YZs Hitting Neutral

[problmpc]

Just switched from HONDA to YZ. And so far so good, all except when im on the gas hard and im shifting from 1st to second i always manage to hit neutral, ive heard of others having the same problem with thier YZs ( Mine is a 02 125 ) Heard someone say to run HONDA oil, Im running Bel Ray 80w right now, and wether its a fresh oil change or not is still hits neutral. Any ideas on lessening my chances of hitting N ?

FRO

 

[MXP1MP]

Well my first advice is to be more assertive with the shift lever stop being so lazy. The bike shifts fine it isn't that hard to shift it, I do notice that compared to my '01 CR it isn't as smooth but isn't that far off. The YZ's gear box is spaced sorta wide now cause its a 5 speeder , the gear ratios seem taller than my '01 CR's. The only way to make the bike shift smoother would require that you pull apart the transmission and polish the shift forks and even then that won't make much of a difference. Belray is a great oil, switching to the honda oil won't do jack in terms of the way it shifts.

Joe
'02 YZ125
'01 CR125

 

[smarttoys]

I've noticed that Yamahas tend to have a fairly long throw between gears compared to Honda for example. Where I gave my CR a very small half shift to get it into neutral, it feels like I am making almost a full shift on the YZ to get it into neutral.
When I am shifting from 1st to 2nd I have to concentrate and make a complete shift and not just stab at the shifter, otherwise I find myself in neutral fairly often. I think it just takes some getting used to.

 

[KC_BigDog_51]

Maybe I have been riding a Yamaha too long because I have never noticed a problem with the shifters feel. Sometimes when my legs are getting tired I don't make the shift from 3rd to 4th very easily on long straightaways. But like MXPIMP said you just can't be lazy when shifting.

 

[coperam]

problmpc,

I've recently gone from an '84 cr250 to an '01 cr250 and I ran into the same problem. I never missed shifts with the '84 but missed quite a few shifts from 1st to 2nd with the '01. Anyway, I lowered the position of the shift lever and that seemed to help me, maybe you could give that a try?

coperam

 

[gibbs_6]

I have never noticed the problem with my yz either.Acts just like every other bike I rode.:think

 

[problmpc]

Well Ill just have to "conciously" think about it when shifting from 1st to 2nd. Instead of just letting MAM doing it...

Thanks,.

 

[smarttoys]

I have never noticed the problem with my yz either.Acts just like every other bike I rode

I've always been very sensitive to small differences between brands (like shifting for example) and that can be a bad thing sometimes. It just takes me a couple rides to get used to it.

 

[YoTRacer158]

the only time i hit the false neutral between 1st and 2md is when im just cruising around...when i'm trying to shift fast i always make clean shifts. besides...how often are you in 1st gear?? the only time i'm ever in 1st is riding trails, and i dont use the clutch riding trails. anywhere else 2nd is more than low enough

 

[Nevada Sixx]

i have an older yz, and I started using regular 10w40 car oil, now it dont miss shifts as much. Also, make sure your shifter is on tight, I tighten up my shift level to where it didnt have any play, and that helped also....

 

[Troy_776]

hitting nuetral

hey I hit nuetral sometimes too but its not too bad but i asked some guys at my local yamaha dealership and he said that he has the same problem and he sold me some good oil that he had made by Yamaha and he said that he uses it and it works great. It is Yamalube 4 cycle engine oil SAE 10W30/API SH
which is the red label.
and hey dude that is using the engine oil that is okay to use on a older bike i bet but the newer bikes you will screw up your friction plates really quick if you use engine oil because it isnt made to be used on a wet clutch that 2 stroke bikes have. And i was using that Bel Ray SAE 80w and the yamaha dealer said that it is too heavy and that it goes right through your clutch like it isnt even there when it is supposed to go around the clutch and between the plates if you know what i mean just try the yamalube and see how u like it.i hope this helps i dont know yet i am just going by what he told me but i bet he is right because he also races too and he is one of my good ridding buddies.

 

[problmpc]

Thanks, I was thinking of trying the yama-4 10w-30 but i noticed it was 4-cycle... but ill try it anyway.

Thanks for the tips...

 

[YoTRacer158]

i dont see how a gear oil can help...if you dont shift like a panzy and just kick it into gear you shouldnt have problems...if you do have a lot of problems look into a possible broken/bent shift fork

 

[00kawa125]

We had our engine built (TMR) and they did a mod to help shifting under load while they had the engine apart. I don't know the exact mod but I know there is one at least for the YZ80.

We use ATF fluid in our transmission. But our builders have recomended Maxima MTL-R or equivilent.

 

[nikki]

Funny that you posted this!

A month or two ago my buddy blew up his '01 CR 125 in practice at Red Bud and raced my '01 YZ 125. He loved the power of the YZ but did complain about hitting neutral a few times!

I never have a problem of hitting neutral on accident on my YZ... so I think it's just a change between how the two bikes shift. Like maybe you can shift from 3rd to 2nd on a Honda by stomping down on the shifter but maybe the Yamaha doesn't take as much of a stomp - hence skipping 2nd and hitting neutral? Or maybe the shifter lever/position is a little different?

 

[MXP1MP]

There's just a small difference in the way the bikes shift coming off a '01 CR I could tell. Like on the CR you move the shifter like 1/4" in the throw and it be in the next gear. The YZ seems to have tiny bit longer throw so it took a minimal amount to adjust to it. The only time I noticed it really is going from 1st to 2nd. The first two times I took the bike out I missed that shift a few times but only cause I was being lazy with the lever. Cause like on the CR you could accidently slip your toe under the lever and it would shift even if your toe slipped out from under it. The YZ it felt like at first I had to apply alittle more pressure to the lever. Now that I've gotten more time on the bike this isn't any issue anymore just took alittle adjustment time. I also do not suggest using ATF in your tranny is reduces the life of the transmission.

 

[Troy_776]

i guess it could be the transfer

i use to ride honda and now i am ridding a yamaha so i guess it could be the transfer from honda to yamaha but there have been alot of people that i have talked to that ride a yamaha have had a problem with hitting nuetral and i have heard that the 2002 YZ 125's are even worse since yamaha switched to a 5 speed transmission.

Nikki i think i have heard of you before i went to a website or something but im not sure but i hear you are really good if you are the girl that i think you are did you go to Lorretta Lynns this year and if you did what place did you get? I am just wondering what does Loretta Lynns consist of do they have different classes rather than just pretty much the top ametures? I bet there is a C class there but i bet they are like A riders at their home track right, well you look really impressive with all of your spoonsors so the best of luck too ya and have a great season next year.

 

[problmpc]

Thanks for the info.. I think it is the switch, ive had the bike about 4 weeks now. and havent hit N as much as i use to, heck actually i dont even go as low as first gear anymore ( only on the AX track ) but i havent hit N in a while so i think im getting use to it. I think there is a diff from tranny to tranny.. My YZ 250 doesnt do it though, only my YZ 125. But im getting use to it. :)

 

[cvgphil]

Try this

This is not technically a clutch modification but it does apparently help with the notchy shifting and accidental neutrals. This modification may help with the issues surrounding the "neutral" problems and "notchiness" on the 250Fs. This modification may help with the problem of accidentally finding neutral, and may improve the notchiness. Basically when you look at the ramps that you have to climb to shift from 1-2 and 2-1 its immediately obvious why its a notchy transmission. Basically neutral is just too damn big and easy to find. This is a death sentence on a motocross bike and a constant source of annoyance for tight trail riders.

The Part

The shift star wheel is located under the right side cover under the clutch. In order to remove it the clutch must come off. It costs about $35. The ONLY tricky thing to remember here is that its not a 2-stroke so there are a few o-rings and seals that connect the right side case to the engine. Without a correct reassembly you may not have full oil pressure. Also, almost forgot, what flops into each "slot" is a wheel held on the end of a spring loaded shaft. The "wheel" is almost the diameter of a dime. This assembly is called a shift detent mechanism.

Operating Theory

Note that there is a false neutral between 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5. All bikes have them because it is mechanically impossible for 2 gears to be engaged at once. If you get nothing else out of this remember that it is there. And remember that when you are doing a big 4th gear jump, especially when the gearsets are lightly loaded (ie; partial throttle) KEEP YOUR FOOT AWAY FROM THE SHIFTER. Because there is always that slight chance that you could unknowingly pull your tranny into one of these false neutrals, with just the weight of your boot, and execute a perfect forward somersault. Not fun. The tranny will work fine as long as you don't hambone it. That's why the false neutrals are located on "points" on the star wheel. It is meant to flop into one gear or the other. Do not interfere with this process when life and limb are at stake. If you still have doubts put your bike on a stand. Snick it into 3rd. Now rotate the back wheel back and forth as you ever so slowly pull the bike into 4th. At one point it will go into neutral. Now you know where you are: you are balanced on one of the "points" on the shifter star wheel.

Procedure

Here is the stock part with marks where is should be modified. I used a file to do it. Remember that the point here is to make the ramps on either side of neutral similar to the ramps for the other gears. You also want to reduce the size of neutral itself. But keep the 2 "points" as sharp as you can as you can so the shift detent wheel can't rest there.

Final notes and warnings:

Its an easily reversible modification as a replace part is relatively cheap.
Understand the process by shifting the bike when its apart. Its important to get the "feel" of things so you know how far you should proceed with the filing.

Neutral will become harder to find, of course. This is the goal you want.
There is a possibility that the shift detent can "balance" on the points between 1-2 or 2-1 after you are done filling. This could lead to some funny neutrals when the bike is idling by itself. I have had ZERO problems, in fact that's why I started filing in the first place. But be warned. I would not go revving the piss out of the engine (in neutral / clutch engaged) with your friend standing in front of the bike.

Two things we all get out of this (regardless as to whether you do the mod or not):
Watch the weight of your foot on the shifter when jumping.
Don't stand in front of a bike that is being revved to the moon with the clutch engaged. Neutral is a very, very relative thing. It can come and go at the worst possible moments!

 

[yz125_894]

I have also a 02 yz125 and i have noticed on more than one occasion that i hit neutral but it seems to only be when i dont completly shift it up just lightly kick it up on the road. If your on a track and have your body in the attack position and hit neutral it can throw you foward ( i know this from experience) and almost off the bike. Just kick the hell out of it when you shift.:thumb: