2 stroke vs 4 stroke, any of you noticed this?

[MikeOK]

I ride at 4 different tracks in my area, and I'm on a '00 426. I'm a mid pack and up over 30 vet. I have noticed that maybe 1 out of 30 bikes is a thumper, and they are usually vets like me. I've also noticed in the last couple years that I rarely see a truly fast rider on a thumper. I know of maybe a couple, but most of the really fast guys are on 2 strokes, and in my area it's generally CR's. In the pro and expert races I can only remember seeing one other 4 stoke and it was a YZ250F (this guy would be fast on a Honda trail 90). These tracks draw from between 50 and 300 bikes too. Have any of you noticed this in your areas? The reason I'm asking is that I'm due for a new ride in one more year, and I'm leaning toward the CR250. To me the weight is the main thing, it's not that I don't like my bike. Thanks in advance...
Mike

 

[Seth_88]

That's the way it is here. I race the 250C and 30+ and I am the only one on a four stroke most of the time. There are some in the 30+ occaisionally, but never in the 250 class. I guess the 426 is preferred by older riders for some reason.

 

[kingriz1]

Ok I am completely new to riding.

However, most people 25 and over who would be riding in a vet class would probably have a few years of riding under their belt. Right?

So with that in mind and the fact that most of them have always rode two strokes and are comfortable on them and the way the power is delivered, and the fact that humans are creatures of habit.

It is still gonna be awhile before they get comfortable with the idea of riding a thumper.

Put the fastest rider on any bike and he will be fast. At least that is the opinion 'round here.

Also if all this is true about two strokes getting the axe, everyone will eventually have to switch. You will just be that much ahead of the curve.

Just my .02.

Sincerely,

Riz

 

[Shaw520]

Ya gotta remember, there have been multiple companys making multiple two strokes for many years, in the past three years there have only been 5 moto-competetive bikes made; (2) YZF's,(2) KTM's, and most recently (1) Honda. It may take several years before the availability of the four stroke become equally popular.

 

[HiG4s]

Originally posted by Shaw520
Ya gotta remember, there have been multiple companys making multiple two strokes for many years, in the past three years there have only been 5 moto-competetive bikes made; (2) YZF's,(2) KTM's, and most recently (1) Honda. It may take several years before the availability of the four stroke become equally popular.

Husky made the TC410/570 for several years and this year adding a TC250 and changing the 410 to a 450. and since 99 there are VOR 400s and 503s. These bikes might not be popular in the US because of the trend toward SX style MX tracks where weight is a bigger factor, but they are MX competitve.

Anyway, there is a young guy (19 or 20) at our local track that is quite good, and very competitive in the 250 A class that rides a YZF426.

 

[Shaw520]

Ah Yes HiG,
I stand corrected, the Husky's and VOR's are definatly moto-competetive

 

[380EXCman]

Uhhh Helloooo....

Don't forget the Bergs.... Around here there is likely to be more Husabergs in a vet class than YZF's. Here though Orange seems to be the color of choice.....

 

[Anssi]

The Finnish over 125 cc class(there isn't a 250 cc class) championship was won by a guy on a 520 SX, and a whole bunch of thumpers were pretty close.

As has been mentioned above, there isn't really a generation of riders that have grown up on thumpers yet. My switch from the YZ250 to the 520 SX was an easy one. While the 520 was in the shop (rocker arm went south after 18 hours of riding) I tried my dad's 380 SX (have ridden it before the thumper, plus had CR5s for over a year) and it was bloody awful.

At my level and size (191cm, 90 kg), my ride will always be a big thumper. Any performance advantage a two-stroke might have is negated by the much harder to use engine.

 

[stormer94]

OR, it could just be that the older guys have more money and just think it would be cool to have one. That's how I got mine :)

Now that I can afford any bike I want, I'm getting to fragile to ride it... ;)

 

[Vic]

It's simple. Older guys are just smarter, that's all.:debil:

 

[IBWFO]

I'll echo Vic's statement. Also, if you've ever ridden a good 4 banger they are easier to ride, more stable and virtually maintinence free. I have a 02 CR 250 and am putting it up for sale because I can't ride the damn thing! It is soooo light and easy to flick around, but not as stable and I'm so used to the 426 that I'm keeping mine (01). The 2 banger is still going to be the bike of choice for the really fast guys because of the weight and the quickness. The 02 CR 250 is state of the art, but I feel pretty confident that the 426 will be a totally "NEW" bike Next year. Anyone want an 02 CR 250?
Regards

 

[slowmo]

What do you emphasize more - having fun riding / racing or theoretically improving your probability for winning?

Last spring, I bought a 250 2-stroke to replace my 00 426 for various reasons related to lighter weight, nimbleness, better handling in wet or sandy conditions, easier starting, easier maintenance, etc. (i.e. basically all of the reasons that we continue to read & discuss on every post related to 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke). Unfortunately, I didn't consider FUN enough and no matter how much I want to love the 250, I can't. Now I'm trying to sell the 250 and this afternoon I'll be riding the 426.

It's easy to get caught up in the ongoing debate of which engine format is best for a specific riding application, track condition, skill level, etc. I've learned the hard way that the answer, for me at least, relates to fun and the 4-stroke beats the 2-stroke in that category every time.

 

[Seth_88]

IBWFO-do you think that the problem was the Honda or it being a 2-stroke? I heard the Yamaha has a very good motor-that's the one I'm thinking about getting.

 

[holeshot]

Originally posted by stormer94

Now that I can afford any bike I want, I'm getting too fragile to ride it... ;)

:) :)

I can barely walk up a flight of stairs without holding the handrail, so I don't know why I think I should be able to ride a dirt bike and do jumps, etc.
If you're a vet rider, then you should be comparing yourself to other vet riders, not to kids who want to do one handed seat grabs.:silly: IMVHO

BTW, Tim Ferry is a really fast guy and he seems to be a bit faster on four strokes (although his factory ride is much lighter than stock).

 

[KXKen]

I've seen a number of very fast riders around here on 4 strokes.

 

[Ramski]

I've just decided to give up on 2 strokes myself. After riding my KX500 for almost a year now, I've realized I'm not in the shape I used to be in. The 500 is a great bike out west here if you can handle it in the tight technical stuff in desert races. There's no other bike I would rather have blasting down a whooped out sand wash. As I get older though, I want a smoother ride. A trail bike that can be occasionaly raced. I am now looking at the new Husky TE250. Hopefully it will be a nice bike.

 

[stormer94]

I've spent some hours on a buddies CR450F and some hours on my 250F. The time on the 450 is not quite as enjoyable, and I can only ride it about 20 minutes and I'm shot. I can ride the 250F for about an hour before I'm shot.

I think the big bike is to much work if your outta shape. I think this is the same with the strokes isn't it? The big bike just works ya. I have to be a lot more careful, and I think the concentration is part of the process, just takes it outta ya.

 

[IBWFO]

I've ridden the 02 YZ and while it doesn't suit me either, the suspension seemed "harsh" on the YZ as compared with the Honda. I wish I could ride the CR because you can really slam the turns and the bike is so manueverable in the air. Not as tiring as the 426, but the 426 is more stable.
If your an int/ex I would stick with the 2 stroke.
Regards

 

[canvet]

Really like my daughters modified wr250f but just love the new '02 cr250 more. Seems I am just a 2 stroke rider. Cr is 14 lbs. lighter has good torque and great power once jetted right. Honda is much easier to ride and lighter than our last 2 stroke 250 Yamaha. Honda has less torque than either Yamaha but still has MORE than enough! We ride mainly slow trails. Maybe in the south-west horse- power is more important but up here, enough is better than too much. Ask Shane Watts if more horsepower makes him faster!!

 

[sfc crash]

hmmm...the fastest guy at our track is OLD (late 30s) and rides a 426! incidently the worst rider at our track is OLD (me) and also rides a 426.:think hmmm.... i guess there's a lesson in that somewhere.

 

[marcusgunby]

Im sorry to reign on the 4 stroke parade but i think the 4 strokes are no more of an advance than electric cars running on power from coal fired power stations.What im saying is the 4 strokes will always be heavy and harder to turn, over complicated/expensive to buy and heres the worst-way too loud-we have gone backwards IMO.Yes the Cr450 is lighter than all the others but a CR250 is as light as a 99 RM125-now thats progress.I rode a 02 Cr125 the other day and it was super light and i could ride for ages due to its lighter weight-i rode a 01 CR250 next and it felt like a tank in comparison.A YZ426 feels like a tank compared to the 250cr.
In future we will have clean running 4 strokes that wont be allowed within 3miles of a house and so it will gather dust in a MX museum-the dino of the year 2006.:mad:

 

[bschoch]

The reason these companies are manufacturing competitive 4-strokes is because EPA standards on 2-strokes will continue to get stricter year by year until 2007. 2007 is the target date and all manufacturers have to comply with the standards by this date.

Yamaha, KTM and Honda are ahead of the game on MX competitive 4-strokes. Are they faster? Who knows...I think it has to do with the rider and their comfort level with the bike.

I agree with the comment that unless you've got a "pro" contract waiting in the wings, ride what's fun and comfortable. For me, it's a YZF.

 

[mxracer724]

Man I hate think about the year 2006. It takes the fun out of my day.:( I'm not looking forward to riding around on practicly electric bikes. Because even the current racing 4 strokes like my 250F do not meet the standards that will go in efect in 2006.:(

 

[CAL]

The ratio of 2 to 4 stoke around here is about 90% to 10%. In our group, I'm the only one who rides a fourstoke. And I get the typical jokes about my bike being a "tractor" and "when you gonna put a hitch on that thing". They're just jealous though. Every time I hit the magic button, and cruise right up a nasty loose hill, or get twice the traction out of a turn, they're humbled a little bit.;) I'm only 23, and I'm not too sure I will ever own a 2 stroke again.

Actually, the fastest rider I've ever seen, was Billywho, on a '99 YZ420F at Dirtweek. I didn't know there were people out there that could ride a 400/426 pinned the entire way around a track! Of course, later he was on a TTR125 smoking everybody too.:eek:

 

[Shaw520]

I've raced two strokes all my life, always thought of 4st's as heavy under powered pigs, till I rode the first YZF, then the 520, I was very impressed my the 'off the bottom' power, and now that there making the 4st as light and competetive, I prefer the low end grunt.