1967 Triumph TR6C Rebuild by a noob.

Okiewan

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Dec 31, 1969
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Texas
Not a great day!
Started cleaning it up for disassembly...

I discovered a case repair on the primary side. Looks like the primary chain must have slapped/snapped or something?? It doesn't look to be from wear (loose chain), there was def. impact of some kind. Broke a piece of the casting inside by what appears to be an oil outlet just above the clutch (hole is still there and appears unaffected.

From the outside I noticed the piece welded in due to the difference in surface texture. Inside the bead is obvious. Looks like they did a good job, but...

So then, I'm looking over everything closely, and I find a hairline crack in the case above the drive sprocket. I'll attach pics of each. Since it's near the other damage, I guess it could be from the same problem, but no idea.

I cleaned and went over the frame today as well... didn't find anything, but will go over it in more detail tomorrow.

I'll go ahead and assume this will kill collectible value. The question is, should I continue with the rebuild or just check / replace the trap and put it back together?

That sure took the wind out of my sails!

Pic #1 . welds / inside casing damage

ff46a437-2135-4c12-9cdd-498c341bb7c3.jpg


Pic #2 Hairline crack above drive sprocket.

1575683876513.png


Pic #3 location of crack for ref.

crack.jpg
 

Ol'89r

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Jan 27, 2000
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Not a great day!
Started cleaning it up for disassembly...

I discovered a case repair on the primary side. Looks like the primary chain must have slapped/snapped or something?? It doesn't look to be from wear (loose chain), there was def. impact of some kind. Broke a piece of the casting inside by what appears to be an oil outlet just above the clutch (hole is still there and appears unaffected.

From the outside I noticed the piece welded in due to the difference in surface texture. Inside the bead is obvious. Looks like they did a good job, but...

So then, I'm looking over everything closely, and I find a hairline crack in the case above the drive sprocket. I'll attach pics of each. Since it's near the other damage, I guess it could be from the same problem, but no idea.

I cleaned and went over the frame today as well... didn't find anything, but will go over it in more detail tomorrow.

I'll go ahead and assume this will kill collectible value. The question is, should I continue with the rebuild or just check / replace the trap and put it back together?

That sure took the wind out of my sails!

Pic #1 . welds / inside casing damage

View attachment 20785

Pic #2 Hairline crack above drive sprocket.

View attachment 20786

Pic #3 location of crack for ref.

View attachment 20787
It's your lucky day. I can fix that for you. It's one of the things I do in my shop. The photo below shows a few other tools I use. #2 is a home made tool for removing and installing the clutch springs. If you have the tool kits with the bikes you should have tool #1. It is a tire tool and also a clutch spring tool on the other end. #3 is a homemade tool for removing the screwed plug that holds the sludge tube in. If you make one, make sure it fits the screwdriver slot tightly and use an impact driver to remove it. #4 is a 9/16 X 18 tap used to remove the sludge tube. I drop a short piece of rod(#5) into the sludge tube (#6) and run the tap down the tube. The rod bottoms out and draws the sludge tube out of the crank. Be sure to drill out the center punch on the screwed plug and heat the crank before trying to remove the plug. That other tap that I posted in the last tool pic is a 1/2 X 14 NPT used to draw out the camshaft bushings on the L/S case. Are we having fun yet???
 

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Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,527
2,210
Texas
It's your lucky day. I can fix that for you. It's one of the things I do in my shop.
Sweet... I'll get that casting off to you asap.

Edit #1 Dec 12, 2019
FYI: ol'89r advises that he can fix the case; the hairline crack, clean-up the welds inside as well as re-texture the outside of the case to match the original surface. I had no idea that could be done and was bumming about the the area having been sanded smooth and making the repair obvious. Yes!

#3 is a homemade tool for removing the screwed plug that holds the sludge tube in
What did this begin life as?

#1 & #2 ... I have a tool for the clutch springs.

#4 is a 9/16 X 18 tap used to remove the sludge tube.
So the sludge tube has no bottom? I'm not getting how it backs-out otherwise ... the tap pushes the rod, and pulls the tube as it's cutting threads/screwing in, but unless the rod is against the crank itself (ie; hole in the bottom of the sludge tube) I don't get how it's pushing the tube out?... looks like my noobness is showing. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
 
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Ol'89r

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#3 was a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter ground down to form a screwdriver to fit the slot in the plug. It has to fit tightly. The sludge tube is open on the other end. When you screw the tap in, it pushes against the rod and the rod pushes against the crank and draws the sludge tube out. Be sure to remove the flywheel bolt that holds the sludge tube in. I will send you my address in the Mod forum so you can ship the cases.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,527
2,210
Texas
Update. The TR6C Mystery.

I've got serious reservations that this '67 TR6C is the same bike as the one he bought (or remembers buying) in '69. I asked him (84 year-old previous owner) about the damage on the primary side, assuming it happened sometime when he owned it. He remembers nothing about it. Also, he had mentioned previously that he never had the top-end or any major engine work done on it. Obviously he's confused as this cylinder has been bored .060. I guess that could have been done (damage and top-end) within the bike's first two years, but I kind of doubt it. He bought a '67 in 1969. I'm just not sure if it was THIS '67.

Having owned 9-10 Triumphs over the last 40+ years and memory that isn't great, it very well may be that he's confusing the specific history of his bikes. It's not the end of the world by any stretch, I just don't know the history of the bike like I thought I did.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,527
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Texas
Kinda stuck at the moment... waiting on the clutch hub puller I had to order so I can finish the primary side disassembly. I can't wait to get these cases split and get a look at the crank... fingers crossed that the journals look good and that the sludge tube isn't a huge pain to get out.

After figuring out what all I need (the tap and the slotted socket alone will be close to $50 and I wouldn't trust my smallish vice to secure the crank) to replace the sludge tube, I'm going to find out what Big D Cycle will charge if I bring them the crank. I'm already taking them the jugs, might as well see what they'd charge to do the trap.

Yeah, I know. :$
 

Ol'89r

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I'm sure Big D can do a proper job on your crank. They will be able to mic the journals and they probably have a good crank grinder if it needs it. I have a good crank grinder out here but shipping would be pricey.
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
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Update: here's where I am. Just about time to split the cases, just the pinion gear left.

d34a2994-e042-4541-a2c3-00c8fc838559.jpg


Primary side.

8078bf50-c2e4-4d7e-b433-b135f83f1d76.jpg


I've triple checked that all fasteners are removed ... including the two flat head screws hiding in the deck and the two on the timing side. I've put some heat on it, and applied some 4lb love... not budging. More love required.
 

Okiewan

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Dec 31, 1969
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BTW; modified one of my cheap-o pullers to get the pinion gear off ... saved the $70 for the "special" one.
I was also able to get the intake side cam gear off with the modified one... the exhaust side is going to be tough without the actual tool which I have on the way from another friend (borrow).
 

Okiewan

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Dec 31, 1969
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So it looks like I'm going out of town on Tuesday .... Thought I'd make an attempt to get these cases shipped to '9er tomorrow.

Success! Granted, one of the cams is still in it. If I don't get this stuff out the door I'll lose another couple of weeks getting them shipped. I'll have time tomorrow to get them cleaned-up and packed, but I'm not going to get the puller I need in time (to get the cam ex. side cam gear pulled).

I've dreading the sludge trap thing... freaking horror stories about those things. So after I checked out the journals (caliper says they are the same dia 41mm) and big ends (they look great, lots of clean oil sitting in there too), I decided to see about the dreaded trap cap.

Some heat, a big old screw driver and the biggest cresent wrench I have.... I won't lie, that sucked. Took about 30 minutes, it didn't loosen up until the last couple of threads. I did enjoy memories of arm pump though, so it wasn't all bad.

Oddly enough, very little junk in it... you can see all the way to the end of the tube. If I've got time tomorrow I'm going to take the crank and the cylinders down to Big D, maybe they'll be done with it by the time I get back (honing and checking the crack). Busy guys down there.


Finally.
IMG_0922.jpeg


Sludge trap was actually pretty clean. Either someone was recently in there or it's seen a lot of oil changes.
4dd8d235-ac7c-4fa0-86df-3ef2d2255784.jpg


Journals look good, still going to have them mic'd to be sure.
7dd058e6-e4a6-430d-b974-a1b27df5caa8.jpg
 
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Okiewan

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Dec 31, 1969
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Texas
Finally back from a very long trip and ready to get back after this thing. While I was gone I finally broke down and bought the two remaining "special" tools needed to finish the engine disassembly (cam gear puller / installer & drive sprocket nut socket).

Plans for this week are:
Get the case halves shipped-off and the crank and cylinders down to Big D.
Get the electrics, including the wiring loom removed
Fenders, etc removed
Get the frame cleaned-up, sanded and ready for paint
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,527
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Texas
Update:
Yeah, it's been a while. This whole virus thing put a pause on the project. The economic impact at this point has caused funds to be used elsewhere, so the engine rebuild has stopped for a while.

I did get the head reworked by Ol' 89r ... excellent work of course. Next up is getting the cylinders honed and new pistons/rings.

I hope to be back on this thing soon!
 

RM_guy

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Hey Bob, I didn't see this thread earlier but it looks like a fun projects. I only made it through 2 pages of posts but will finish them up soon. Nice bikes!
 

Rich Rohrich

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I agree, it's time for an update!
 

Rich Rohrich

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89r might be old, but he's still got skills. It looks faster already.
 
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