WR250F, No smile for me.

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#1
I have just switched from a '97 KDX200 to a WR250F. As this particular instant I am not happy about the change. I was quite a bit faster on the KDX. I don't think the problem is power, but more of a handling issue. I can't seem to flick teh WR at all. On the KDX I always was much faster than my normal riding buddy, but now it is a struggle to even keep up with him.

I will say that I only have a couple of short rides on it, but it does not seem to be getting any better. I have lower the fron fork about 5mm, opened the air passages and removed the throttle stop. Has anyone else found the same thing? How long did it take for you to get used to the thumper? There is a HS next weekend I was planning to run, but now I am thinking I should preserve the bike so it sells quicker! Let me know your thoughts.
 
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#2
You can't lug it around like the KDX. The YZF/WR has to have it's guts revved out to make power, just like a 125 two-stroke. It does make better torque than the 125's, but it is still a revver.

You are probably also having the usual two-stroke-to-fourstroke crossover dificulties, You have to ride a four-banger with a totaly different style than a two-stroke. The WR 250f can easily keep up with a KDX when ridden well.
 
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#3
I used to run tt's on a two stroke in one class, and a four stroke in another. It was a totally different mindset for each bike, even though I was used to it.

My first lap on the four stroke after racing the two stroke I looked like a complete spode every time!

It really takes a different riding style.

Some people can make the switch, others can't. Then again, some riders are faster on four strokes once they get the hang of it than they ever were on two strokes.

Really smooth riders seem to do better on thumpers. Guys who are on the throttle hard, and on the brakes just as hard may not convert very well to a thumper. It just depends.

PJ
 
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#4
Get some serious seat time on it before you make any decisions. The previous posts are right on the money, it's a real transition in riding techniques between 2 and 4 strokes. Three years ago, I switched from a YZ250 to a WR400. Thought I'd really screwed up. After awhile, though, I became much faster on the thumper, and last year won the 4 stroke A class in the Texas enduro circuit. Picked up a WR250F last week, just rode it today at an enduro. The transition was MUCH easier, although I can see I will have to adjust my riding style again to compensate for the difference in bikes. One thing I noticed, the stock tire is not very confidence inspiring. If handling is the issue, try a different tire. You might be surprised. Otherwise, the bike was very cool - unfortunately, I rode like a spode and made it look bad. Again, seat time...
Good luck.
 
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#5
The WR needs to be revved a bit more then the YZF. I rode my YZF today and did some play riding on a buddies WR.

The WR was really easy to ride. The power was easy to control but it wanted to go fast.

I went faster on my bike but I think I could be just as fast on the WR with a little seat time.

The handling is different from a 2-stroke so give it some time.

The first day I rode the YZF I hated it but I quickly fell in love.
 

TexKDX

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#6
I've owned the WR400 for over a year now. It is my backup/Dual sport bike. It still takes me 45 minutes to an hour to get used to riding it from my KTM300. Once you get used to it and how it works you can figure out how to go faster.
 
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#7
Originally posted by Ivan Liechty:
The WR needs to be revved a bit more then the YZF. I rode my YZF today and did some play riding on a buddies WR.

The WR was really easy to ride. The power was easy to control but it wanted to go fast.

Ivan, pls explain. Do U mean it needs 2 be revved more to make the same HP as the YZF?

Seems 2 me in an enduro needing to rev higher than one would on an MX track means wet shorts...
 
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#8
I talked to a guy this weekend that rode the 24 dirtrider test last week he is an a rider who races a kx 500 his favorite bike in the test was the wr 250.I have friends that have switched to the 426 they all seemed slower at first but after a few rides they are faster on the thumper. brett
 
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#9
Basically, IMO and this is not an expert opinion mind you, the WR as a result of the extra flywheel weight and extra lbs needs to be revved in the upper RPM's to go fast.

However, down low it is really easy to control but you can't just open the throttle and transport yourself to speed like you can with the YZF.

There is a minimal difference between the two but on the YZF, being used to it, I can go a lot faster. However, after about 10 minutes on the WR I worked out most of the quirks and was going fairly fast too.

I also went up 2 teeth on the rear with my YZF and that really helps the low end punch when you are on the trail and you need to get across logs or through a sand whoop section. The YZF definately suits and aggressive rider more and the WR does't make a non-aggressive rider pay for poor decisions yet allows and aggressive rider the opportunity to go fast.
 
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#10
Revved to go fast? In the open stuff, yes. In the tight, this baby will haul without ever getting to half throttle. I just had my first ride on my new bike this weekend in the Ozark mountains. It's performance far exceeded my expectations. Now keep in mind that I am coming off a yz & a CR125 two-smoke, so the thumping is totally new to me. My first impression was Damn this thing is easy to ride. It has all the bottom-end that I could ever want. It is very forgiving and tracks true. One can very easily steer with the throttle and a little body english. The gearing is spot on. 1st is perfect for the tree knocking trial riding tight stuff, and the rock climbs. For regular single-track or single-rut, 2nd is the hot ticket. Once it opens up, let her rev.. and rev it will. The lugging ability on this bike is unbelievable. I was experimenting with it climbing the mountain and on sharp 90 to 120 turns up the mountain it would change to a much lower tone and then wap, wap, wap, wap,wapwapwap......It would hookup and accelerate. I also found that if I lugged a taller gear I could use a wider portion of the power band and could fly while I thought I was only strolling along. The guys behind me(B riders) were telling me that they were having trouble keeping me in sight and yet I thought I was just cruising along. I'm still in shock with this sweet thang. Ask me about my starting experiences with it on the first day and you will hear a little different story though.
Thankfully, I got it all figured out by day two!
Coop
 

TexKDX

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#12
Originally posted by BigBore:
I read that, then thought.....wait, this IS a 250cc four stroke we're talking about, right? Then I burst into uncontrollable laughter.

Yes, it is a 250, and it makes about 2 horses shy of what an uncorked XR600 makes while carrying 50 pounds less weight. You must have it confused with the RED 250 4 stroke.
 
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#13
bentbars,

It probably is a handling issue. I sat on one of the YZ250F's and it seemed alot bigger than a KDX. You are used to riding a bike that will turn better than just about anything. Even Chris Smith couldn't make a CR250 turn in the woods like the XR250. Put the KDX away for a while and learn just that bike.

------------------
mgorman,
Thumping since 1980
"If the competition is not wasted, the day is"
 

Strick

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#14
I have not ridden the WR, but I did ride little thumper's YZ250F this weekend. Once he got me off of it, my comment was: I would buy one of these on Tuesday, if my wife would let me have two bikes.

I love that bike.

I have yet to ride a KDX. Going from my KTM to that YZF was completely natural. No 4strokes blues to contend with at all. For those of you who own this bike --Great Choice!

------------------
Strick '99 KTM 300mxc, AMA & BRC member
 
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#15
Thanks for all the input. I will definately commit to more seat time, not a problem. Don't get me wrong for a second I do like to ride the bike; I just want to ride it faster. I will be running a HS this weekend, so that should give me a chance to spend some quality time with her.

Any tips on the dead engine start? I have been having pretty good success starting in general, but usually need to use the hot start. I am going to play with richening the fuel screw to see if that helps at all. I don't see a good start in my future if I have to reach down and close the hot start before pulling away. I plan to do some practicing Sat., but would appreciate a push in the right direction.

Thanks,
Travis
 

weimedog

Damn Yankees
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#16
Looks like you got caught with a bike for a different application. The Yamaha was really meant to compete with the 125 two strokes. With a much wider powerband, the yamaha feels like a much more forgiving 125. But its power is still way up in the RPM's, just the way those 125 guys are used to it, So if you come from a 125 world...its awsome.

Those KDX kawasaki's Have there power lower in the RPM range. Its a very refined motorcycle with seveal generations of development. If you really want to go four stroke, you really need something in the 400 range to make you happy. Maybe that 300 Kawi might, but I think something along the lines of a KTM400 E/XC would be an improvement in your mind over the KDX.

I sold a husqvarna WR360 and bought a VOR503. Believe it or not, my husky was very abrupt off the bottom realtive to the VOR. The VOR is mellow off idle and just makes more power as the RPM's climb until upper midrange it starts really hauling. It make more power overall than my old two stroke, but the power is MUCH easier to use. I think you would find that to be the case with a KDX to 400cc class fourstroke.

With the demand so high for your Yamaha, I bet you could sell it or trade it and find a bike more suited.



------------------
2001 VOR503 V-Cross
1982 husqvarna XC430
1974 Bultaco Frontera 360
6 Kids, Four Ride, 3 race. (cr125, yz80, 2 KX125's)
Case 780, INT 1066, Ford LTL9000...and a Percheron
 
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#17
Sorry, Weimedog, but I've got to disagree with your comment that "if you really want to go 4 stoke, you really need something in the 400 range to make you happy." After riding a WR400 for three years, I think the WR250F may be the ultimate woods bike. The 400 had more power than I could ever use in most enduros, except in the wide-open stuff. Handling through the tight trees always wore me out. The 250F has PLENTY of low end to satisfy most riders, and is a hoot when you get more up in the RPMs. This is on a bone stock bike, too, which is probably how mine will stay, with the exception of a pipe. Handling compared to the 400 is not even a comparison. Not to take anything away from the big bores, I still love the power of my 400, but the WR250 seems to have all the useable power a mere mortal needs in the woods.
 
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#18
I let a guy who rides a KX250 in HS ride my bike, he has also tested a WRF.

I also let a guy who races an XR400 ride my YZF and he rode a WRF the same day.

I also let a guy on a KDX200 ride my bike and he rode the WRF the same day.

The guy from the KX didn't like the WR but loved the YZF.

The guy on the XR400 loved both bikes but prefered the YZF.

The guy on the KDX200 loved both bikes.

I also let a guy who races 125MX and HS. He much preferred the WR for woods and the YZF for MX. He said they both had more lowend then he expected.

The guy on the XR400 was the only one who wanted more lowend but he also had an HRC kit on the XR400.

You have to ride one yourself and make up your mind. Your love or hate for the bike is going to be directly influenced by what you rode before.

I like that it has less power then my 250 2-smoke. I feel the YZF has more power then I can use but it will be easier to grow into.
 

weimedog

Damn Yankees
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#19
...thats why there are so many bike on the market. Different strokes for different strokes.

Ride it, if you like it, BUY it. If not, there are more choices now on the marketplace than ever before. I learned years ago that just because there is a fad out there, doesn't mean I'm going to like it. I'll take the input from the magazines and blend it with experience and riding then choose. Sometimes I agree, sometimes not.

This fellow may learn to like his new Yamaha, but it won't be because of peer pressure. He may also decide its time to do something else. None of us here can make him like what ever he chooses through postings about what everyone else likes. My measage is simply its ok to dissagree with the mainstream sometimes. And what you like and dislike in a motorcycle is unique to the individual.

My other message is simply since there are so many who agree with the mainstream right now, if he is going to change, now is the time to do it. While these new Yamaha's are a fad and dealers are pulling $6000 to $6500 out of those with less patience. Maybe someone here can help take it off his hands if he chooses not to like it. Use these postings as a reference sell.

------------------
2001 VOR503 V-Cross
1982 husqvarna XC430
1974 Bultaco Frontera 360
6 Kids, Four Ride, 3 race. (cr125, yz80, 2 KX125's)
Case 780, INT 1066, Ford LTL9000...and a Percheron

[This message has been edited by weimedog (edited 02-20-2001).]
 
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#20
Bentbarz, Try some basic things and forget about the different sound, wieght and power delivery. Make sure your bike is taotaly set up for you and your ability. All controls, bars, suspension, tires, gearing, ect. Tell your friend to stay home and go ride by your self. Make your self a track with variety of all of your racing encounters. Start out slow and forget you have a rear brake. Use your motor compresion to scrub off speed when needed and concentrate on maintaning smooth continuos momentum(leave your clutch and rear brake alone!!) as you become comfortable and establish rythym you will find your smile. You will gradualy feel faster. To master momentum is to master the four stroke. Then start pushing your self to stay on the gas longer and back in it
sooner. You wont be as tired at then end of a HS with this type of riding style.You must be awful pumped trying to ride it like your KDX. If your still chasing your buddy your still riding like a 2 smoker. After you master momentum and the advantage of a high compresion motor Invite your buddy for another ride,and take him to school. Even if hes ahead of you for a while whipping his kdx around he will eventualy fade. You should be able to maitain a high speed momentum much longer. Clutching, Braking, Sliding, all take alot of energy and are all momentum killers. Try it!! you'll be smiling soon!!


[This message has been edited by DADCRASHED (edited 02-20-2001).]
 

Wolf

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#21
That is some great advice from dadcrashed. I went through the same thing when I switched from a cr250 to my XR. I now love it, but I went through some humiliating rides with my friends.
 

Rodzilla

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#23
Tex KDX you sure about your HP figures on the XR600? Last I saw the YZ250f was around 30 HP give or take.

My buddies XR400 is around 30 HP at 5,280 ft in altitude. (Performance Cycle dyno)

What does an uncorked XR600 pump out?

Can't believe even with Ti valves etc... your going to make up for 350cc displacement.

If I'm off base or just plain wrong I'm sorry.



------------------
I'll ride until I can't kickstart my bike, then I'll buy a bike with the happy button!

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#24
Here it is Rodzilla,

I have an old Honda service manual for an XR600 that I used to own.

Page 1-3 under Engine Specification:
Maximum horsepower - 45BHP/6,500rpm
Maximum torque - 5.3kg-m, (39.8 ft-lb)/5,500rpm

I read in the new Dirtbike magazine a max figure of 31.4HP for the YZ250F. I don't know what kind of torque the new 250cc yamaha 4-strokes put out,, that would be interesting.. I would have to imagine it would be considerably less than the legendary "super torque machine" XR600 though.

Bob
1999 YZ400F
 
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#25
I don't know the numbers, but my little Bro's YZ250F smokes my Dad's XR600 in a drag race. Dead stop or roll on...no contest.
Also, the little YZF hangs remarkably close to my other Brother's 99' YZF420. There is however about a 60lb. difference in rider weight favoring the 250.

Thump on!