A second wind for the 125 in AMA?

Ryone

Member
Jun 18, 2004
391
0
According to DC at RacerX:

"Wow, just got an interesting phone call from someone at the annual AMA Congress up in Pickerington, Ohio. It appears that there’s a real chance for a “150cc” rule to be introduced for AMA Sports competition that would allow 125cc two-strokes to legally use overbore kits. Stay tuned—that could have a really interesting effect on the local Lites class."

Here's the LINK

EDIT:
After reading further, it looks like DC got another call:

"Okay, got another call from the AMA Congress—the new rule will allow for 125cc motorcycles to be overbored to 144cc (for Mod class only). That one barely passed, and another new rule from the AMA Congress will mandate that all 12-to-15-year-old Schoolboy racing be done on 125cc two-stroke motorcycles—just like they do at Loretta Lynn’s. Interesting stuff! Stay tuned for more."
 

steve125

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 19, 2000
1,252
0
I liked this statement

I know it leaves a few holes but I think in the end it will help struggling families going to the races who have to deal with a 4 stroke blowing up and can now go back to a 2 stroke with a more realistic rebuild bill from their local mechanic.

The Wiseco Rep had the horsepower charts for both bikes and said they are very close when you put a 144 up against a 250 F and the rebuild cost when they go down is much less on the 2 stroke vs the 4 stroke. The KTM representative was very interested in this and I wouldnt be surprised to see a 144 kit available directly from KTM very very soon.


It's a step in the right direction, thats for sure. :cool:
 

mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 24, 2000
4,787
102
steve125 said:
I liked this statement

I know it leaves a few holes but I think in the end it will help struggling families going to the races who have to deal with a 4 stroke blowing up and can now go back to a 2 stroke with a more realistic rebuild bill from their local mechanic.

my neighbors have had a 250f setting in their shed for the last several months because they can't afford to put it back together.
 

Rotaholic

Member
Mar 10, 2004
70
0
If its dead, lets see you race a 250F against a 250 two stroke and see how dead they are!!! CC for CC four strokes are dead!!!
I ride a RMZ450 but you cant deny the power of a two stroke. The have it all over four strokes
 

rodH

Member
Aug 17, 2005
369
0
would they do anything to make the 250 2stroke compete better with the 450 4's? or are they close enough that it doesn't matter??

Ryone said:
According to DC at RacerX:

"Wow, just got an interesting phone call from someone at the annual AMA Congress up in Pickerington, Ohio. It appears that there’s a real chance for a “150cc” rule to be introduced for AMA Sports competition that would allow 125cc two-strokes to legally use overbore kits. Stay tuned—that could have a really interesting effect on the local Lites class."

Here's the LINK

EDIT:
After reading further, it looks like DC got another call:

"Okay, got another call from the AMA Congress—the new rule will allow for 125cc motorcycles to be overbored to 144cc (for Mod class only). That one barely passed, and another new rule from the AMA Congress will mandate that all 12-to-15-year-old Schoolboy racing be done on 125cc two-stroke motorcycles—just like they do at Loretta Lynn’s. Interesting stuff! Stay tuned for more."
 

bclapham

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 5, 2001
4,340
0
Rotaholic said:
lets see you race

unfortunately, not many people race that post on here. Its a shame really, since they might have a bigger appreciation of the sport and how much it costs.

Just like armchair generals and coaches, they seem to know where everyone is going wrong and what they need to change.
 

JustinC

Member
Apr 5, 2005
153
0
Rotaholic said:
If its dead, lets see you race a 250F against a 250 two stroke and see how dead they are!!! CC for CC four strokes are dead!!!
I ride a RMZ450 but you cant deny the power of a two stroke. The have it all over four strokes

last year at in a 250c race here in PA, someone snuck a kx250f in and one with it. he was later disqualified though.
 

ellandoh

dismount art student
~SPONSOR~
Mi. Trail Riders
Aug 29, 2004
2,958
0
JustinC said:
last year at in a 250c race here in PA, someone snuck a kx250f in and one with it. he was later disqualified though.


cough cough(rumor)cough cough
 

DougRoost

~SPONSOR~
May 3, 2001
720
0
This makes lots of sense and I was hoping this would happen now that they renamed the 250 class MX and the 125 class MX Lite. Gets them out of the tricky place of changing displacements to even things out.

Doug
 

ellandoh

dismount art student
~SPONSOR~
Mi. Trail Riders
Aug 29, 2004
2,958
0
cherrypicked the C class........a classic
 

mxer842

~SPONSOR~
Nov 11, 2003
597
0
Tiger said:
This is a chance for a privateer to compete at a reasonable financial level...Thank You AMA!! ;)

Don't everyone get to excited...Andrew Short stated in an interview a few weeks ago that his 250f was almost as fast as the 250 two-stroke he rode in east SX this past year...the 125 is dead, this is just a band-aid.
 

rodH

Member
Aug 17, 2005
369
0
mxer842 said:
Don't everyone get to excited...Andrew Short stated in an interview a few weeks ago that his 250f was almost as fast as the 250 two-stroke he rode in east SX this past year...the 125 is dead, this is just a band-aid.

this isn't uncommon, at some SX tracks a 125cc was "almost" as fast as the 250s back in the day.
 

mxer842

~SPONSOR~
Nov 11, 2003
597
0
rodH said:
this isn't uncommon, at some SX tracks a 125cc was "almost" as fast as the 250s back in the day.

Being one of the handful of people here in Colorado still on a 125 i have made a couple observations.

1.This is the funnest bike in the world to ride.
2.This is the bike is the least fun to race.
3.I can outbrake anyone into a corner and through a corner. Coming out of a corner, fast novices can pull me.
4.Guys that I used to pass and gap in a few turns on a 250f now take a lap or two to get around, once i'm around them i can gap them.
5. Lap times are probably pretty comparable between a 125 and 250f if you aren't in traffic.
6. If you are in traffic, then you either have to take slower lines through the corners, or follow someone slower through the same line ahead of you, since this is the only place you can make up time on a 125, you go a lot slower.
7. The first 50 feet out of a corner is where you can feel a guy on a four-stroke just walking away from you, after that it isn't that bad.
8. The best and perhaps the only way I have found to pass someone of equal skill on a four-stroke is to outbrake them into a corner. You can't pass them through a corner, bescause as soon as you head back down a straighaway they will pull back past you, you have to block their line by getting there first. Consequently, I have found myself making many more "questionable" passes on people than I ever did on my 250f, and many times taken people down in an effort to get around. I'm not a dirty rider, but since i can't pass an equally skilled rider down the straights, it's the only place I can pass.
9. I can't wait for the '06 yz250f to hit showrooms.


Yes, i would say on an open track I probably have about the same lap times as I did on my 250f, maybe even a bit faster, but in a races situation where you likely won't get the holeshot on a 125, the ability to pass all over the course and not just by outbraking someone means that I can move throught the pack faster and have quicker lap times than on the 125 when i have to wait for the right spot to outbrake someone. The 125 is dead for just this reason...and it's doubtful that a 144 will change that for more than a few years, if at all.
 

steve125

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 19, 2000
1,252
0
A 144 done up right will run right with a 250F on the start no problem. The hard part getting around the F's is they are slower in the turns, no doubt about that. So they stall the 125's momentum, then its a drag race and the 125 looses. Once the 125 gets in front, then it can use its speed in the corners to pull away.

IMO if the AMA would have gone to 150cc and pulled the fuel restrictions. The F's would have their hands full with that bike.

I know for a fact 1 rider in my area went to Broome for the Lorettas regional qualifier. He got the holeshot 1 moto on a YZ 144 against a full gate of 250F's. :nod:
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
mxer842 said:
Being one of the handful of people here in Colorado still on a 125 i have made a couple observations.

1.This is the funnest bike in the world to ride.
2.This is the bike is the least fun to race.
3.I can outbrake anyone into a corner and through a corner. Coming out of a corner, fast novices can pull me.
4.Guys that I used to pass and gap in a few turns on a 250f now take a lap or two to get around, once i'm around them i can gap them.
5. Lap times are probably pretty comparable between a 125 and 250f if you aren't in traffic.
6. If you are in traffic, then you either have to take slower lines through the corners, or follow someone slower through the same line ahead of you, since this is the only place you can make up time on a 125, you go a lot slower.
7. The first 50 feet out of a corner is where you can feel a guy on a four-stroke just walking away from you, after that it isn't that bad.
8. The best and perhaps the only way I have found to pass someone of equal skill on a four-stroke is to outbrake them into a corner. You can't pass them through a corner, bescause as soon as you head back down a straighaway they will pull back past you, you have to block their line by getting there first. Consequently, I have found myself making many more "questionable" passes on people than I ever did on my 250f, and many times taken people down in an effort to get around. I'm not a dirty rider, but since i can't pass an equally skilled rider down the straights, it's the only place I can pass.
9. I can't wait for the '06 yz250f to hit showrooms.


Yes, i would say on an open track I probably have about the same lap times as I did on my 250f, maybe even a bit faster, but in a races situation where you likely won't get the holeshot on a 125, the ability to pass all over the course and not just by outbraking someone means that I can move throught the pack faster and have quicker lap times than on the 125 when i have to wait for the right spot to outbrake someone. The 125 is dead for just this reason...and it's doubtful that a 144 will change that for more than a few years, if at all.


I agree 100% with all you wrote, a 125/144 only works against 125s, the 250f is slower in corners(entering and mid corner speed) but on exit they are very fast, that fast that against 250 2 strokes/450 4 strokes you dont feel slow, a 144 will in a few ways be no better as they just dont hook up like a 4 stroke, i think thats one of the more important reasons the 4 stroke wins in racing.

As for build costs, assuming like many you buy a 4 stroke and race a season and it doesnt blow, its cheap racing, going out and buying a 144 kit with head, piston, pvs etc is not making cheap racing people.

Also lets not forget this is all too little too late, in the US you have no KX125, in the UK i doubt there will be a 07, i think the CR 2 strokes will die any year, it will be mainly KTM, Suzukis and Yams.

Sorry but i love the 2 stroke but until they make a 4 stroke 200 vs 125 and 350 vs 250 it wont be a even match.
 

steve125

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Oct 19, 2000
1,252
0
Problem is there are enough racers that have had nothing but problems with the 250F's. I really think this depends on the rider here, the aggressive riders can toast one in no time. And the regular maintainance far exceeds the 2 smoke not only in parts but labor. The fact is most can do the work on a 2 smoke themselves.

4 144 pistons cost the same as 4 Ti valves. Not including the proper head work involved seat machining$ labor ect...down time.

2-3 144 pistons for a racing season I feel would be the norm. Same would go for the 250F rider along with 2 valve jobs. thats 800$ just in valves. Of course slower less agressive riders could cut all that in 1/2.

As far as the hook up?....nothing a little clutch control can't handle.......a 144 is easier to ride than a 125, it just has more power over a wider spread. That good hook up in the slick is what bores the heck out of me when there's traction on the 4 stroke. They pull like their on drugs. :coocoo: Sorry but I like the hit and the wheelie. :cool:

On the Pro level, the 250F's will still be the best choice. But for Joe racer on a budget? The 144 will allow you to race with a fighting chance for the top spot. Yeah, you may have to work a little harder, but you'll end up a much better rider.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom