All Recognition.

.....can be rendered 'fouled up' to the same end.

Jaybird is right about everything he's said about chains.

Unfortunately....or not...I just don't care.
 

40

Member
Nov 12, 2002
16
0
Originally posted by canyncarvr
Jaybird is right about everything he's said about chains.

I'm not saying Jaybird isn't right... I would just like to know how the lube inside a ring chain is "consumed". If the seal stays intact, the lube should be in there doing it's job. Right??
 

canyncarvr

~SPONSOR~
Oct 14, 1999
4,005
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I wouldn't think so.

With continual pressures, heat and age any lubricant is going to be 'consumed' from the standpoint of it being able to do its job...or not.

The 'jay's right' wasn't intended to be a rebut of your question.
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,452
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Charlestown, IN
First, Ski....most lubes on the market are indeed grit and dirt attractors. One must use the proper lube if one wants to have good lubrication without attracting dirt.
And second, I spend far less time than most by using a dry-film type lubricant. It not only does not goo up and create a grinding paste, it also serves as a water dispersant so no WD-40 step is needed. Clean the chain, put on the lube, spin the wheel to make sure lube penetrates to all friction surfaces, wipe clean with a rag. Dry-film will dry to a semi-dry state leaving the chain looking like it has not been lubed at all. It also make chain cleaning a breeze since all you do is wash it off with water. There may be a blackish coating left visible on the sprocket teeth, but that is simply lubricating solids that are adhered to the asperities of the metal surfaces.
And yes, tribology teaches us that lubriant will definately break down in time due to friction, and heat created by such. ANY grease is nothing more than oil whipped up in a soap base, often times lithium. Once the oil leaves (or seperates) from the soap base and its lubricating properties are broken down, what you have left is a thick, nasty goo that does little for helping reduce wear from friction. Open a can of grease that has sat for quite some time and you will notice a puddle of oil on top. That is natural seperation of the oil from the soap base. Cheapo greases will seperate much faster than a quality grease will.
If lube in a sealed area didn't break down and become less useful, then in theory a chain that never has a violated ring should last forever. That's not the case, as we well know.

Oh, and ski....throw away that wire brush. :) ( no way am I calling a draw...LOL! )
 

skipro3

Mod Ban
Dec 14, 2002
902
0
I finally agree with you Jaybird:
1. Grease is oil and soap whipped together.
2. Dry film lube works as you said. I use it over plastics on my bike. Specificy, Pyroil Silicone Lubricant. It releases dirt from plasics easily when I wash the bike. I also use it on boots to waterproof.
3. We both know what tribology means (I'm impressed)
4. A wire brush in the wrong hands is bad for rubber o-rings, but so is a gun and I'm not throwing either away.
5. A draw it is then.

Now, how about that geography lesson on Indiana you were going to enlighten me with?
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,452
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Charlestown, IN
OK, well...
Southern Indiana is hills...lots and lots of hills. The degree of incline in the riding areas around here are equal to the degree of incline on any riding area you have. You may be able to continue finding these inclines up to a higher elevation than I can, but I assure you that you have no steeper climbs than I do, that you or I can ride.

Also, wire brush in ANY hands is wrong for o-rings. There is no way that your hands are more surgical than anyone elses and a wire brush can cut a ring in the blink of an eye. Funny how you do everything that one shouldn't with a chain and yet yours is indestructable.
 

KelvinKDX

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Aug 25, 2000
1,622
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Originally posted by skipro3
3. We both know what tribology means (I'm impressed)

Main Entry: <B>tri·bol·o·gy</B>

Pronunciation: <TT>trI-'bä-l&amp;-jE, tri-</TT>
Function: <I>noun</I>
Date: 1966
<B>:</B> a study that deals with the design, friction, wear, and lubrication of interacting surfaces in relative motion (as in bearings or gears)
- <B>tri·bo·log·i·cal</B>&nbsp; <TT>trI-b&amp;-'lä-ji-k&amp;l, tri-</TT>/ <I>adjective</I>
- <B>tri·bol·o·gist</B>&nbsp; <TT>trI-'bä-l&amp;-jist, tri-</TT>/ <I>noun</I>

OK - i had to look it up even though i knew what it meant by your usage of it.&nbsp; :)
 
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TVRider

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 29, 2002
356
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Houndog,

That may be a dry film lubricant, I'm not an expert. I think Jaybird would recommend you go to www.mx1000.com and buy their dry film chain lube, but he can't because that would be spamming! :eek: So I am. ;) This whole discussion as convinced me to try the digilube product and my hat's off to Jaybird for resisting the urge to plug his products. I think Wibby tried to do that in an earlier post, he's just more subtle than I am. :p

I've learned way more about chain maintenance in this thread than I had ever hoped to know. Thanks guys. :thumb:

Tom
 

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Mar 16, 2001
6,452
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Charlestown, IN
Bel-Ray Super Clean is not a dry-film type lube. In tests on a Timkin machine, SuperClean is not very high on the scale. In fact, my competitors fluids blow it away as far as lubricity goes.
Some folks really like it, but they are yet to discover the advantages of using a thin-bodied, high performance, penetrating fluid that actually treats the metal surfaces and uses lubricating solids.
('Bird is so close to spamming here it's not even funny! :) and he hates spam...LOL)

Thanks TV, I am pleased you have found something that can be of help through my ramblings.
 
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