04 KX250 Fouls Plugs Often / But intermittent

[telecons]

The problem below was solved by rebuilding the bottom end. Esp new crank seals. All on Kawasaki's tab.

Bike starts well each ride, one kick, often w out choke.
====================

Have 04 KX250. Plenty of plug fouling.

(See startup patterns at end)

Tried what dealer recommneded (seems like a cop out rather than a fix) - less choke and high revs all the time - not always possible - could cold sieze.

Hotter plug NGK B8ES as well as other dealer recommended plugs.

High octane gas.

Many starting techniques tried.

Have read many posts on diff forums, all say change main and pilot jet to leaner. Tweaked air speed screw to my elevation. Raise needle clip. (each in 1 step increments)

Mix is 40:1. Recently even tried 45:1. Started w Kaw racing oil, went to honda.

Appears that float might be sticking, although dealer says it's ok.

This is more comlicated than it needs to be. Haven't changed jets, needle yet. Dealer disagrees with changing any jets, needle. Say could cause serious problems.

Appears to be fuel related, but to me seems carb related more than anything else. One post said that the trans oil could be leaking in thru main seal at end of crank, but tran oil level stays in good shape.

Today? I am leaning towards changing jets, needle. What else is there?


Here are some patterns:
===Pattern A===
-bike sits with fuel in tank, line, carb. Could be over night or 30 minutes.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-plugout is usually wet due to flooding, no spark at electrode
-starts right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding is BIG. Fresh plug = hang on tight, immediate strong low end torque. AWSOME! Then things get mellowed out. Not as jumpy on low end. Still good on high end.

===Pattern B===
-after prior ride, turn off gas, run engine until all gas is out of line and carb.
-bike sits with fuel in tank over night.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-start right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Same power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding.

===Pattern C===
-after previous ride, turn off gas, run engine until all gas is out of line and carb.
-bike sits with fuel in tank over night. carb empty, line empty. Tip bike on side to make sure any remaining fuel is drained.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-start right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Same power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding.


Best success with draining all fuel from tank, line, carb after ride. BUT I DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE TO DO THIS.

-----
Have tried other techniques but same problem almost w each day's ride.


===HISTORY 2005-05-28 Mods, Test, Fouling Persists

First, I'd like to thank every one for pitching in their views. Always, welcome and appreciated.

a. Reduced main jet one size down from #165 to #162 (this is how they are numbered).
b. Reduced slow jet one size down from #52 to #50 (ditto numbering).
c. Kept Needle Position in #2 position, unchanged.
d. Air filter very clean.
e. Trans oil was consumed during period of time from after test ride to next day am. Dropped from showing 1/3 in window to non-visible. NO TRACE OF EXTERNAL TRANS OIL LEAKS. Gotta be going somewhere. This may be cause of initial fouling, spooge, excessive oil burning at start of each day.
f. runs a little warmer, but not excessive.
g. power range is good from 1/4 throttle and up.
h. idle much better.
i. examined plug - dry & black w/ non-gassy smell, (formerly wet, sooty, gassy smell)
j. Examined float: operation is ok, no obvious obstructions to movement, carb was formerly tilted some, installed so float does not move at angle. Chkd for holes, no gas inside float.

Cold Start after mods:
-started & ran for about 45 secs w choke.
-top of radiator started to get warm.
-during that time, tried to turn off choke but wanted to stall, feathered throttle very slightly
-fouled plug
-put in new plug & started up, no choke
-plenty of spooge, thick smoke, moderate revs, seemed like it was going to foul also, but burned past thick smoke. ran ok.
-rode for a while, great power in full range.
-hand refurbed fouled plug, installed, started up, no choke, ran well, rode some more.

! We'll see what happends next startup. Will need to add more trans oil though.

The amount of spooge at the beggining of each day is way too much than what could be extracted from gas in carb - let's say starting with petcock off.

Did the math last night. So far from brand new, used 7 tanks of gas (on 8 now), 18 rides, has fouled plugs 50 times. Has fouled @ start of each ride day, even w new plugs from getgo. This is, in my opinion way out there! Dealer says its starting and riding style that causes this. Geez! I'm not as stupid as dealer implies. Esp since I've followed Kas and Dealer's recommendations by the book. Have moved on to concepts like you all's.

Thanks for the views. I'm looking at this with all angles.

Thanks to every one.
Problem still there.
Edging toward replacing crank seals. I think dealer should pay for it. What do you all think?

 

[oldguy]

If draining fuel between rides seems to help I would lean to the float either not floating or being set incorrectly. This would allow excess fuel to flow into the bowl and eventually into the carb. I had the same problem with the float in an older bike and once the float was replaced it never reoccurred.

There is also a chance that a good cleaning might reveal a very small foreign material in the float needle hole preventing the float from shutting off the fuel flow when the bowl is full.

 

[nickyd]

I have a similar issue with my bike - 96 RM 250. been through all the bells and whistles. if i start the bike and try to run it before its "warmed" she will die out and not start unless i put a fresh plug in. put in a fresh plug and the bike will run all day with no issue. I personally am leaning towards a bad crank seal on the clutch side. I have not had time to eliminate this - sorry if this does not help but just another suggestion....

 

[DanAKAL]

telecons, it seems your bike has all of the classic symptoms of being jetted too rich. This is very common with a new bike from a dealer. It is jetted rich as being too rich will foul plugs where too lean will burn pistons. I expect this is why the dealer is telling you not to change your jetting. Besides carb jetting the single most important thing that will make a bike rich is a dirty air filter. Start with a clean/oiled air filter, pick the fuel/oil ratio you want to use and stick with it. Not to get anything started but somewhere between 30:1 to 40:1 should be fine for your 250. My KX is 32:1. Make sure you have fresh fuel/oil and then check the jetting.

To get an idea for jetting your bike go here. http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/ This is actually for a KDX but the principles are the same. When this link opens on the left select “KDX Tech Tips” then at the bottom of the page under Engine select “Carb Tuning”. A little bit of reading here will have you on your way to determining the jetting for your bike.

I usually work with my carb jetting until I get it where riding the bike is like a “Beast On A Leash” all of the way through operation. The engine is ultra responsive and is hitting very hard. In a five minute ride I can feel the radiators getting very hot through my knees. At this point the bike is jetted too lean. From here I go up one or two jet sizes to make it richer. This usually works well for me and I do not have any further issues with starting and fouling plugs. After you get the bike jetted to what you think is proper run it and look at the plug. It will tell you what is going on. If you have to make an error or a marginal decision make it on the rich side. Better for life of the engine to be a little rich than a little lean.

While you have the carb open make sure to check the float and its operation. If you do not have fuel coming out the carb overflow then likely the float is working.

Dan

 

[telecons]

Many thanks - Please see HISTORY list in my original post.

If draining fuel between rides seems to help I would lean to the float either not floating or being set incorrectly. This would allow excess fuel to flow into the bowl and eventually into the carb. I had the same problem with the float in an older bike and once the float was replaced it never reoccurred.

There is also a chance that a good cleaning might reveal a very small foreign material in the float needle hole preventing the float from shutting off the fuel flow when the bowl is full.

 

[telecons]

Various Settings on the way to "Just Right"

Many thanks - Please see HISTORY list in my original post.

telecons, it seems your bike has all of the classic symptoms of being jetted too rich. This is very common with a new bike from a dealer. It is jetted rich as being too rich will foul plugs where too lean will burn pistons. I expect this is why the dealer is telling you not to change your jetting. Besides carb jetting the single most important thing that will make a bike rich is a dirty air filter. Start with a clean/oiled air filter, pick the fuel/oil ratio you want to use and stick with it. Not to get anything started but somewhere between 30:1 to 40:1 should be fine for your 250. My KX is 32:1. Make sure you have fresh fuel/oil and then check the jetting.

To get an idea for jetting your bike go here. http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/ This is actually for a KDX but the principles are the same. When this link opens on the left select “KDX Tech Tips” then at the bottom of the page under Engine select “Carb Tuning”. A little bit of reading here will have you on your way to determining the jetting for your bike.

I usually work with my carb jetting until I get it where riding the bike is like a “Beast On A Leash” all of the way through operation. The engine is ultra responsive and is hitting very hard. In a five minute ride I can feel the radiators getting very hot through my knees. At this point the bike is jetted too lean. From here I go up one or two jet sizes to make it richer. This usually works well for me and I do not have any further issues with starting and fouling plugs. After you get the bike jetted to what you think is proper run it and look at the plug. It will tell you what is going on. If you have to make an error or a marginal decision make it on the rich side. Better for life of the engine to be a little rich than a little lean.

While you have the carb open make sure to check the float and its operation. If you do not have fuel coming out the carb overflow then likely the float is working.

Dan

 

[telecons]

All suggestions are very welcome. I'm grasping here! Just want to ride.

I have a similar issue with my bike - 96 RM 250. been through all the bells and whistles. if i start the bike and try to run it before its "warmed" she will die out and not start unless i put a fresh plug in. put in a fresh plug and the bike will run all day with no issue. I personally am leaning towards a bad crank seal on the clutch side. I have not had time to eliminate this - sorry if this does not help but just another suggestion....

 

[telecons]

Many thanks - Please see HISTORY list in my original post.

 

[telecons]

History

Many thanks - Please see HISTORY list in my original post.

telecons, it seems your bike has all of the classic symptoms of being jetted too rich. This is very common with a new bike from a dealer. It is jetted rich as being too rich will foul plugs where too lean will burn pistons. I expect this is why the dealer is telling you not to change your jetting. Besides carb jetting the single most important thing that will make a bike rich is a dirty air filter. Start with a clean/oiled air filter, pick the fuel/oil ratio you want to use and stick with it. Not to get anything started but somewhere between 30:1 to 40:1 should be fine for your 250. My KX is 32:1. Make sure you have fresh fuel/oil and then check the jetting.

To get an idea for jetting your bike go here. http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/ This is actually for a KDX but the principles are the same. When this link opens on the left select “KDX Tech Tips” then at the bottom of the page under Engine select “Carb Tuning”. A little bit of reading here will have you on your way to determining the jetting for your bike.

I usually work with my carb jetting until I get it where riding the bike is like a “Beast On A Leash” all of the way through operation. The engine is ultra responsive and is hitting very hard. In a five minute ride I can feel the radiators getting very hot through my knees. At this point the bike is jetted too lean. From here I go up one or two jet sizes to make it richer. This usually works well for me and I do not have any further issues with starting and fouling plugs. After you get the bike jetted to what you think is proper run it and look at the plug. It will tell you what is going on. If you have to make an error or a marginal decision make it on the rich side. Better for life of the engine to be a little rich than a little lean.

While you have the carb open make sure to check the float and its operation. If you do not have fuel coming out the carb overflow then likely the float is working.

Dan

 

[telecons]

Many thanks - Please see HISTORY list in my original post.

What year KX do you have? Is it 250cc? Went to site. Good info. Some terms differ from design of my carb. (slow v pilot). I still have questions.

When I first got the bike, the plug insulator stayed wet, gassy smell and dark black (in working non-fouled condition). Engine cooled down fast after rides. Very rich Id say.

Currently, after recent main jet & slow jet changes, both down a size, plug is dry, no gassy smell, dark black. Seems it getting close. Engine runs hotter. How much is too hot though? Goal is to get brown plug insulator down inside and good performance w/ out blowing anything up.

Float looks ok. May have some very infrequent gas drip from overflow. Haven't tested or adjusted float level bcz carb was still attached while changing jets.

Id like to put clip in 1st position next. See what that does.

Thanks Dan

 

[telecons]

Nick:

I have had my suspisions about seals. Fouling happens when the bike sits. Overnight, 1 hour. Then fouling occurs just like yours - at warmup. The frustration comes from what dealer recommends "Start cold w choke just to get it started, then turn off choke and rev it high to keep it going." Well, just like you, that procedure fouls it.

I'm looking at several things, but am narrowing it down to the cause. My hunch is that seals could be a problem. Trans oil getting into the bottom end while cooling down could be a big fouling problem. Bike has only fouled during a ride (past the spooge burnoff phase) once. I know I'm loosing trans oil and its not to the outside.

Thanks

 

[nickyd]

I suspect the seal on mine b/c my jetting BASE was what FMF recommended for my setup - I tweaked from there...when I changed from the stock jetting to what FMF said, there was no change to my problem - i mean ZERO. then I did the top end - she fired up, road around to break it in and within one day, problem was back...still stalling and fouling....and its bizarre b/c once you foul it and it stalls, there is NO way whatsoever to get it to restart with that plug...even if you clean it, heat it up to burn off crap and put it back in...however, if you put a new plug in, the bike will start first kick and you can ride all day.

 

[DanAKAL]

Were this my bike I would start by trying to eliminate possibilities. From what you have here you suspect two things. Carb jetting and burning oil. Lets eliminate one of these if possible.


Tranny oil:
Forget about looking in that little window. Drain the oil from your tranny and refill measuring how much you put in. If it requires 700 ml then measure it and put it in. Ride the bike for awhile and drain the oil. Measure how much you drained to see if the bike is truly using oil. If it is then determine where it is going. Without external leaks water pump and crank seals are the first places to look.

Carb Jetting:
As always start with a clean air filter and fresh fuel mixed at whatever your favorite rate is and whatever your favorite flavor of oil. With the bike shut down turn the air screw in counting the number of turns until it is all of the way in. Return the air screw the same number of turns until it is at its original starting point. Start your bike and adjust it up to a high idle. Increasing the idle set point works best. Adjust the air screw out until the idle increases to its highest RPM and turning the air screw further does not increase RPM. A tachometer is best for checking this but not many KX’s have tachometers. You’ll just have to listen to the engine. After you do this a few times you’ll get the hang of it. By turning the air screw in or out you will begin to hear the changes in RPM. These changes will be subtle so listen closely. Adjust the air screw in or out until you have found the point where turning it in will decrease RPM and turning it out will not increase RPM. Shut down the engine. Turn the air screw in counting the number of turns until it is fully against the seat and will go no further. Then turn the air screw out the same number of turns as it took to get it against the seat. If it required two full turns or more to get the air screw all of the way in then the pilot jet is too large (rich) and should be replaced with a smaller jet. If it required one turn or less to get the air screw all of the way in then the pilot jet is too small (lean) and should be replaced with a larger jet. Replace pilot jets as necessary and continue this procedure until your air screw is between 1 and 1 ¾ turn out. At this point your pilot jet is of the proper size and no further attention need be given to the pilot.

The only method that I know besides vacuum gauges to check the main jet and needle position is by riding the bike. I go more by feel of what the bike is doing than anything else. Is the response sluggish or crisp in the mid or open throttle? Sluggish is a rich condition and crisp is lean. We all want a bike that responds quickly and fast. This is the condition we are trying to reach. However, response like this is obtained by leaning the fuel. We want to take it up to the point where it is lean but not so lean that it will damage the engine. I know my bike is lean when it is hitting very hard and feels like I am barley able to hold on to a big dog on a leash. Also, the radiators are quite hot. So much that I can feel the heat through the shrouds and my pants to my knees. DO NOT OPERATE THE BIKE IN THIS CONDITION! A few minutes, 3 or 4, of riding time will tell you quickly the bike is too lean. If riding your bike feels pretty good or you aren’t sure really what is going on then change the main jet and see what happens. As you change jets the response of your engine will change. Don’t do anything radical like six jet sizes. Just change one jet size and see what happens. If nothing then change another jet size in the same direction of lean or rich. Usually no more than two sizes will produce a different response from your bike. Keep doing this until your bike is lean then go up one jet size and see what the response is like. If it is still lean then go up another jet size until you find the one that provides the response you want without being too lean.

After you have the main jet you want do the same procedure for the needle position. If you aren’t sure then change the clip position. Raising the needle will make the mid range richer and lowering the needle will make it leaner. There aren’t many bikes that have the needle clip in either the #1 or #5 position. Almost all of them are in the middle three.

When you feel you have the main jet and needle where you want them run the bike and chop the throttle. Pull the spark plug out and it will tell you what is going on. Always error on the side of being too rich as this only fouls plugs where lean can burn pistons.

The starting procedure that your dealer is telling you is the same procedure I have been using for almost thirty years of racing two strokes. The problem is that in order for this to work the bike has to be jetted properly. A rich bike will produce untold of starting problems. I once lost 44 minutes in an enduro trying to get my bike restarted after I stalled it. That won’t happen to me again! I only had six points until this happened in the last twenty miles of the race.

Cold Bike:
-Choke On
-Don’t touch the throttle
-Roll the kick starter over easily five or six times
-Crack the throttle and kick it like you mean it! (Bike will usually start the first couple of kicks if it doesn’t start when you are just rolling it over)
-Choke off as soon as the bike is running (Keep the engine alive by blipping the throttle)
-Don’t let it idle more than 15 to 20 seconds until you get it moving.

Warm Bike:
-Crack the throttle and kick it like you mean it

Hot Engine: i.e. at race pace
- Fully open the throttle to get in as much air as possible and kick it like you mean something!

These are the things that I do regardless what color or size my two stroke bike is. They have worked on everything from 125’s to 500’s. One of the biggest things about most of this is experience. It is very difficult to explain experience but as you go you will learn how to tell what your bike is doing and why. By knowing these you will learn what to do to correct problems.

Dan

 

[fatherturtle]

Be carefull on your blips durring start up. These bikes do have electronic power jets to inject more fuel into your engine and there is timing changes durring certain rpms. If you have a cold bike and you run too many rpm's durring start up you will activate the electronics and foul a plug.
Just last night I saw a guy at the track warming up his bike by grabbing a hand full of throttle over and over again. That bike sounded so terrible. I felt sorry for the bike I wanted to walk over to the owner and punch him in his cake hole and say that's for you being a idiot. I don't blip or anything on my bike anymore. One kick it starts. Turn choke on long enough to start. As soon as fires turn off choke. Increase rpm just above idle. If you listen to how your engine is acting you can tell it's lean or rich. Some times durring start up I have to pull a little choke to get it running a little rich again. When radiators are warmed up take off. Then I do a sighting lap and gradually give the bike more gas untill it is running clean and crisp.
I did have simular issues like you on my 03 kx and my problem was startup and pilot screw being too rich. From the factory the screw was out 3 turns. Now I am 1 1/2 witch I believe is standard.
I agree with DanAKAL his testing procedures are how I would do it. Good luck

 

[windyhill]

My 04 was doing the same thing, lots of smoke, spooge and fouling plugs. I went with the Pro Circuit recommended jetting, 162 main, 50 slow, air screw 1.5, #2 clip position and needle NAFG. The jets are basically 1 leaner than stock, but how they came up with that needle selection is beyond me. However the bike is running much better now, no clouds of smoke at start up, no spooge and no fouled plugs. John

 

[telecons]

Plug Foul Problem Solved

Kawasaki paid to redo the entire bottom end. What happened was that after a few short rides, the trans oil started to disapear fast, but not externally. So I brought it in, persistently kept telling dealer that I wasn't kidding around. 50 plug fouls in 7 tanks of gas was rediculous. They kept saying that I wasn't starting it right and had to keep the revs high all the time. I prooved them wrong by letting the bike idle for about and hour and a half. Then used that plug for a good long ride. When the bike sat after a ride, that's when the trans oil would get pulled into the bottom end.

About 6 phone calls to kawasaki later, they rebuilt the bottom end for free - no warranty. Highly unusual.

Now I have a slow external oil leak at the front sprocket when the bike is leaned on the stand.

But only fouled one plug after the rebuild, about 6 tanks from the rebuild point.

Still waiting for new seals.

Thanks Nick

Nick:

I have had my suspisions about seals. Fouling happens when the bike sits. Overnight, 1 hour. Then fouling occurs just like yours - at warmup. The frustration comes from what dealer recommends "Start cold w choke just to get it started, then turn off choke and rev it high to keep it going." Well, just like you, that procedure fouls it.

I'm looking at several things, but am narrowing it down to the cause. My hunch is that seals could be a problem. Trans oil getting into the bottom end while cooling down could be a big fouling problem. Bike has only fouled during a ride (past the spooge burnoff phase) once. I know I'm loosing trans oil and its not to the outside.

Thanks

 

[telecons]

Kawasaki paid to rebuild the bottom end. Spooge, plug fouls solved. It was bad crank seals.

Have 04 KX250. Plenty of plug fouling.

(See startup patterns at end)

Tried what dealer recommneded (seems like a cop out rather than a fix) - less choke and high revs all the time - not always possible - could cold sieze.

Hotter plug NGK B8ES as well as other dealer recommended plugs.

High octane gas.

Many starting techniques tried.

Have read many posts on diff forums, all say change main and pilot jet to leaner. Tweaked air speed screw to my elevation. Raise needle clip. (each in 1 step increments)

Mix is 40:1. Recently even tried 45:1. Started w Kaw racing oil, went to honda.

Appears that float might be sticking, although dealer says it's ok.

This is more comlicated than it needs to be. Haven't changed jets, needle yet. Dealer disagrees with changing any jets, needle. Say could cause serious problems.

Appears to be fuel related, but to me seems carb related more than anything else. One post said that the trans oil could be leaking in thru main seal at end of crank, but tran oil level stays in good shape.

Today? I am leaning towards changing jets, needle. What else is there?


Here are some patterns:
===Pattern A===
-bike sits with fuel in tank, line, carb. Could be over night or 30 minutes.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-plugout is usually wet due to flooding, no spark at electrode
-starts right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding is BIG. Fresh plug = hang on tight, immediate strong low end torque. AWSOME! Then things get mellowed out. Not as jumpy on low end. Still good on high end.

===Pattern B===
-after prior ride, turn off gas, run engine until all gas is out of line and carb.
-bike sits with fuel in tank over night.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-start right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Same power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding.

===Pattern C===
-after previous ride, turn off gas, run engine until all gas is out of line and carb.
-bike sits with fuel in tank over night. carb empty, line empty. Tip bike on side to make sure any remaining fuel is drained.
-start w fresh plug. warm up minumal choke, then warm rest of way w/out choke.
-runs for a short time, fouls plug. Put 2nd new plug in.
-start right up
-spooges out exhaust for couple minutes, burns a lot of oil, then burn normal oil/smoke.
-runs for rest of day ok.
-Same power difference between fresh plug v after 30 minutes riding.


Best success with draining all fuel from tank, line, carb after ride. BUT I DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE TO DO THIS.

-----
Have tried other techniques but same problem almost w each day's ride.


===HISTORY 2005-05-28 Mods, Test, Fouling Persists

First, I'd like to thank every one for pitching in their views. Always, welcome and appreciated.

a. Reduced main jet one size down from #165 to #162 (this is how they are numbered).
b. Reduced slow jet one size down from #52 to #50 (ditto numbering).
c. Kept Needle Position in #2 position, unchanged.
d. Air filter very clean.
e. Trans oil was consumed during period of time from after test ride to next day am. Dropped from showing 1/3 in window to non-visible. NO TRACE OF EXTERNAL TRANS OIL LEAKS. Gotta be going somewhere. This may be cause of initial fouling, spooge, excessive oil burning at start of each day.
f. runs a little warmer, but not excessive.
g. power range is good from 1/4 throttle and up.
h. idle much better.
i. examined plug - dry & black w/ non-gassy smell, (formerly wet, sooty, gassy smell)
j. Examined float: operation is ok, no obvious obstructions to movement, carb was formerly tilted some, installed so float does not move at angle. Chkd for holes, no gas inside float.

Cold Start after mods:
-started & ran for about 45 secs w choke.
-top of radiator started to get warm.
-during that time, tried to turn off choke but wanted to stall, feathered throttle very slightly
-fouled plug
-put in new plug & started up, no choke
-plenty of spooge, thick smoke, moderate revs, seemed like it was going to foul also, but burned past thick smoke. ran ok.
-rode for a while, great power in full range.
-hand refurbed fouled plug, installed, started up, no choke, ran well, rode some more.

! We'll see what happends next startup. Will need to add more trans oil though.

The amount of spooge at the beggining of each day is way too much than what could be extracted from gas in carb - let's say starting with petcock off.

Did the math last night. So far from brand new, used 7 tanks of gas (on 8 now), 18 rides, has fouled plugs 50 times. Has fouled @ start of each ride day, even w new plugs from getgo. This is, in my opinion way out there! Dealer says its starting and riding style that causes this. Geez! I'm not as stupid as dealer implies. Esp since I've followed Kas and Dealer's recommendations by the book. Have moved on to concepts like you all's.

Thanks for the views. I'm looking at this with all angles.

Thanks to every one.
Problem still there.
Edging toward replacing crank seals. I think dealer should pay for it. What do you all think?

-----------------------------
Kawasaki paid to rebuild the bottom end. Spooge, plug fouls solved. It was bad crank seals.

 

[telecons]

Sue enough, it was bad crank seals. No problems now.

Nick:

I have had my suspisions about seals. Fouling happens when the bike sits. Overnight, 1 hour. Then fouling occurs just like yours - at warmup. The frustration comes from what dealer recommends "Start cold w choke just to get it started, then turn off choke and rev it high to keep it going." Well, just like you, that procedure fouls it.

I'm looking at several things, but am narrowing it down to the cause. My hunch is that seals could be a problem. Trans oil getting into the bottom end while cooling down could be a big fouling problem. Bike has only fouled during a ride (past the spooge burnoff phase) once. I know I'm loosing trans oil and its not to the outside.

Thanks

 

[telecons]

Problem solved by replacing crack seals.

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Kawasaki paid to rebuild the bottom end. Spooge, plug fouls solved. It was bad crank seals.

 

[nickyd]

that's great news - the leak from the seal on output shaft is MOST likely due to the mechanic pulling the shaft through during the rebuild and not cleaning it prior - that's no big deal and can be replaced from the outside - it might just have some dirt in the seal. glad to hear your bike is pimped.