Sunk and Hydro-lock

[sr5bidder]

well the trials tire (d803)was working great in every condition with good predictable traction.
I had gone down on a tree I did not see laying there and was tryingto make up time by riding faster, I came around a corner and did not pick the right line and ended up going into a puddle that was not really a puddle but 3ft of water ontop of 2ft of sinking thick mud.

so I spent about 30 minutes getting it out of there and another 2hrs pushinging it to the tralhead and waiting on a tow.
so the rest of the weekend I rode my back up xt350 and stewed about the engine on the kdx...last night after unpacking I pulled the tank and spark plug and filled the cylinder and crankcase with 2stoke oil.

I want to pull the head and cylinder so I can see the crank and go from there.

luckly I had stalled it out in the whole and did not suck water in under power but it got there while pulling and tugging and falling over on the way out.

 

[sr5bidder]

so let me know if this sounds right

drain trans
remove pipe
disassenbel kips shaft LH thread with support
remove inner and outer side cover

remove radiators, carb and reeds

remove cylinder w/ head attached
clean and inspect

I think I can get the cylinder off without removing the engine from the frame.
if I am forgeting something please let me know, I do have the fsm

I'm just milling it over in my head till I get off work

 

[_JOE_]

You'll need to turn the engine up side down to drain the crankcase. It's going to need a really good flush to try and get all the dirt out. The main concern would be the crank bearings. Everything else should be able to be cleaned out. Don't forget to grease the chassis too.

 

[sr5bidder]

I'm going to remove the flywheel and clutch before removing the engine.

then probably spray the frame,swing arm and fork lowers
and replace the bearings as I go

 

[sr5bidder]

anyone have an airbox lid?

I may want to look at putting one on.

 

[julien_d]

That sucks man. I've sunk mine a few times, no damage yet. Never locked it up. Just pumped the kickstarter by hand a few times, fired it up, and off I went. If your filter's in good shape and was oiled well I'd say you'll find minimal damage, if any.

 

[sr5bidder]

Not so JD, I mean SUnK.... (under all the way)
from what I found I think the muddy water came down the exhuast, I dumped about a gallon out of the pipe last night, another 6-7oz came out when loosening the cyl. base bolts and about 10oz from the case when I fliped the bike over... all of this contained a large amount of solids.

I got the engine tore down to just the crank in the right case all the bearings where muddy the bottom end appears to be new so I hope there is a way to clean it out and just put new seals in....I'm thinking a 5 gallon bucket with kerosene and a rope to suspend the crank and a palm sander straped to the bucket (home made ultrasonic)

I did find that the cylinder had been sleeved and the piston looks decent so I'll put them in the back of the truck and call my machinist to pick them up if they measure out good then I can just ring it if not no big deal as I can bore it out for $35

JD do you think its posible to press a crank apart and clean it and the bearings and press the same pieces back together

well I'm heading off to find the shift drum polishing thread...

 

[julien_d]

Probably what's going to happen if you press the crank out is the bearings will come with it. That should be fine, as you will have access to clean them out really well without removing them from the crank itself. To help this happen, heat the cases around the area where the main bearings seat, and press the crank out of the cases slowly. If the bearings look new and you can get them really clean, I wouldn't feel bad about pressing it back into the cases with the same bearings and new seals. Sounds like you've already gotten halfway here though....

If you're meaning to press apart the crank shaft in order to get to / clean the big end bearing, I'm going to guess no. It's very difficult to press a crank back together and get it lined up within spec. You'd probably need to send it off and have it rebuilt with a new rod kit. I like your home made ultrasonic idea, that might work.

 

[sr5bidder]

yeah I want to try to hang the crank from the area the seals are and not from the rod cause any dirt in the rod would scratch the bearing surfaces... I can rotate the crank often to relieve a new area of the big end..

I wasn't going to try to press the crank myself..hell I had a hard enough time making a case spliter out of some elevator parts I had saved...still thinking of how to make a press for the other half, I dont have a welder.

BTW the trans and gears looked great..been running type F for many many hours.

 

[reepicheep]

For cleaning, I think some cans of engine degreaser (preferably the stuff that foams when it hits) and brake parts cleaner would do a great job of getting that stuff out, maybe even without splitting the cases. There is good degreaser (that foams) and bad degreaser (orange cap or something, smells like it's just diesel), unfortunately I can't remember if the walmart stuff was the good stuff or bad stuff. Do that, get it as clean as you can, then run ATF type F and change after every ride for two or three rides.

The crank can be pressed apart and pressed back together, but if you are doing that, you definitely want to do it with a new big end rod bearing...

 

[sr5bidder]

reep case already split I will try to post some pics but there is no way I'd try to run it without splitting and cleaning and spinning each bearing by hand ...good Idea about the foaming stuff that may push the dirt out and carry it away.

BTW if you read the whole post ..the trans is perfect no mud

 

[Joburble]

Way to go sr5bidder. IMO splitting the case and cleaning it is the way to go, all it should cost you is gaskets and a bit of time. Unless you feel it was damaged by grit in the muddy water you shouldn't have to split the crank really, just give it a good wash/flush in a kerosine bath or petrol bath until you feel it is perfectly clean. That is provided you haven't run it after the muddy water submersion. Next time get your mates to ride throught the puddles first ;)

 

[_JOE_]

Next time get your mates to ride throught the puddles first ;)

That's what I do! :cool: Just sucks when it's not that deep and you get roosted with muck.

I hate being knee deep in mud, add a couple feet of nasty water on top of that and you get a bit paniky (and really syinky), lol. Welcome to Pennsylvania in April.

 

[sr5bidder]

nope its the full rebuild I'm afraid left side main was ok the right had 1 more day to marinate in the muck and its pretty locked up ..last night I could not get the crank out of the right case. as most of you know the high carbon steel takes to rusting very fast so $55 for the mains/seals big end rod may be ok and an oversized piston and might sneak the head off to RB....we'll see






remember to read the postings and you'll see I found a sleeve in there!!



anyone know what kaw uses between the crankcase halves?? looked like a clear sealer

 

[julien_d]

If there was something between the case halves, then it's been split before. From the factory it's just machined that tight, no gasket or sealer. Use yamabond or hondabond when you stitch it back up though.

 

[sr5bidder]

JD
yep it had been split before and a new crank kit installed P.O said it was a 220 after I bought it I looked and the cylinder said 198 .... so my guess is the 220 had the "piston problem" and they went back with a sleeved 200 and wiesco piston and rod. .. whatever was between the cases there was very little of it.

 

[reepicheep]

I posted a thread a while back with the sealers that are recommended... The one that was easy for me to find was Permetex ultra grey. You want a semi-hardening gasket material. Worked great so far.

I was riding the KLR-250 on some Ohio trails, and it messed with your head. Over every rise there was a big puddle on the other side, with a thin layer of ice over it (it was Nov). Was it a 4" puddle? Or a 4' puddle? Who knows. So you aimed for the corners of it and hoped for the best, but you were always wondering if the next puddle is going to be the 4' deep one. :0

So, if you will allow me a minor tangent, what is the "right thing to do" if you do think you sunk a two stroke and it swallowed some muddy water? Pop off the clutch cover, get two guys to rotate the bike 360 degrees a few times, and drain everything out, then maybe bolt it back up and run a line from the fuel tank to the transmission, and fill it to the brim from your gas tank, then get it home and split the cases and clean it out? Just curious...

 

[sr5bidder]

reep

Don't really know how to put this but here it goes the transmission is fine and more than likely water/mud would not get into anyone elses transmission either ,the vent for the gear case is incerted in the top of the air box plus the trans is full of fluid....

the crankcase is seperate from the gears water/mud will find its way in thru the intake side (filter) and in my case the exhuast

unless I dumped my bike in a clean trout stream there is no way after what i've seen the engine would last more than a few minutes if not seconds

so I would recomend not running or even trying to run an engine full of dirty water after draining because the water comes out and the dirt does not

 

[reepicheep]

Makes perfect sense. It would be hard to force water in the tranny.

Still thinking along my previous lines, I wonder if you could have gotten as much mud/water out as possible, popped out the spark plug, rotated the motor with the kick starter until the piston was low in the cylinder, then drained the tank into the spark plug hole until it was "topped off", then put it back on the truck that way... I wonder if that would have resisted some rust until you could get it home and split the cases.

Just speculating... I've not drowned one yet, so I have no idea what it really involves.

 

[sr5bidder]

yes that would have been better than water and mud settling in

the case halves dried up

 

[sr5bidder]

he mud in the reeds

 

[sr5bidder]

the main bearing that was on one more day than the ok one

 

[sr5bidder]

 

[sr5bidder]

woops going out to do some cleaning now that y'all got some carnage shots to think about if you ever want to start it up after a dirty swim for 30 seconds of glory!!!

 

[glad2ride]

WOW! Sorry to see it sunk! Good job on the tear down and inspection so far.

The correct sealant is Kawasaki Liquid Gasket Kawabond 5:

http://www.kawasaki.com/KawasakiNew...atalogType=23&ProductTypeID=150&CategoryId=49