06 KDX 200 Rattling Noise

[jawx]

06 KDX 200 Rattling Noise.. UPDATE.. Needs top end

Hey guys,

This is my first post. I just bought a used 2006 KDX 200 thats in good condition for a great price. The owner says that it was maintained and never had any problems. I am hearing a bad rattling noise at idle. Ive done some research and found threads that relate to this but Im still confused on what to do. I used to own a 2001 KDX 220 that was quiet and did not make this noise. If anyone can help me out on this I would really appreciate it. My bike is in the shop right now getting a new tire, full service, and they are attempting to find out what the rattling noise is. They want to take the top end off to get a look at the insides. I dont want to spend a fortune on something that may not be necessarily bad or need to be fixed. I would love for the bike to be quieter and run the best it can. Ive read that it could be the KIPS system or the clutch plates/basket? Please help me out!

Thanks

 

[julien_d]

If the noise is present only at idle and goes away with throttle, it's normal kips valve rattle and nothing to worry about. Some do it more than others, but most all of them do it.

 

[OLHILLBILLY]

It's more than likely the KIPS rattle.
Did the shop do a compression test before wanting to take the motor apart, and what was the reading? I suspect the place is wanting to relieve you of some major $$$.
As for the tire change, how much are they charging you? 3 Motion Pro tire spoons cost about $45-$50 and you'll never pay for a shop to change your tires again. Takes about 45 minutes (and I'm slow) to change a tire, how much did you say they were charging you?
What are they doing and how much are they charging you for the "full service"? Change the gearcase oil (1 bolt and 750ml of 10-40 oil), adjust the cables and chain, check the air in the tires, 1 hour most.
2 stroke dirt bikes are very simple, a few basic hand tools, a Kawi shop manual, and a little bit of time can save you a lot of $$$.

 

[longtime coming]

+1 Exactly.

Have them do a compression test. Or buy a gauge and do it yourself. Full Service eh? Hmmm... Depends on the shop completely if you get value for your dollar.

 

[jawx]

Well I do trust this shop. But yea, it is still alot of money. I think the tire is gunna be $75, the full service is $75, and just to take the top end apart to check the insides is $65. I am mechanically inclined, Im just not experienced with bikes at all. I can do all the little stuff, I know I could do the full service by my self, I just used it as an excuse to get the noise checked out. I did this before researching and finding this site. I am going to call them tomorrow and tell them of my findings on this site. Then I will decide if I want them to go through with it. Im pretty sure they have already taken in apart. So its probably too late to save that money. I can at least stop them from doing anything else. But since its already been done is there anything I should have them do while the top end is apart? Cleaning, checking bearings and the piston? Im sure its still the stock piston so should I have them replace it? thanks again guys.

 

[OLHILLBILLY]

Have them clean the afore mentioned rattling KIPS. According to the KDX Tech Tips it can carbon up and seize, killing your bottom end power and possibly breaking something.

 

[jawx]

Ok will do. Is there anything else I should have them do while its apart. I mean the bike is a newer bike so Im not sure what could be wrong with it but they will tell me if they find anything worth repairing.

 

[jawx]

New top end...

So the shop just called and I went in to see the bike. The mechanic showed me the piston and cylinder. The piston is shot and needs to be replaced along with the rings. The cylinder wall has two small grooves in it (probably from sand or rocks) but he suggested leaving it how it is because its not that serious. They weren't deep grooves and Im on a budget anyways so I told him to leave it. As for bottom end, he said that everything checks out and looks good. The vavles are fine just alittle dirty. He is going to replace the piston, rings, and do a thorough cleaning of the top end. I knew that the rattling was much more serious than just "the normal KIPS rattle". The piston was so worn down that it was actually walking up the cylinder wall. On top of that it was extremely black from a misuse of oil.

If I didn't mention before, I just purchased this bike two weeks ago from the original owner who obviously didn't take care of it. This is the second KDX I've owned.

 

[mudpack]

The piston was so worn down that it was actually walking up the cylinder wall. On top of that it was extremely black from a misuse of oil.

Can you explain what you mean by "walking up the cylinder"?
I'll be interested to find out if replacing the piston stops your rattling noise.

 

[jawx]

from what the mechanic told me, instead of the piston smoothly going up and down, the edges became worn to the point that there was play in the piston and it causes it to shimmy all the way up. It is basically piston slap from the bottom of the cylinder. There is plenty of evidence to make it believable. On my last KDX I remember hearing a rattling noise but it was no where near as loud as this. Thats why I had the bike looked at. I mean aren't KDX's supposed to be quiet bikes? From what I've read on these forums most people agree that they are just generally loud. I thought that these bikes had a reputation of being stealthy, quiet bikes...

This is the stock piston by the way. Kawasaki recommends replacing it after the break in period, but who really does that? Obviously the previous owner of my bike did not.

 

[mudpack]

This is the stock piston by the way. Kawasaki recommends replacing it after the break in period, but who really does that?

I've seen this statement several times in this forum. Where does it originate?
The owner's manual for your 2006 KDX200H6F does recommend replacing the rings after break-in. It also recommends removing and inspecting the piston at that time, but does not say anything about replacing the piston...at least not that I can find. :whoa:
Maybe the earlier KDX200 manuals had this recommendation??

 

[jawx]

your right about that. I just checked my manual. I have heard it somewhere. Or maybe read it somewhere on this site. The mechanic said that the life of the stock piston isnt that long. And it is not uncommon for people to replace the piston eventually... lol. Well I know that the previous owner never even had the top end apart... haha. Oh well. Its getting repaired the proper way and I am certain I will notice a huge improvement in noise and performance...!

 

[jawx]

Hey does anyone know how much a top end job should cost? I am getting the piston and rings replaced and the top end cleaned. Can any body give me a rough estimate as to what a shop would charge? I know the parts alone should be around $100...

Thanks all.

 

[mudpack]

I'll check the flat-rate manual at the shop this morning and get back to you.

 

[mudpack]

Prices from my shop, YRMV:
head gasket 11004-1298 $29.32
cyl base gasket 11060-1659 $7.72
piston ring set 13008-1116 $40.22
piston 13001-1317 $100.06
pin snap rings 92033-1242 $5.06

Labor: figure 1.5hrs @ whatever your shop charges (most shop have a labor rate around $75/hr)

Mud

 

[Kaleel]

My '01 rattles at idle too. I dunno what it is but it seems typical for these bikes. I had two compression checks by the dealership and the compression is tip top so that has nothing to do with it. I think it's what many refer to as th 'KIPS rattle'. I was kinda alarmed about the rattle too when I got my '01 KDX 'cause my '84 KDX didn't do this. I've seen a bunch of KDX's on the trail that rattle. So again I think it's a common thing.

Mike

 

[jawx]

yea well this rattle that I was hearing was extremely loud. Almost hard to hear somebody talking next to the bike.... Not the normal KIPS rattle. My 01 rattled a bit but not this bad! haha.