89 KDX200 Headlight. Help & win a cookie: PART II

[DirtyRyan]

If you haven't read the original thread, then I doubt any of the following will make much sense. Much thanks to all those that helped figure out how to wire that bike up for the street legal conversion.
I've got about all the parts together at this point, and figured it was time to move on to phase two of the conversion, where we start actually looking at the whole picture and getting all the questions, concerns, problems etc figured out.

So here we go:

1. I noticed that there isn't a lot of additional length to the existing wires on the bike. What do ya'll figure the best route is to go for extending those wires enough to make the needed connections? I ask because I'm a bit concerned about the additional vibration and abuse that this bike will take compared to other vehicles, where a standard "cut, strip, solder, wrap" job would do. Do you think that a wire job like that would hold up ok on a bike like this?

2. I noticed that the connection terminals on the light switch are unusually tiny. To get an idea how small, check these images out:

I was thinking maybe the best way would be to just cut and strip the appropriate wires, then splice them up the middle...have one section of the splice run through the hole in the connection, then have the other section of splice wrap around the outer portion of the terminal and just solder them in place that way. Does that sound about right, or is there a better way ?

3. Help with tail light. I noticed that the diagram showed three wires coming off the taillight. One of these wires goes to the brake light switch. The hydraulic switch that I have has two wires coming from it. I don't think one of them is a ground because it comes with a little butt connection at the end of both wires.
Is the diagram depicting two wires coming out from the brake light switch, with one going to the taillight, and the other tapping into the yellow power supply wire?
Also, which one of the wires on the tail light assembly goes where? I have a green/white, a brown, and a white coming from the tail lite unit itself.

4. I think the wires on the bike are pretty much all either 14 or 16 gauge. I stripped a few wires down to copper last nite, and found that they were 14 and then had a couple 16. If I have some 10 gauge laying around from some other projects, you think it'd be ok to use that?

Thats it for now. Look forward to hearing from ya'll!

 

[SS109]

1. I noticed that there isn't a lot of additional length to the existing wires on the bike. What do ya'll figure the best route is to go for extending those wires enough to make the needed connections? I ask because I'm a bit concerned about the additional vibration and abuse that this bike will take compared to other vehicles, where a standard "cut, strip, solder, wrap" job would do. Do you think that a wire job like that would hold up ok on a bike like this?

Use bullet type crimp connectors. Simple, easy, and they work. Just use the proper one for the gauge of wire you are using.

2. I noticed that the connection terminals on the light switch are unusually tiny.

I was thinking maybe the best way would be to just cut and strip the appropriate wires, then splice them up the middle...have one section of the splice run through the hole in the connection, then have the other section of splice wrap around the outer portion of the terminal and just solder them in place that way. Does that sound about right, or is there a better way ?

Those are some tiny connections but they will more than likely be fine.

As to what you are describing on what to do, I'm not really following you.

3. Help with tail light. I noticed that the diagram showed three wires coming off the taillight. One of these wires goes to the brake light switch. The hydraulic switch that I have has two wires coming from it. I don't think one of them is a ground because it comes with a little butt connection at the end of both wires.
Is the diagram depicting two wires coming out from the brake light switch, with one going to the taillight, and the other tapping into the yellow power supply wire?
Also, which one of the wires on the tail light assembly goes where? I have a green/white, a brown, and a white coming from the tail lite unit itself.

Run 12 volts to one filament and then repeat with the other (using the wires already on the bike) and see which is brighter. The brightest one is to be used as your brake light regardless of the color of wire. Connect the remaining wire back to your tail light circuit. If there is no difference in brightness then it doesn't matter which goes where. Just hook them up and go!

The diagram does depict an "IN" and "OUT" of the brake switch. All the switch does is complete the hot side of the brake light circuit. In other words, hot in and hot out.

4. I think the wires on the bike are pretty much all either 14 or 16 gauge. I stripped a few wires down to copper last nite, and found that they were 14 and then had a couple 16. If I have some 10 gauge laying around from some other projects, you think it'd be ok to use that?

I would go 14ga minimum on the headlight and go with 16ga for the extra brake light wiring and horn. You could use the 10ga but it isn't necessary (a bit overkill) and will be harder to route on the frame and such.

 

[DirtyRyan]

super awesome! I can't tell you what a help you've been with this whole project. It is very much appreciated. I've got some time scheduled later this week to work on the bike some more, I think that info will help greatly.
To clarify on the second question about the tiny terminal connections:

You have 3 prongs, each very small. Each one of those has a tiny hole in them.
Then you have the wires to connect to each prong. My idea was to take the wire, strip it down to copper, and then split it, making a sort of 'Y' shape. the left part of the Y would run THROUGH the hole in the terminal, while the right part of the Y would be wrapped AROUND the terminal, then those would be soldered into place on each individual terminal. It was my friends idea....I didn't really understand the first time either when he suggested it, but now it makes sense. Leme know if that made any more sense of it or not.

So where exactly does this hydraulic brake switch mount up to? Dumb question I know. Friend of mine seemed to think he knew last nite, but then there was beer involved last nite so I always try to double check when that's the case. Maybe just a picture with the classic, "you are here" arrow or something?

For now I think that's all the questions I have but I'm sure more will arise.

 

[SS109]

Ah, I see what you are saying now. OK, I don't think it is necessary. If you have a plug that came with the headlight switch then I would just use that. If not, sure, go for it.

The brake light switch mounts as a replacement for the rear and/or front master cylinder (MC) banjo bolt(s). Since you are only using the one then I would install it on the rear. You can find the bolt by following the brake hose from the rear caliper to where it bolts to the rear MC. Take the bolt of the MC end of the hose and replace it with the brake light switch. Then wire it as in the diagram.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Ah ok cool, so then it was where we thought it was afterall....good to know. As for the switch, oddly enough it didn't come with any connectors or anything. Just the swithc...oh, and one length of thin black wire as seen here:

I'm not even really sure what that wire is included for. Any idea ? It seems kinda tiny so I could see it running to the connections, but then is it so thin that it can't handle the juice that would go into it if it were used? Idunno much about this stuff so...

 

[reepicheep]

You don't need to do the Y thing, just get as much of the wire through the hole as you can, then solder it on.

Before attaching, put some heat shrink tubing higher up on the wire, so you can slide it over the joint when you are done, and heat it up so it clamps down. That'll provide some strain relief, and hopefully keep the soldered joint from cracking.

I'd also try and put one big heat shrink tube over the whole mess, again to give it more strain relief.

If you want it to be easier to work on, you could always solder on 5" leads on the bench (match the wire colors) then put crimp connectors on the other side. Not necessary, nd that gives you another joint that could fail, but if it's an awkward position that may be easier.

 

[sr5bidder]

+1 on not doing the y thing ush it though solder then snip excess

for the tailight Brown is commonly running light 12v (allways on) the others just set a meter on continuity and leads between green/white and brown green white and white and white and brown you should get a beep from brown to green white and white to green white and nothing between brown and white meaning the green white is ground and white is brake.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Howdy once again...
So I'm finally starting to find bits of time here and there to begin putting this thing together. Started with the horn that you had recommended, and have that mounted and hooked up.
Went ahead and used some 12 gauge wire I had laying around. I don't figure that 12 gauge should cause any complications, lemme know if I'm wrong.
Anyway, Now I'm onto hooking up the headlight. I went ahead and found some of these for connecting the wire to the terminals, and they fit super snug:

Also figured they'd be good for extending wire lengths where needed.
So I'm using the existing red and black wires and plugging them into the headlight. I'm wondering though, as I'm installing this new third wire for the headlight that is gonna run to the light switch....ya think I can use this 12 gauge wire for that connection without issue?

 

[SS109]

You will be fine with 12ga wire. The factory was 14ga (right?) so 12ga is more than capable.

Remember, your low beam must go through the switch as well.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Yeah I didn't think it would be much of an issue to go larger. But I figure you seem to know more about this stuff so I'll ask before I act on any of my thinking. With any luck this will prevent me from turning into a traveling fireball...I have enough things to deal with as it is.
So here's some stuff that's been on my mind lately. Let's see what you think:

1. I was mentioning having to lengthen out those red & yellows that are supposed to lead into the light switch. So here's what I'm wondering about this part of the project.
I have a few choices for lengthening out that wire, and I don't know what's the best way to go. I can:

A) Take the existing 16 gauge reds & yellows, and use those connectors shown above to run them into a 12 gauge wire. This however means I'm gonna be running that 12 gauge wire up to the light switch, and as we saw, they have very tiny terminals. I could always just cut the copper at the end after stripping it, and then just leave as much copper as needed to affix it to the terminals.
So that's one option.

B) I could take the existing reds & yellows and use the above imaged connectors to run that 16 gauge into the smaller gauge wire (smaller than 16, shown above), that came with the light switch itself. This would ensure that the wire was the right size for the terminals, however, it would also mean running something out of a 16 gauge into a smaller gauge, which concerns me a bit.

C) I could just use the same connectors and go get some 16 gauge wire to lengthen the existing 16 gauge with. However, it'd be one more thing to go buy, and it would present pretty much the same thing as option A, in that I would still have to cut some copper at the top to get it to affix to those tiny terminals.

D) I could take out the entire red and yellow wires, and reroute new wiring of an appropriate length. This however would mean having to actually do that...which....I'd really just rather not do unless it's totally needed. I don't think it should be though.

Idunno...your thoughts?

2. Diodes:
When I go to wire those diodes into the system, is there any special covering I should use to keep them safe and secure? I was thinking of just soldering them in place, then heatshrinking them on, or maybe even just using some good old electrical tape, or both. So what would you use to protect them a bit, and where int he system would you wire them in, or does it matter? I figured somewhere just about midway through and away from heat sources should work fine.

3. I was looking at some of these connections. Some of them 'T' off and go two separate ways. For example, looking at the brake light circuit....it looks like it's showing me that it runs into the horn switch AND the yellow power source wire. Are there 'T' connectors or something that I should use for this kind of thing or what? I mean, I'd think something like that would have to exist..I just never recalled having used them or even seen one for that matter.

4. The diagram shows one of the VRs wires running into the black wire that serves as the tail light ground. Is this supposed to actually run INTO that wire, or is it just supposed to ground there instead?

5. For all the extra wiring going into this thing....all this 12 I have laying around should work right? I can't imagine it being an issue, but then I'm not gonna overlook or assume anything when it comes to electrical since electrical seems to be a bit finicky about people needing to obey it's laws.

I think that's enough to keep me occupied for now. There will be more questions I'm sure later, but I think knowing those things should at least get me further into it for now.

 

[reepicheep]

16 gauge wire will handle 13 amps (which would be 150+ watts on a 12 volt system), so no worries there. Use the wire that is easiest to route, connect, and handle. A well joined and routed 16 gauge wire is far better then a clumsily joined and awkwardly routed 12 gauge wire.

Diodes likely wont be hurt by anything cooler then boiling water, so don't duck tape them to your head or exhaust pipe, but other then that, as one of our dear HP reps told me when I worked in the big jet engine factory... "you will die before it will".

 

[SS109]

16 gauge wire will handle 13 amps (which would be 150+ watts on a 12 volt system), so no worries there. Use the wire that is easiest to route, connect, and handle. A well joined and routed 16 gauge wire is far better then a clumsily joined and awkwardly routed 12 gauge wire.

Diodes likely wont be hurt by anything cooler then boiling water, so don't duck tape them to your head or exhaust pipe, but other then that, as one of our dear HP reps told me when I worked in the big jet engine factory... "you will die before it will".

I agree. The 16ga is definately the way to go (IMO) for the very reasons mentioned above.

2. Diodes:
When I go to wire those diodes into the system, is there any special covering I should use to keep them safe and secure? I was thinking of just soldering them in place, then heatshrinking them on, or maybe even just using some good old electrical tape, or both. So what would you use to protect them a bit, and where int he system would you wire them in, or does it matter? I figured somewhere just about midway through and away from heat sources should work fine.

I would run some heatshrink around them just to help protect them from corrosion. Route them in a location that doesn't lay them against the engine and all will be good. EDIT: Just wanted to add to not heat the area immediately around the diode itself, just the ends.

3. I was looking at some of these connections. Some of them 'T' off and go two separate ways. For example, looking at the brake light circuit....it looks like it's showing me that it runs into the horn switch AND the yellow power source wire. Are there 'T' connectors or something that I should use for this kind of thing or what? I mean, I'd think something like that would have to exist..I just never recalled having used them or even seen one for that matter.

No special "T" connectors needed. Just splice the wires together anywhere in that particular section of the circuit by soldering or using connectors. (they can be joined at the connector like the ones you have. Two wires in one connector = "Y" splice)

4. The diagram shows one of the VRs wires running into the black wire that serves as the tail light ground. Is this supposed to actually run INTO that wire, or is it just supposed to ground there instead?

Actually, it can ground anywhere. I just used the tail light circuit for simplicity in doing the diagram.

5. For all the extra wiring going into this thing....all this 12 I have laying around should work right? I can't imagine it being an issue, but then I'm not gonna overlook or assume anything when it comes to electrical since electrical seems to be a bit finicky about people needing to obey it's laws.

You can use the the 12ga but it would be a lot easier to route the wiring with 16ga. BTW, the connectors you have in the pic are meant for 14-16ga wiring so they would not be ideal for 12ga wiring.

Just for reference...

Yellow connectors = 10 or 12ga wiring
Blue = 14 to 16ga wiring
Red - 18 to 22ga wiring.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Can't tell you how much your input is helping here. I'll be wrking on the bike again later today hopefully. I might post sometime later to letchya know how it's coming or with questions or whatever.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Hey I can't recall....on the taillight....is it brown to red, green/white to black, and then white to the brake light switch? I'm sitting here looking at it and I can't remember which goes where.....anybody?

 

[SS109]

Factory wiring: Black with yellow stripe is GROUND (-) *** Red is tail/running light POSITIVE (+)

The brake light wiring can be any color you like. Connect one end to the unused factory wire going to the tail light and the other end to one of the following (+) sources:

YELLOW (+) connect anywhere on Yellow wire before the headlight switch. The brake light will operate whenever the bike is running and the brake pedal pressed.

RED (+) connect near the rear of bike past the diodes. Brake will only work when the light switch is turned on and the brake pedal pressed. If you want the "stealth" setup then this is the one you want.

 

[DirtyRyan]

'm not real sure I follow about that last answer.

Reepicheep had said earlier that:

"for the tailight Brown is commonly running light 12v (allways on) the others just set a meter on continuity and leads between green/white and brown green white and white and white and brown you should get a beep from brown to green white and white to green white and nothing between brown and white meaning the green white is ground and white is brake."

So, if I have this right....I would think that the factory red, would connect to the taillight brown. The Green/White would hook up to the existing factory Black/Yellow wire. Then the White would hook into one of the 2 brake light wires.

Is that much right?

I also get a tad confused about the second brake light switch wire. Am I correct in thinking that the second brake light switch wire should connect into a Y splice with the horn switch wire, and the both of those run into the yellow power source wire?


Next item of question:

The Voltage Regulator. If I understand right, there was no VR on 89 KDX200s. That being the case, there's no real "set place" to mount this thing into the system. I looked around the frame for a bit yesterday trying to figure out where to put it, but I can't seem to think of a satisfactory place to mount it to. As it stands, it seems like I would have to just run a zip-tie through the hole in the middle and affix it to part of the frame, kind of in the area near the spark plug. Any idea's on where you might mount this little bugger? I can't help but think that if I did what I mentioned above that the vibration of the VR against the frame would A) sound like hell, and B) possibly end up damaging the VR. I just can't seem to think of a good place to place the VR. Any suggestions would help.

I know I had some other questions, but that's all that comes to mind now. I'm gonna start in wiring up that second diode into the red wire now. I'll check back after a bit. Hope ya'll are doin well! Thanks for all the help!

 

[reepicheep]

I didn't say that. I don't know if it is wrong or right, I don't have schematics with color codes handy, and I'm otherwise immersed in a fork seal replacement right now (with headaches of it's own...)

 

[DirtyRyan]

oops, sorry reepicheep, I meant to say sr5bidder had said that. Sorry about that. On the upside I figured out a decent little place to mount in that voltage regulator. Wiring that in right now. Hopefully someone will know the answer to the question about the brake light wiring I posted above.
Best of luck with that fork seal replacement man. I'll know who to go to when if I encounter any problems when I get around to doing that later in the fall.

 

[SS109]

So, if I have this right....I would think that the factory red, would connect to the taillight brown. The Green/White would hook up to the existing factory Black/Yellow wire. Then the White would hook into one of the 2 brake light wires.

Is that much right?

Sounds right to me.

I also get a tad confused about the second brake light switch wire. Am I correct in thinking that the second brake light switch wire should connect into a Y splice with the horn switch wire, and the both of those run into the yellow power source wire?

It doesn't have to hook into the horn wire unless you just want to hook it there.

Like I listed above, Yellow wire will make the brake light work whenever the bike is running and the headlight switch will not affect it. If you splice it in to the Red wire (the same one that also feeds the tail light) it will only work when you have the headlights turned on.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Ah ok, that makes sense of things a bit for me. Thanks.

Progress thus far:

So far I've only been able to find short little blocks of time here and thee to actually tackle this project. But, progress is coming along thanks to everyone here. I've got the headlight all wired in, as well as the horn, still hadn't gotten a horn button to wire it into, but I'll probably start shopping around tonite or tomorrow.
Also got the diodes fixed in place where they go, the brake light switch installed (just the switch, not the wiring yet), the voltage regulator is all set.

I think all that remains is the horn switch, the light switch, all the tail light and brake switch wiring, and then putting humpty dumpty back together again!
I've been straying away from the light switch for now...that thing just scares me. The holes.....so tiny.....the wires.....so big. I'm still kinda wondering if I couldn't just take the wire that came with the switch and then connect that wire into the wires that are waiting to receive the switch. I mean, it's kinda a transition from larger gauge to smaller gauge right in the middle of the wire, but it would make wiring them into those teeny tiny holes MUCH easier....I just don't know if it would do damage to the smaller wires or not.

 

[DirtyRyan]

hey guys, soooo I've started hooking humpty dumpty here all back together again...I thought I had the wiring done correctly, but I have no idea right now. I'm calling it quits for the evening but thought Id get whatevers fresh in my mind out here so as not to miss anything. Basically, I wired everything up like the diagram shows...at least I'm 98% certain I did.
Anyway, I put some plastics back on, and go to start it....and it just isn't starting. It sounds like he wants to, but he just won't seem to turn over. At the moment, all I have to show for it is a good sized bump and a few scraps on my chin...ughhh.
So heres a few questions going through my head....

There are basically 3 hoses running from the carb, down towards the ground...and not one of em are hooked up to anything. I don't recall disconnecting any of those, but then just cause I don't remember it doesn't mean I didn't. Are these supposed to be like air intakes into the carb or something or what? I'm a bit confused about those. One is sort clear with a yellow tinge to it, the other two are clear with a sort of redish tinge to them.

Next I should mention that I haven't actually hooked the wires up to the light switch. Or the horn. My thinking on this was that since solder was gonna be involved, and those terminals are so tiny, I woul djust hook the wires together first to see if they wee hooked properly before actually plugging them into those tiny terminals.
At any rate, I seem to get a bit of flicker with two of the three hooked up, and for whatever reason I tried connecting all three together, and that seemed to produce a bit brighter flicker as I tried to fire the bike up.
Couldn't really tell what was happening with the brake lights, since they've got that thick red plastic on em and were only talkin a little flicker right now.

And that, basically is where I'm at right now. I know that info isn't of a whole lot of help, but I figured I might as well start the dialog now while the memory is fresh.

I'm puttin it up for tonite. Lookin forward to hearin from ya'll. Thanks!

 

[reepicheep]

Those are vent lines, and should dangle. The only connected line should be the fuel line that goes between the petcock and the carb. There should also be a hose going from your crank case to your airbox, but that has nothing to do with the carb.

 

[DirtyRyan]

Ok, so the 3 hoses coming from the carb shouldn't be connected to anything. DIdn't think so. Thanks reepicheep!
Now if I can just figure out why it won't start....

I remembered after posting last night that I had used the lighter to heat shrink those diodes on, only after going back and re-reading someones post about how I wasn't supposed to do that...D'oh!
Think that might have something to do with this mess? Idunno...right now it's hard for me to say what the issue is. I was thinking of doing a little walk around on the bike in a short video so ya'll could see what was going on . Maybe try to fire it up a few times so you had an idea what it was doing (or NOT doing more accurately spoken). I can still do this if you think it'd be of help helping me figure this thing out.
I just want it to work :(

 

[reepicheep]

The diode might be able to survive a one shot heat shrinking with a lighter. They are pretty tough.

 

[DirtyRyan]

I guess right now I'm wondering about the 3 light switch wires and the 2 horn wires. Like I said, I haven't actually hooked them into the switches yet (I don't have a horn switch yet...been slackin), cause the terminals are so tiny, I didn't want to hook them up incorrectly and have to go back and redo them.
So looking at that diagram, can anyone tell which wiring connections would produce which results?
I mean, it could be something as simple as I had flooded the engine or or whatever.

Oh...and here's my dumb for the day. That little valve connected to the carb...not the fuel line valve, but the little one with the knob on top that just goes up and down...that is the choke right?