Back brake when jumping?

[HajiWasAPunk]

I've always thought that the back brake should be used to bring the bike nose down in the air, though I haven't until recently felt comfortable enough trying that.

However, our instructor told me unequivocally to NOT use the back brake, especially on 4 strokes. He maintains I need to get out over the handle bars more to brink things regular and that back brake technique is no longer used, especially on thumpers. The instructors are hesitant to use words like NEVER or ALWAYS since there are so many circumstances out there, but he was pretty adamant about this, saying you also could stall the bike mid air and have disaster when you hit the ground.

 

[CamDayKX125(4)]

i have seen smokers and thumpers alike use the rear brake in the air(looks cool too!). it doesnt bring the front end down, it (obviously) stalls the rear tire and, unless you lean forward, will land on its rear tire. ive tried it a couple of times and its not to hard to do, but its really bad for your rear rim.(i cracked mine.)

 

[dante]

i have seen smokers and thumpers alike use the rear brake in the air(looks cool too!). it doesnt bring the front end down, it (obviously) stalls the rear tire and, unless you lean forward, will land on its rear tire. ive tried it a couple of times and its not to hard to do, but its really bad for your rear rim.(i cracked mine.)

:bang:

 

[oldguy]

My son does it all the time with his 250F and also uses a quick throttle rev to raise the front end if needed in mid air. The trick is to tap the brake and not lock it up and hold it on. It is a very common move but I would think a difficult one to teach and maybe that is why he was telling you to not do it.
Only once have I seen him stall it in midair doing it and he kept a cool head pop starting as he was landing.

 

[rm_racer]

it doesnt bring the front end down

Actually it does. All the energy from the spinning rear wheel has to go somwhere when the wheel is stopped by the brake. It is transfered to the bike and the front end dips.

 

[acekx250f]

Been doin it on my thumper since day 1 and still works for me. i've only stalld it mid air twice. and on both occasion it bum started on landing although on one the landing was really hard and bottomed out bad.

 

[Mophuka]

you will learn that in any sport you have to take everything that you hear with a grain of salt. One person might say to do something one way and you will always find someone who does the total opposite. Take it all in and do what works best for you.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

Tapping the rear brake in the air to bring the front down is not as necessary with a 4 stroke because the engine braking of a 4 stroke gives you the same effect when you merely let off the gas. It does still work, though.

Regardless of whether you are riding a 2 stroke or 4, you still need to pull the clutch before tapping the rear brake in the air. One reason some people are vehemently against rear brake usage in the air with 4 strokes is that older 4 strokes did not have auto-compression releases and would not bump start upon landing if you do screw up and kill the motor in the air. The first time I did that while jumping my KTM620 resulted in almost getting thrown over the bars on landing because the only way to bump start that bike was with the compression release pulled.

Someone mentioned being bad for the rear rim...I could only see that if you landed with the rear wheel still stopped. Even if/when you stop the rear wheel in the air to get the front down, you should still be back on the gas just prior to landing.

IMHO, everyone should experience killing the motor in the air at least once so they can see just how QUIET it gets flying through the air with no motor! :laugh:

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

IMHO, everyone should experience killing the motor in the air at least once so they can see just how QUIET it gets flying through the air with no motor! :laugh:

lol, I'm guessing that quiet maybe shortly followed by the sound of taps being played!

The guys who teach where we go are usually pretty open about advice. They usually say something like "I recommend not doing xxx unless this or that" or "only under some circumstance" etc. He was solidly against this though?

If you have to bump start the bike upon landing, you must be out of the power for a second right? That sounds like a rough landing.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

*ALOT* rougher on a 4 stroke as compared to a 2 stroke. Picture yourself landing, getting thrown forward and (hopefully only *almost*) over the bars. Just about the time your helmet hit the front fender, the engine fires, comes to life, and your bike now wants to run out from under you.

The only good thing is that it is easier to tie your shoes now that your arms are longer.

 

[High Lord Gomer]

BTW, I actually run my idle a little high so that it is less likely to stall if/when I hit the rear brake in the air.

 

[oldguy]

of course there is always an alternate way to do it

 

[crazy4nitro]

of course there is always an alternate way to do it

I thought that was the new "low altitude" FMX... :bang:


Although I would imaging that there is easier ways to remove the rear fender.... :ohmy:

Nice pic though... :cool:

Crazy

 

[oldguy]

He did land it and got the front tire down went on to get 2nd or 3rd in the moto. Of course after that landing Zoomer gave him a bit more room

 

[crazy4nitro]

He did land it and got the front tire down went on to get 2nd or 3rd in the moto.

:yeehaw: :yeehaw:

 

[Troyboykx125]

If you do use the back break....make sure u time it correctly and dont hit the break too hard, otherwise your front end will come too far down and you'll end up with a sprained foot, some road rash, and a bent subframe and handlebars. :ahhh:

 

[oldguy]

If you do use the back break....make sure u time it correctly and dont hit the break too hard, otherwise your front end will come too far down and you'll end up with a sprained foot, some road rash, and a bent subframe and handlebars. :ahhh:

Almost sounds like the voice of experience :yikes:

 

[soap]

Originally Posted by Troyboykx125
If you do use the back break....make sure u time it correctly and dont hit the break too hard, otherwise your front end will come too far down and you'll end up with a sprained foot, some road rash, and a bent subframe and handlebars.

??????
If u overuse the rear brake, and the front end is to low, just open the throttle and let the engine spin the back tire up. This will cause the front of the bike to come back up. There is nothing wrong at all with using the back brake in the air (except for stalling the bike if u forget to pull in the clutch). But using the back brake regularly has saved me. Cause when u use it more and more on jumps, it becomes second nature. So if u accidently wheelie off a jump, you automatically stomp on the rear brake and it will usually level the bike out.

What ou should never use is the front brake. Because unlike the rear brake where u can gas the bike if u over brake. Nothing will stop the nose from diving if u use the front brake. Trust me, this stuff is all proven through physics, and im at a high enough level in engineering to know this stuff.

I use the rear brake even when i dont need to, just to make the jump seem more fun. Im sure some of u have gone off a jump, slammed the rear brake to almost completely nose dive, and then gas it to bring the back end down for a perfect landing. If not, u guys should try having more fun in the air.

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

Last night at class I got more information on this so I'm posting for the benefit of anyone else who wonders about this.

The instructor (Vince DeVane) conceded that you can bring the brake down by pulling in the clutch and tapping the back brake but he said he considers this an emergency "fix" to a problem. He maintains the fastest way is to get out over the bars on the face of the track so that the bike comes off the jump level and no midair corrections need to be made.

After working on this for over 2 hours last night I found I could make huge differences in the bike by exagerating the position over the bars and could even correct the bike by sticking my head out over the fender after takeoff (not as desirable has doing it up the face). It took a while to get comfortable at the speed necessary to clear a 70 foot table to also stick your head out further but after practicing it I have to agree that the best thing for pure speed is to get it right at takeoff.