Son with bad grades. Do I take his bike away?

[nephron]

I can tell him to go clean his room and when I go up there hes playing on his game that hes grounded from. His reply is that he forgot, which I hear alot, and hes not lying because he really does forget. I don't know what to do.

It's ALWAYS sketchy giving parenting advice, because none of us here are any better than any other at parenting or raising children, and the ultimate outcome is typically a combination of genetics, upbringing, luck and circumstance. So what follows is just what I can add based one what's not yet been said.

Rob--yeah, he's lying. That's not ADHD. You know better than that, man. They're not stupid, and some of the greatest manipulators of adults. It's the nature of the beast. When my son pulls that crap, he gets one of a few choices, one of which is a stiff asswhippin'. He usually doesn't pick that one, for some reason. Go figure. I can only remember doing it twice, but don't forget the power of 'wait 'til your father comes home.' Remember that one? It works. Better than anything. And you don't have to touch them--just fear. And then work them until they're sick. I really pissed my dad off once, and remember using a hand-held weed hacker with a dull blade for 2 weeks, every night after school (4th grade) from our house to town, 1 mile distance, both sides of the highway, 5 feet in. I had gotten about 1/4th of the job done and came home one day to see that he was happy with it and had mowed the rest of the highway ditch on both sides with a PTO-driven 20 footer and a 75/20 John Deere. :)

Another thing to consider, is the 'play' b/t parents and children is a complex function of marriage dynamics, etc. You know what I mean. As parents, we've got to make damn sure we're setting the example first. Doesn't make a CRAP what you say to them, or even how you punish them. Not even how you follow through with the punishment. Nothing is more important than what your kids are seeing you do under similar circumstances. Even harmless conversations about work that day can make our own children wonder what kind of character we have, and what sort of strength or resolve we have. Everything we say or do in their presence is considered fair play. And it affects them deeply. Don't underestimate that effect.

A lot of it is just flat out genetics---my daughter has been kicking hard since the womb, and to this day is crazy OOC all the time--gets bent out of shape quick, has no fear of anything, and is definitely showing the signs of adrenaline addiction at the age of 1. While my 6 y/o son is sweet, kind, honest....you get the point. They're just different. And IMO, although seemingly 'unfair', sometimes punishment doesn't fit the crime equally--all these kids have to be treated differently, because while one WILL respond to an ass whippin', the other will revolt against it yet respond to a soft voice, etc....

To the original question, IMO it's not ever good to take time WITH your son away from him. ie, if you guys ride together, and it's time together, and it's typically quality time together...don't take it away. Do something else. Depends on what he responds to--he WILL respond to something, you've just got to find something that doesn't interfere with your and his time together.

All that opinion being said, take it like a butt dyno, as we can't measure childhood outcomes in response to what we've done with them any better than MXA can measure a change in motor specific output after changing to a billet carburetor screw and 'running' a gripper seat cover. :silly:

 

[80dad]

good luck my son has lost riding privileges off and on this year because of grades also. after telling him what was expected and doing what ever i as a single parent could do to help as talking to counselors and teachers.we had to resort to this. progress reports came out grades where down lost priveleges and then grades came up at report card time and back down at progress report time again he did pass and is back to riding maybe the worst of this is when we go to the track and he seee kids he was beating riding better than he . always remember our actions will speak louder than our words.
GOOD LUCK

 

[RIDING ROB]

Thanks for all of your replies.

As far as him lying. Trust me. I know when my son is lying. He is the worst lier in the world. He did go through that stage a few years ago and learned quick that he was'nt good at it and that I won't tolerate it (excluding white lies).

As far a ADD (or ADHD, which is what I think they call it now), I ounce felt the same as all of you. Especially after researching the symptons and figured they applied to every kid (myself included). I even know kids who, in my opinion, have been poorly diagnosed, just parents with no patience. But I have also talked to quite a few parents who have ADHD children. They tell me how their kid's grades, self estieme, confidance, and all around quality of life have drasticly improved with propper treatment. It just got me to thinkin.

Back on the sbject. I don't remember if I stated earlier that this is not his first bike. He started off on a little XR50, which his previleges have been rmoved on newmorous occations, with no results.

This is starting to sound like a nature vs nurture debate, which is fine. I am very interested in all of your ideas and opinions.

Thanks again!

 

[RIDING ROB]

PS

We just got his report card yesterday. He past!!!!!!

But here are his teachers coments:
"His behavior causes him much much trouble. He is far too interested in his neighbors. He causes problems in the restroom line, lunchroom, library, and class. He is restless and unable to consentrate on task at hand. His impulse control is poor. He acts before he thinks. He is not focused on class instructions as he needs to be. His focus is not learning but disrupting. He disrupts class frequently which affects his and others learning."

 

[Philip]

Ann & I take away Josh's riding PREVILEDGE when he brings home bad grades. It is usually the last step b/c its like I'm punished too, but we have to do something. Tough Love :(

 

[tnrider]

Don't completely take it away - but use it as a reward for meeting intermediate goals. for example - don't wait for the new 6-week report. if he studies and does his homework on friday/saturday, reward with a ride on sunday. otherwise, he may develop the attitude of "i can't attain dad's goals or is too far away - so who cares..." you most certainly don't want him to feel that it is too far away or difficult and small tastes of success will keep him coming back for more...

 

[James980]

Buy a bike and start riding WITH your kid. Ride like we Chicagoans vote: early and often. Drag him out of bed at 5 a.m. to get to a far off spot early. The drive and talking will do you both good. Do camping trips. Build campfires. Get him into racing, but always go on your rides together. Your personal involvement in his experience of the joys and pains of dirt biking will bring him around. Screw just standing there watching him. As far as getting in better touch with him, you might as well be watching him play Playstation. Ride with your kid. It makes all the difference.

When my kid acts crazy, we load up and go riding and act crazy together. It works.

James
00CR250

Originally posted by RIDING ROB

I don't know what to do.

 

[CRF4me]

Originally posted by RIDING ROB
PS

We just got his report card yesterday. He past!!!!!!

But here are his teachers coments:
"His behavior causes him much much trouble. He is far too interested in his neighbors. He causes problems in the restroom line, lunchroom, library, and class. He is restless and unable to consentrate on task at hand. His impulse control is poor. He acts before he thinks. He is not focused on class
instructions as he needs to be. His focus is not learning but disrupting. He disrupts class frequently which affects his and others learning."

This sounds like my boy. We were struggling with the same stuff. My wife has researched ADHD. While reading the symptoms I felt that I could have been diagnosed with it when I was a boy. I'm glad it wasn't invented then! I had grounded him from his KTM65 which he loved dearly. One day he crossed the line with momma(in a big way) and we decided we had to make a point. I advertised the bike and it sold in a couple of weeks. It was the hardest thing that I have ever done. It broke my heart to carry out this ultimate punishment and brought him to tears when the bike left in someone elses truck. We discussed how we got to that point and agreed that if his behavior met our expectations that he would earn another bike in the fall.
Now the good news! His behavior has improved at home and in school. We started fishing together and he looks forward to that now. There is more time to talk about stuff when you're sitting in a Jon boat and plenty of things to learn about. I am now in search of the new ride('04CR85) but the purchase is still a couple of months away. He is now very aware that riding is a privilege that will come from proper behavior.
I know selling the bike was severe but so was his lack of resect for others. I was afraid that he would be diagnosed and medicated since I feel that the symptoms apply to most 9-10 year olds. He's not a bad kid, just unfocused. All is going well now and I am looking forward to the fall riding season.
Dan
sometimes ya gotta make your point

 

[Sawblade]

Originally posted by Whyzee
Have your son get together all his gear, bag it up and put it away. Then have him push the bike to the corner, lock it up and hand you the key ... all with the understanding that when things get better you will consider letting him ride again. Don't back down.

My son's passion is football. About half way into his 5th grade season one of his teammates wasn't at practice. This was strange as like our son, him and his parents never missed a practice. About 30 minutes into practice I look up and here comes this kid walking across the field in front of his Dad. He is carrying his pads and helmet, with his head hanging low. After a few words with the Coach. Practice is stopped and all the kids are asked to listen to what he has to tell the team. With tears in his eyes he tells the team that his grades were not were they needed to be to play football. He apologized for letting the team down then handed the Coach his helmet and shoulder pads. I tell ya, there wasn't a dry eye around from the parents watch practice to everyone of this kids teammates. Later that night as we were talking about what happened, my son said Dad, I never want to have to do that because of my grades. I reinforced that if his grades fell, that's how he would leave the team. Not from a phone call from his Mom or myself to his coach.

So does this type of punishment work. IMO, yes, but it has to be in place at the beginning with clear guidelines and what will result if grades are not maintained.

Also, as a parent if you "ground" you son from the Playstation, remove it from his room!

 

[James980]

Hey, it sucks it had to go that far, but congratulations on working hard, doing the right thing and not taking the "easy way" out and letting the school jack your kid up with drugs. If more parents were as dedicated as you, then maybe ADD wouldn't have been "invented," as you put it.

Of course, if more teachers, who always seem to be the quickest to suggest the medications, were concerned with helping all the kids and not too busy planning their next contract negotiation and subsequent strike -- it amazes me how $60k/year with three months off isn't enough for these suburban high school teachers -- then the whole ADD movement probably never would have gotten off the ground.

James

Originally posted by CRF4me

I know selling the bike was severe but so was his lack of resect for others. I was afraid that he would be diagnosed and medicated since I feel that the symptoms apply to most 9-10 year olds. He's not a bad kid, just unfocused. All is going well now and I am looking forward to the fall riding season.
Dan
sometimes ya gotta make your point

 

[Patman]

We try to keep a good read on what our son's current passion is so that when we have to restrict something it stings. Sometimes it's the dirtbike, sometimes TV & game sysyem, or sometimes just totally grounded. He tried to pull the "Oh I forgot..." business about twice with the game/TV and I told him that the next time he "forgot" I'd just take those things to Goodwill so it wouldn't be a problem for him to remember, it's never happened again. We've been pretty lucky as he's not caused too many problems after we got a few of the ground rules sorted out.

On the ADD/ADHD front we were down that road with his 3rd grade teacher. The first 2 months of school she kept bringing it up. I finally got tired of her and called his doctor to schedule an appointment. The doctor got on the phone and told me not to waste my time as the first part of the year he has a huge number of teacher diagnosis's coming in and that our son was about as far from that end of the scale as was possible. We also found out that this teach had been saying the same thing to at least 75% of the partents in the class! That being the case she, the principal and myself had a little "conference", that stopped it cold. Besides that we had a few other problems with the school that caused us to decide to move. The new school district has a higher rating than the previous and the skills tests results are significantly higher. Every teacher at the new school has been highly complimentary of our son. His grades are much higher and he enjoys school now. On the flip side we have friends that my wife and I were totally convinced their son was pegging the ADHD meter! We just saw them this past weekend after almost a year (they were our neighbors in our old neighborhood) and their son was tested and put on medication. Because they waited until the last part of the school year and he just scraped by they decided to hold him back a year in school in addition to getting him accessed and treated. Well all I can say is I am TOTALLY AMAZED! This kid had one of those insane laughs (real high pitched and fast HEheHEheHEhe) and couldn't sit still for 2 seconds, he would never "hear" you and always "forget" his punishments but never something positive. He now acts like the majority of kids his age (like little boys but can sit still and focus), his grades are much better, he'll actually carry on an age appropriate conversation and laughs like most kids (more HAAHAAHAA). They did not let the school do the accessment though (something ou son's doc also said not to let happen!) they went to the childs doctor and he did an accessment in conjunction with another doctor and a child behavior specialist. I think many teachers are much too quick to try and get every kid doped up but in some cases the child will benefit but it has to be a correct diagnosis of the problem not a knee jerk action. I also think that many people don't want to know that their child may have a problem and try to brush it off when it only hurt the child and makes the parents upset. The bottom line I guess is if it's possible talk to your pediatrition and maybe have an accessment done, if it helps your child it will only make things better for EVERYONE.

 

[RIDING ROB]

Thanks again for your replys

As far as riding WITH my son. Right now I'm riding (when he is not in trouble) my 4-wheeler with him mostly. I'm hoping he will soon give me, on my CRF450, some compitition.

As far as his teacher recomending him being tested for ADD/ADHD. In her defense, she was not for it in the begining. My wife mentioned it at our first parent teachers conference this year, because it had been brought to our attention by a couple of our family and friends. Her response to ADD/ADHD was similar to ours. In our last conference she brought up the fact that we had mentioned it before, and that now this may be an opption we may want to consider.

Thanks again guys for letting me vent my frustrations. This is something I have a hard time accually discussing with people. I just can't help the fact that I feel guilty for something I may be doing wrong. We've been told that "we spoil him", "to hard on him", and "there is some kind of inner problem".

All I know is to stay FIRM and always let him know I LOVE him.

 

[whyzee]

Rob, it's good to hear that you are participating in the relationship with his education. I see kids that don't and won't ever see their education as anything more than something they HAVE to do. With both of my kids I have been very involved in their schools, have had on average 6 per year: teacher/parent, student/teacher/parent and at times had the principle as well as AG director in on conferences. All this not because my son was in trouble, but to insure that my son's brain was being stimulated and that he was not bored.
Teachers in standard public schools (primary and secondary) often have to teach to the entire class at the lowest student level in that class, in the county we are in the students are categorized 1 throurh 4 and the base curriculum is geared to move these Cat 1 kids to the next grade. Teachers are not allowed to teach any more but rather prepare the students for what's next. Who gets hurt? Every Cat 3 & 4 child who has the ability and the desire to learn.
Ok, I'm getting off topic but this is why I'm at my children's school, my son has a 3.9 and this is because, since he was in 2nd grade, he has been doing grade up work. He was accepted into a GT magnet school for the 4th & 5th grades and will start at a GT magnet middle school in the fall with high school algebra, 8th grade English, first year Japanese, and the ability to take three electives. Understand that this is his doing, we were at the schools making sure the doors were opened to him and that the staff did NOT teach DOWN to our son. I'm proud of my kids, I know I'm referring to my boy here, my daughter just graduated from a magnet HS with a 3.4gpa, we worked our butts off for her education as well.
Be there at the school during the times your kids are not in trouble, let them know that you are interested in their education more than fixing a lunch in the morning and signing a report card every few months. Insure that your kids are challenged in their schoolwork.
When they go out to race on their bikes .... they race to win, there is no difference with school in my opinion, help them win.

BTW:
James980, if you think teachers make 60K and have it so easy, then you really don't have a clue. Why anyone would want to go into this profession is beyond me. I have as much respect for good educators as I do for our military, police, and anyone in rescue. They are there to make a difference, by their own choice.

Good luck Rob :thumb:

 

[James980]

Suburban Chicagoland. Check the numbers. Get educated. Get a clue.

These average salary data are from the Illinois State Board of Education:

1 TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 211 $87,677
2 NORTHFIELD TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 225 $77,662
3 NEW TRIER TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 203 $75,480
4 TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 214 $75,440
5 HINSDALE TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 86 $75,172
6 COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 218 $74,141
7 LYONS TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 204 $74,138
8 THORNTON TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 205 $73,107
9 GLENBARD TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 87 $73,010
10 RICH TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 227 $72,230
11 LAKE PARK COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 108 $72,080
12 CONSOLIDATED HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 230 $72,070
13 ARGO COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 217 $71,650
14 COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 99 $71,229
15 LEYDEN COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 212 $71,097
16 OAK PARK & RIVER FOREST DISTRICT 200 $70,848
17 NILES TOWNSHIP COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 219 $70,404
18 REAVIS TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 220 $70,288
19 FENTON COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 100 $69,867
20 RIVERSIDE BROOKFIELD TOWNSHIP SCHOOL DISTRICT 208 $68,342
21 DU PAGE HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 88 $68,315
22 EVANSTON TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 202 $67,986
23 MAINE TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 207 $67,466
24 THORNTON FRACTIONAL TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 2 $67,024
25 BREMEN COMMUNITY HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 228 $66,374

The average for the Chicago Public School System is $54,766. That includes K-12.

And I didn't mean to condemn all teachers. There are some great ones out there. However, the ones who are two trigger happy with the ADD drugs are lazy and next to worthless -- but they sure don't complain when my property taxes keep going up, up, up!

Later,
James

Originally posted by Whyzee

James980, if you think teachers make 60K and have it so easy, then you really don't have a clue.

 

[whyzee]

-- it amazes me how $60k/year with three months off isn't enough for these suburban high school teachers -- then the whole ADD movement probably never would have gotten off the ground.

This is what my comment was based on.

Suburban Chicagoland. Check the numbers. Get educated. Get a clue
...
The average for the Chicago Public School System is $54,766. That includes K-12.

A little information (education) for yourself:
The national average is less than HALF the "Chicago Public School System". Even if it was equal to your area's salaries it would not be enough.

However, the ones who are two trigger happy with the ADD drugs are lazy and next to worthless -- but they sure don't complain when my property taxes keep going up, up, up!

Lazy? Worthless? When you fit their shoes, and see what they have to deal with, I'll lend an ear. I can tell by the tax statement you don't have kids. :| I'll stop now because this is not what the thread is about.

 

[James980]

The $54k figure was for Chicago (you know, the city) and included K-12 (you know, kindergarten through 12th grade, which is more than just high school). Why did you quote that and not the hard data that supported my point?

If you scroll back up a bit, you'll see the AVERAGE salaries for HIGH SCHOOL teachers in several PUBLIC school districts in the SUBURBS around Chicago -- my suburbs, not your suburbs, which is what I was referring to -- stretch well into $70k.

If you think that teachers are these little old spinsters making $15,000 a year and living in boarded-up row houses, then you are living in the 1940s, buddy!

I'm not going to say anything more about this on a dirt bike discussion board. If you want to further your education on this matter, I suggest you contact the ISBE or your equivalent state agency.

James

 

[James980]

Man, you make it tough here to stick to my promise. :)

Actually, it's because I have kids that I get kind of worked up about teachers who clock a whopping six or seven hour workday, get three months off a year, make more than $60k a year and still feel the need to go on strike about every three or four years because they don't think the $4,000+ in property taxes I pay (or that my laid-off neighbors pay) annually on a very modest four-bedroom house in an older neighborhood is enough to cover 5% annual pay increases for the duration of their next contract.

What? You're saying if someone has kids then this situation should be OK with them?

James

Originally posted by Whyzee
I can tell by the tax statement you don't have kids.

 

[gainsboro]

The threat of loosing the bike is fine......but a little short sighted.
"If you do well at school you get to ride this ", singles out motocross as a reason to try hard at school. Although we have used this, the bigger picture is more effective.
The last time we had problems with our son, i asked him which of the familys friends he would most like to be like when he is older. I told him he had made a good choice, but felt that he had no chance !
We then took him for a drive round the roughest housing estate we could find, pointed out the old cars in the street,and did mention the lack of motocross bikes etc ! The cold fact that he could end up on such an estate if he didn't make every effort at school had more effect than the thaught of losing his racebike, i can tell you !
Ask the kid if he hopes to buy his kids a mx bike one day, when he is older.
Explaining that you need a good job to do so often sinks in real quick.

 

[Pepperman]

I have to chime in on this subject.My oldest son was a bear in school.We fought every night with homework from 1st grade to 4th grade when we finally found out what the problem was.We knew he was behind in his reading but couldn't figure out why.All the teachers and counselors were praising the ADD thing and suggesting that he had it bad.He's the typical boy who has to be better than all his buddies at everything and hates to lose at anything,including an argument.He'd argure with a rock!Finally a wonderful special ed teacher came to town and and asked if he's ever been tested for dislexia.We had him tested and sure enough,he has it severely.He can read a book better upside down better than right side up.Once we found out the problem and learned how to deal with him,life has become sooooo much better.He is now going to the 6th grade and is reading on a 4th grade level.Beginning of last year he was on a 2nd grade level.I'm not saying that your son is dislexic,but something is going on in his mind.As far as the belt,I use mine.GOD Bless,Pepperman

 

[RIDING ROB]

Deslexec is not the problem, because he can read better than I can. Reading is the only thing he does excel in.

Thank you for your replies ounce again.

 

[dmcc]

Lot's of interest shown on this thread!!!

My $.02....... If riding is something you do together, don't take that away! Riding is something I do with my kids where nothing else matters. You just ride. Let it all hang out! Best place in the world to reinforce that you love 'em just the way they are, no matter what. My kids always have that time where they can, at least for a little while, forget about school, homework, chores,etc. and whatever they may have screwed up that week. Best of all, we're together, and have something we can really talk about and actually be on the same page.
Now I'm not saying don't punish him. But kids get stuck in a grade level pretty much just by their age, and even with good teachers, school these days is alot like an assembly line. Only problem is, your kid ain't a Ford! So it's up to you, at home, to treat him like an individual. So unfortunately, no matter what advice we give you (alot of which has been really good ideas), you still have to find out what is best for YOUR son, and what punishment and rewards are appropriate for him.
I know that nobody can be at the school every time their kid takes a test, but as for homework, there is no reason why we shouldn't already know exactly where our kids stand week to week.
Bottom line---your kid was not designed or built to go to school. Boy's nature is to explore, to run, race, yell, fight, build, etc. School is something that most boys have some trouble with, and with our help can usually learn at some point to make the best of it. Riding may be the one thing you both have a passion for. I wouldn't take that away UNLESS it was the cause of the problem. Find the cause, and treat that, whether it takes punishment, rewards, or even a bigger commitment of time on your part, but let the boy know that there is something good about him and there is something you agree on. God bless!

 

[fox13fx]

My parents did the same thing with me and I wasnt mad at them for it. It really will turn you around and Now I got a 3.5 gpa and my parents couldnt be happier to take me ( or my little brother who has a 3.625 gpa) rideing

 

[nephron]

dislexia

Deslexec

....How ironic. ;)

I wouldn't worry SO MUCH about gradeschool grades, or even a whole lot about the behavior issues (unless severe ) A lot of this stuff washes out toward the end of highschool, when these kids have to become socially 'successful' and are finally threatened with their impending discharge from the comfortably 'low-responsibility' environment and thrown into the real world.

I'm not saying 'ignore' it, but provide consistent, fair support and guidance. Just let them be friggin' kids, already. Average grades, eg in 7th grade math means you use a calculator when you grow up (who cares if you can add or subtract in your head--totally useless function), while your understanding of calculus (an entirely different brain function--abstract vs. math=language fxn...surprisingly) is very important, and will determine your understanding of very important future concepts.

If you'll allow me this example, I did very average gradeschool work (primarily because of my behavior--which was 'slated' as ADD...thank God I wasn't treated), while by the end of my senior year, I was excited about learning and social 'training' inevitable. Everything after that was 4.0, Med School included. Phi Beta Kappa,...the whole bit.

They want to put my son in a gifted program--I will not allow that.
The point? Hold off on the 'mini dad' approach to schooling. It'll just kill their desire to learn. Let them be kids...they're just great the way they are 99% of the time, with few real cases of ADD, as Patman pointed out.