Angeles, Cleveland, Los Padres and San Bernardino Forest Plans


Apr 13, 2000
Copy of e-mail I rec'd
Subj: Angeles, Cleveland, Los Padres and San Bernardino Forest Plans

I urge everyone to review these maps, and make an effort to compare the
proposed plans (restrictions) with the "Road Inventory" map(s).

Even if you do not reside or recreate in Southern California it is an
opportunity to learn how the government land management is influenced by
settlement agreements and lawsuit resolution requiring future planning
oversight by the litigants. There is much to learn from the presentation of
the plans and the plan revision process.

The first round of public meetings requested "value" and "vision"comments.
The cynical observer questions the value of "value and vision" statements
when the revision plans have not been released to the public? The first round
of meetings may be recorded as public involvement (to honor NEPA) but
offered no opportunity to comment on the unreleased revised forest plans (that, as
you may realize by reading the maps have been under development, and
"oversight," for some time).

This second round of public meetings are to gather comments on the "maps" and
proposed "transportation plan" impacts (even before the other "plans"
have not been released). This is the first opportunity the public has to view a
portion of the revision "plan," and the opportunity should not be

A comparison of each map released (to date) is required to reveal the
complete scope of planned changes and restrictions.

Pay close attention to the existing road system map(s), including the
"Unclassified Roads," indicated in yellow on the maps. These unclassified
roads are existing open routes (some traveled on a regular, weekly,
frequency) that appear to be decommissioned roads on the map. These yellow
lines identify existing visible roads (used by mountain bikes and vehicles
everyday). These roads must be ignored ("roadless," "non-motorized access,"
and "potential unroaded") to implement other (more restrictive) plans.

If your favored recreation spot (hiking trailhead, rock climb, gem collection
site, kite flying spot, dog exercise area, bird watching site, etc.) is
accessed by one of these unclassified roads consider that it will be closed
to vehicles, unless you specifically ask for it to remain open and give a
convincing reason.

inventory map is the best map to use as a baseline for existing conditions,
but it is not complete in the total inventory for preexisting features.
Do not expect the map to include your favorite site or trail.

The alternate plans effectively implement the "closed unless posted open"
goal through comprehensive "area" and "route" designation.

These alternate plans are not completely out of line to indicate areas
where increased habitat protection is warranted, but remember, these plans
reflect the 100% (restrictive) goal position of the (overseeing litigant)
preservation agenda (less the complete closure of mankind from these areas).
These plans are open to public discussion and "compromise." Discussion must
influence why recreation is desired and worth the cost to make it compatible
with the habitat protection goals agreed to in the CBD Lawsuit settlement.

Recreation interests must identify each road, area, and trail we want to
remain open and each trail we want to remain open as designated as OHV legal
and street legal routes. This includes the roads and trails marked as "forest
system roads" and access routes to mining claims and property inholders.
We must identify and state the reason for keeping the road open (mine
access, meadow access, rock climbing access, mountain bike access, kite flying
area access, cross-country skiing access, etc.) and the usage desired (street
legal or OHV).

If you do not understand yet, this Forest Plan Revision impacts much more
than yahoo's in OHV's driving on dirt roads, it will place permanent
restrictions on access to all recreation activity in the forests.

What can you do:

Go to the USFS web site ( ) and
link to the "get involved" web page, and click on the "comment card" for a
.pdf comment sheet.

Fill out the sheet and request to be added to the mailing list.

Make comments regarding the high value of OHV recreation opportunities:

"I value OHV (or your favorite) recreation and the support it provides
for ecologically responsible dispersed camping and sportsman opportunities."
"My vision of the future is an OHV Road and trail system that provides
for ecologically responsible family recreation. My vision is a connected
designated OHV route system that will provide for legal multi-day family
camping. My vision is a network of family accessible campgrounds connected by
designated OHV routes."

Clubs with GPS maps of their favored campsites (mine claims, gem
collecting sites, etc.) and trails are urged to overlay all existing routes and
features on printed versions of the road inventory maps. Send the enhanced maps in
with a request to incorporate the noted features as "open to the public"
areas and a request to assign designated OHV routes to access the desired site.
If possible, make the altered maps available on the web for reproduction and inclusion
with independent comments (and post on the LUN where to find the maps).

Print the road inventory map and draw in (highlight or other method) the
route system and trails you want to remain open. Note on the map anyfeature
that reinforces a reason to maintain the trail. If you cannot print the
website map, use any map you can find to communicate your desired open area
or roads. USFS, AAA, and DeLorme maps cover the areas in lesser detail, and
are better than no map. Print maps off of if you have no
other alternative.

Include any comments about club trail adoption offers, volunteer help
offers, and past volunteer support in the forest. Include the club membership
you represent in your comments. Written responses take precedence, and maps
offer more detail than written descriptions.

Happy Trails!
Ed A. Stevens
[email protected]

From: "DirtFirst!" <[email protected]>

Subject:: four southern California forests
"Angeles, Cleveland, Los Padres and San Bernardino "Forest Plans."
If you use any of the four So Cal. National Forests, I urge you to
look at the info on their "new" forest plan.
The web site is:

We went to round 2 of the Southern California Forest Plan last night.
We attended the Big Bear meeting.

They had a series of maps on the wall that should shock you.
These maps are available on their web site in the data section.
Check out the section: "Station 4 - Road System"

The forest data I looked at last night was San Bernardino NF
but I am sure the situation is much the same with the other 3
forests involved in this latest scheme.

For example: check out these maps for San Bernardino NF
and imagine them one on top of the other: It is shocking, there
will be virtually nothing left open.

Potential Unroaded Area Maps ***

Inventoried Roadless Area Maps (this is the roadless plan)

Non-Motorized Access Area Maps ***

Items with *** are new "surprises" and the FS staff on hand claimed no
knowledge about them. I asked the Head Ranger, "What did the maps do,
walk in and attach themselves to the wall?" Answer = No reply.

If the maps are not bad enough, here's one of the caveats printed on them:
"The Forest Service reserves the right to update, modify,
or replace any or all of this data without notifying users."

If we do not get our input in before the deadline and their filing of
the Notice Of Intent (NOI), we will be swimming up a waterfall not
just upstream from that point onward.



Jun 12, 2000
I posted this on another thread. Thought it might be useful:

For those of you who have ridden the San Bernardino mountains and love it as much as I do; read on...

Our local club (Big Bear Trail Riders ) has a "spin-off" called "Americans for Forest Access" (

Our local strategy is to UNITE everyone we can (e.g. bike riders, horse riders, quad riders, jeepers, indian tribes!, etc.) under a non-motorcyle "brand name" to respond to local trail closures.

The last Forestry trail closure meeting I attended was somewhat upset when a member of an indigenous indian tribe delivered a notice that their constitutional rights would be violated by trail access restrictions to their sacred religous sites. It was great! They're on board with us now.

My point is that localized or even nationalized organizations, that unify common interests among diverse "trail-users" deserve support, even if you don't like jeepers, quaders, whatever. We're just out to stop trail closures, within reason. We'll sort who uses what, when and how...later.

The "battle" needs fighting at several levels by the strongest force we can assemble. Allies can make the difference.

Our "homefront" battle is to respond to the trail closure advocates who commission geologists and biologists reporting endangered plants on our trails. If you have the money, it's easy to do, even though arguably a blatant exploitation of endangered species legislation.

However, if there's no "in kind" reponse, we're screwed. Our challenge is learning the rules of engagement and building a warchest to counter "in kind" what happens in the "trenches".

Not enough comes from interested sponsors and memberships. Some comes from proceeds of club sponsored enduros. More support is needed. If you cherish this riding area, join up.


Apr 13, 2000
Mtngoat- I kind of have alot of things on the table right now but I would like to get up in your area and meet you guys. Go for a ride and then learn more about the program over lunch or something.

I will need a couple of weeks but let me know if your interested


Jun 12, 2000
My e-mail address is under my profile. Let me know when you can make it. BTW, the holcomb and deep creek trails are open and clear of snow. Rode it last weekend and it's great.

Welcome to DRN

No trolls, no cliques, no spam & newb friendly. Do it.

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