z-start clutch / bar mounted rear brake

mark_england

Member
Mar 6, 2002
156
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just thought i had to speak up about this,,

At the start of this year i was looking for a new bike and had narrowed it down to a ktm450 (leccy boot ) or the crf (kickstart )

i eventually decided on the honda.

i then fitted a Z-Start clutch to my 03crf.
now i fitted this not cus. i wanted an auto clutch, but rarther cus i wanted to fit a hydraulic back brake on the
bars.
[i heard about auto clutches from a guywho rode for a GP team i was involved with]

well all i can say is i know think i have the perfect set up.
the brake works an absolute dream. i can now enter turns faster and brake later, also i can drag the rear brake a little thro rutted tight turns to help the front wheel bight better.
i used a grimeca clutch master cylinder and had an earls braided hose made up.

now as for the clutch, all i can say is it works flawlesly.
i thought i could use a manual clutch pretty well.,,,that is until i fitted the z-start.
sunday i was practising in pretty nasty conditions, tight deeply rutted woods in thick wet sloppy mud, exposed tree roots and near zero grip.

there where bodies and bikes sprawled out all over the place.
the clutch made it so very easy,
i stalled only three times in 4 hours of riding.
once because i left the fuel switched off.
and twice with a sort of cough/pop when dropping from high revs, im pretty sure this is a air /fuel issue on the pilot circuit.


i now go looking for the nasty bits just for the fun of it.

i recently managed to keep up with my mate on his montesa trial bike up a slate bed river which included ice like
rock climbs, and up a 4ft waterfall ,,,all this on a full blown crosser, with no added flywheel wieght

for those of you that may think the z-start [or any auto clutch) is cheating, or only for riders who lack skill, try and get a ride on a bike with one fitted.

All i know is my riding fun has increased x4.

the hydro brake/z-start is just great.(im my opinion)

Al Youngworths even shipped the product to me in the UK prior to any sort of payment.... brilliant.





by the way, im glad i didnt buy the KTM
(who needs electric start if you dont stall?)
 

Lemming

Looking for single women!
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Jan 19, 2000
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I have the Z-start clutch on my 450 and love it.  I agree, it makes riding a blast.  I've thought about the getting the handlebar mounted rear brake but didn't know if you had to get rid of the rear foot brake or can both be used?
 

mark_england

Member
Mar 6, 2002
156
0
lemming , i made the back brake up myself didnt buy. didnt buy it as a kit.
if iwantedi could off just connected it via a double bango bolt to the caliper, this would of kept the foot back brake, tho to be honest, i didnt mind not having that.
 

MikeT

~SPONSOR~
Jan 17, 2001
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Mark, is your rear hydraulic brake only operated from the bars, or can it also be operated from the rear pedal if you want?
 

red 450

Member
Oct 27, 2001
45
0
Mark I don't think that a double banjo bolt would work. Without a valve in the line when you used your lever brake you would just pressure up your rear brake reservoir. This would give you no braking at all. That has been the problem all along with attempting this brake conversion, nobody has the right valve. I've got the Revloc cable system that allows you to use both the lever and the foot brake. I haven't seen anyother system that allows you to do this.
 

JasonJ

Member
Jun 15, 2001
1,150
1
What is the rev lock like a cable that goes down and works the rear master cyl by the brake pedal?
With out a valve, I would think you could braze your resivior opening shut on the foot valve and remove the resivior, you should only need the one on the bar. Or you could thread in a bleedeer maybe to help get the air out but that would not be needed, just a good bleed. I dont know if pushing the foot peadel would then pump fluid into the bar resivior, It depends on how the bar lever is plumbed.
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
7,978
249
You can check out www.cyclebrakes.com. They have one that is billet that goes on the clutch side. I think it is roughly $350 or so.

If you order it tell Melissa I sent you. She has been great answering my e-mails and as soon as I have the money I'm getting one.

Ivan
 

red 450

Member
Oct 27, 2001
45
0
The Revloc kit is a regular lever that operates a cable that is attached to the rear of your foot brake pedal. It works O.K. but lacks the feel of a hydraulic unit. In order to keep both the foot brake and the lever brake in operation you would have to have a valve body installed somewhere in the line. A hydraulic master cylinder is an open system to the reservoir until the lever is slightly moved to close off the bleed port. I know that street bikes run thumb brakes as well as the rear but I don't know how they do it. Must be some crotch rocket pilots here who know how it is done.
 

mark_england

Member
Mar 6, 2002
156
0
i just took the foot brake off completely, i didnt see the need for it at all.

hmmm i didnt think about the need for a valve, but the more i do the less that would seem possible. if there was a valve u would press on the rear brake. and it would stay on as the fluid would not be able to return thro it to release the brake.

i guess rigging both up isnt as simple as i first thought.
 

wsmc831

~SPONSOR~
Apr 30, 2002
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The rear brake setup from Rev-lok does lack a bit of feel, but the benefits are well worth it.

both bar mounted lever and foot pedal work great. Was also a main reason I bought an EFM clutch.
 

mark_england

Member
Mar 6, 2002
156
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im not sure why you would wAnt both the bar mounted back brake and the foot opperated one.
one or the other sure, but wouldnt having both just be unessesary and confusing?.

those of u with an auto clutch and no bar mounted rear brake, how do you cope if you stall on a steep hill, i know it shouldnt stall, but if it does surely your a bit stuffed?
 

wsmc831

~SPONSOR~
Apr 30, 2002
298
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The rear brake lever doesn't offer quite the stopping power of the pedal. If you really need to lock up the rear at high speed, you'd use the pedal.

It's not confusing, I wouldn't want just one or the other, besides, the revlok actually attaches to the end of the pedal.
 

JasonJ

Member
Jun 15, 2001
1,150
1
I dont know, I rode a buddys quad in the winter and it has an automatic clutch and a linked braking system with a brake were the clutch should be, I had to pull the cabel out of it and just hold it in all the time to keep from jamming the brakes when I went to stop. I could just see gettting used to a revloc and then jumping on my street bike :O .
 

KiwiBird

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Jan 30, 2000
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If the seals in your foot brake master were good you could remove the resevoir from the foot and run the hand lever hose to where the foot resevoir hose was.
 

whyzee

Never enough time !
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Dec 24, 2001
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Originally posted by Kiwi Bird
If the seals in your foot brake master were good you could remove the resevoir from the foot and run the hand lever hose to where the foot resevoir hose was.
Not the best advice, in my opinion. Yes, I would block off the foot resevoir with a plate, but I would piggy-back the hand lever hose to the outlet of the foot master cylinder with a new and longer banjo bolt.
Just my .02
 
Last edited:

Ervin

Member
Nov 12, 1999
12
0
Some of the 4 whellers have a rear disk brake that has two input lines, one from the foot lever and one from the left hand brake lever. this may be what you are looking for. Ervin.
 

Chas M

Member
Apr 5, 2002
5
0
Regarding the RevLoc left hand cable operated rear brake. I am using one on my RevLoc equipped '02 KTM 520 EXC. The extension from the back of the rear brake pedal has two holes for the brake cable hookup. The factory suggests using the innermost hole for cable attachment which works OK, but I have found that using the outer hole works much better. The braking is more sensitive, more progressive, and much stronger.
 

JasonJ

Member
Jun 15, 2001
1,150
1
Quote:
Originally posted by Kiwi Bird
If the seals in your foot brake master were good you could remove the resevoir from the foot and run the hand lever hose to where the foot resevoir hose was.

Thats just crazy enough to work, you may need to check the size of the resivior hole to see if it allows fast enough flow to work the brake clean though. Also I dont know what would happen if you hit the hand brake once you had already hit the foot brake, I would think you would put fluid under pressure behind the foot brake master cyl piston witch might keep the piston from returning or blow out what ever dust seal is on the front of the push rod?

Whyzee, from your picture I still dont see how the foot brake wont pump the fluid into the hand brake resivior.

Ervin, your probably right, finding a LBS valve sounds like the way to go, Ill have to go poke around some peoples quads with a wrench when they are not looking and see how they work :O Heheheheh.
 
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