Transmission Oil

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#1
I know the manual recommends using 10W30 or 10W40, but I was wondering what brand of oils most of you use and what grade you would suggest for a harescramble racer.

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BloodEclipse
00' KDX220 Mine
00' TT-R125L Son
94 XR200 Wife
 
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#2
I would reccomend castrol gtx 10w-30 or 10w-40. When I first bought my 00 KDX 220 the dealer gave me some bel-ray 85w oil. At first there was no problem but then later on when i would drive my bike hard it would make this funny humming sound from the tranny. So I decided to follow the owners manual and use castol 10w-40 next I got some recomendations here to run it a little high in the window, So far I've had no problems and i like doing it this way, just add about a quart and go! Just remember to change the oil a little more often since it's just motor oil.
Mike
 

Mikeb

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#3
I have had good luck ruinning TYPE F (not Dextron) automatic transmission fluid as have many others here. I know of people running ATF in winter and 10w-30 motor oil in the summer with good luck.Like Mike said make sure whatever you uise to change it OFTEN and go ahead and use the full quart.

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Mikeb
1998 KDX200  
http://www.justkdx.dirtrider.net
 
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#4
Mike, are you saying that it's ok to go past the fill mark and to just go ahead a dump the whole quart in? I know that when I changed the oil with the amount the manual said it appeared to be a little low.

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'00 KDX 220
'99 VFR 800
'00 XR 70 - Jr's
 
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#5
I also went through the same little thing you are, when i would poor in the exact amount the manual said it was a little low. Most people just dump a full quart in. I however just dump a quart and watch the window. If you leave about an inch left in the bottle it should be a little above mid level which is where i like it. So just watch the window, otherwise a quart is good, and it seems to get rid of some of the noise from the tranny.
Mike
 
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#6
The extra oil give the clutch bits that much more oil to suspend in, and since the tranny isn't under pressure, the extra oil isn't doing any harm.

Also, with the extra oil, it gives extra cooling surface to the cases also. Not a problem now, but 3 months from now, that will (hopefully) be a different story.
 

Sage

dirtbike riding roadracer
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#7
Redline light weight gear oil works great, Blue not Yellow, and under normal riding conditions a once a season change will be fine. If your looking for max power, don't over fill the oil, the clutch will drag in the oil and soak up the ponies.

PS. 12 gears spinning in oil will generate some pressure and push oil out of the overflow tube. :rolleyes:

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Sage Wilkinson, KDX Link 1
 

bud

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#8
Originally posted by Sage:
under normal riding conditions a once a season change will be fine.
Changing oil once a season? Am I misunderstanding you here? I've tried many different oils from expensive gear oils to bargain basement motor oil, and the one thing they have in common is after 4-8 hours of hard riding, shifting and sometimes clutching suffers. Changing the oil every 2nd or 3rd ride - the point when the oil usually starts misbehaving is the only way to go for me.
 

Sage

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#9
Try the Redline Light Weight Gear Oil, Blue. You will be impressed, I was and I dont't usually go for stuff like that, Once a Season under "normal" conditions, most of my customers only ride @ 60mi per month which is 720mi per season, I ride @ 200-250 per month and change it about every six months.

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Sage Wilkinson, KDX Link 1
 
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#10
Regardless of how great Reline oil is I would think you would still want to change it more often to remove particles from the clutch discs and basket.
 
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#11
I'd recommend once a season if I owned a service department.

I change the same as Bud, every 2-3 rides, depending on length and conditions (how hard I am on the clutch).

When I change oil, it's dirty. I'm not doing it for my health or because I like it..
 

Sage

dirtbike riding roadracer
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#12
Ask someone else that has tried it.

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Sage Wilkinson, KDX Link 1
 

dhoward

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#13
Originally posted by Sage:
Redline light weight gear oil works great, Blue not Yellow, and under normal riding conditions a once a season change will be fine. If your looking for max power, don't over fill the oil, the clutch will drag in the oil and soak up the ponies.

PS. 12 gears spinning in oil will generate some pressure and push oil out of the overflow tube. :rolleyes:

BZZZZZZZ!
Thanks for playing.

For heaven's sake, DON'T change your oil only once a season.
DO use a full quart in a KDX tranny.
Don't worry about the oil "soaking up ponies..." it ain't happenin'.
Oh, and the "pressure" from the gears spinning(?) WILL NOT push oil out of the overflow tube.

Sage, like the spice, not advice, right?

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Dan
'98 KDX 200
St. Louis, MO
 
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#14
Sage,
Does this Redline oil come with it's own internal filter, or are we just supposed to leave the abrasive particles floating around in there, all year long???

It might be the best oil on the face of the earth, but I don't remember seeing a filter in my KDX gearbox... The only way to get the bits out is with the oil.

I don't want them in my gearbox. Plain and simple. That's why I change the oil...

This isn't meant as a rip on you, or any other shop owner, but part of the posting here on DRN is info to avoid having to visit the dealer and make large donations.

We would much rather visit more often, with a good attitude, say hello, and make small donations.

It is a pay you a little now or pay you a lot later situation. I like it much better a little at a time. Free coffee helps too... :D
You would be amazed at what I didn't know what neat gadget I needed when I stop in for a little BS and coffee.
 

Sage

dirtbike riding roadracer
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#15
Originally posted by Sage:
Once a Season under "normal" conditions, most of my customers only ride @ 60mi per month which is 720mi per season, I ride @ 200-250 per month and change it about every six months.

If you're going to pull quotes from above at least pull the right ones! I'll make this real simple, for the simple minded, try to follow along:
better lubrication = less wear,
less wear = less particles in oil,
less particles in the oil = less frequent oil changes......

its not a four stroke, there no carbon deposits in the oil so it lasts longer.

As for the over-filling of oil not effecting engine drag, it will.

Case & Point: Some kart guy's run ATF in their gear boxes(CR125 & YZ125 mostly), they change it every race, they also go through 1,2 & sometimes 3 trannys per season. Other people that I know are using Redline Gear Oil and change their oil twice per season, they start and finish the season on the same tranny! A kart friend of mine turned me on to this oil and its good stuff, if you think your harder on a tranny than a pro 125 shifter kart, think again! I'm not trying to sell you a quart of oil I'm trying to save you a tranny! Do what you want, my bike has the stock tranny & clutch from 10-99 when I bought it new, it's far from stock as far as the engine goes and to boot I'm a AA rider, 6'1" 230 pounds & very abusive to the bike.

Case & Point 2: As Doug Chandler & Aaron Yates's superbike mechanic in 98-99, I have personally experienced a 3hp gain in oil level, 3qts vs. 3.6qts of oil. I know a KDX is not a superbike but physics are physics an drag is drag.

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Sage Wilkinson, KDX Link 1

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 03-28-2001).]
 
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#16
Apparently the concept of oil based CRANKSHAFT windage (which doesn't exist in the KDX) slipped past you while you were busy impressing Doug with your incredible grasp of the physics of fluid flow.
 
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#17
Geez is everyone out to get sage or what. I think this site is great and i learn more from the people here than any bike shop. Sage gave his opinion on a product and he doesn't need to be insulted it's his opinion and if you don't like it keep it to yourself. It amazes me how grown men and women will bicker like 2 year olds. Everyone has different experiences with products and i don't think he has a gun to anyone's head making them do things his way.
 

BRush

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#18
If we descend into hyper technicalities, then yes, a clutch that's immersed in a full quart of oil instead of the recommended 750cc's will "soak up more ponies" - as will running an O-Ring chain, or wearing all that heavy gear instead of going riding in a T-shirt and flip-flops. :cool:

The real question is: will running the extra 196cc's of oil make any practical difference (power-wise)? The answer, as shown by overwhelming experience, should be obvious. Shifter Kart racing and Super Bikes are so far removed from what we do with a woods bike that they might as well be on another planet.

When I run a full quart of oil, what do I get for my lost 0.074 ponies? It quiets down the gear noise, which I like. I have a little extra cooling medium to wick heat away from the clutch when I'm unmercifully abusing it to get restarted on that dang hill I always seem to bite it on. Changing oil every couple of rides lets me get rid of any clutch plate particles (see above) and any other dirt or water that happened to find its way in. Also it gives me an early warning system to any serious problems (was that a lump of metal in there? :eek: )

Which is why, when asked, I recommend running a full quart and changing often.

[This message has been edited by BRush (edited 03-28-2001).]
 
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#19
I'VE BEEN USING REDLINE BLUE GEAR LUBE FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS NOW AND YES I CHANGE MY OIL ABOUT EVERY 6 MO.I ALSO HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE KTM 200 EXC ONE HAS A 300 MXC WHO ALSO ONLY CHANGE THEIR OIL EVREY 6 MO.AND WE DO RIDE A LOT OF MILES.IT SEEMS TO ME IF I WERE A SHOP I WOULD TRY TO SELL YOU THE OTHER STUFF(10/30 OR ATF) AT ABOUT $2.00 A QT THATS ABOUT $24.00 PER YEAR PLUS WHAT EVER WEARS OUT LIKE CLUCTH OR GEAR BEARINGS. I'VE NEVER HAD TO REPLACE THAT STUFF DO TO WEAR (REDLINE IS $7.50) AND IF YOU NEVER TRIED SOMETHING DONT KNOCK IT!
 

BRush

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#20
Redline,

I don't see anyone knocking Redline Gear Lube. I use Redline Water Wetter and it is a fine product. If it was not so pricey, I might give the oil a try, but I have a system that works well for me (cheaper oil and change often). Most of the debate centers around the how-often-should-you-change it thing that we seem to get into from time to time. As to "trying it", when I was a poor teenager there were plenty of times I didn't change my oil for long, long (long!) periods :).

ps. In case no one has mentioned it before, TYPING A MESSAGE IN ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING.

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96 KDX 200

[This message has been edited by BRush (edited 03-28-2001).]
 
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#21
There was a comparison of superbike/Kart racing to dirt bikes. Am I harder on the transmission than those guys? Well, no, but the key thing here is the clutch. I'm much harder on the clutch. That's where all those particles come from no matter how good your oil is. I have a 2 stroke street bike and once a year is adequate for the tranny, but the clutch abuse on my dirtbike requires more frequency. Buy whatever works for you, but change it often.
 

dhoward

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#23
I think you're missing the point here, sage.
My guess is, bikes are harder on clutches than karts. Kart racers aren't slipping and fanning a clutch like dirt riders.
There's a whole bunch of more than anecdotal information on this board.
NO bodys' out to GET you.

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Dan
'98 KDX 200
St. Louis, MO
 
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#24
Ok well it seems this is a topic in which everyone has their own ideas on what is best. I think I'll stick to my schedule of changing my Castrol 10w30(Winter) 10w40(summer) after every 2 or 3 rides. It would be my guess that no oil would break down and lose protection in 2 or 3 rides. Oh I also change it before and after each race. I think I'm safe. I will start adding a bit more to help quiet my clutch. Thanks for all your comments.

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BloodEclipse
00' KDX220 Mine
00' TT-R125L Son
94 XR200 Wife