chris_1001

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May 11, 2006
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OK, I just got back into dirtbiking. I'm 37 and have respect for getting hurt.

Since its been a wile and I never even in the past had much technique... what I want to do is know the best way to handle tight berms and tight flat turns. Since I ride in the woods and such this is very handy ;).

So any good tips? i want to master this with out the usual and painfull trial and error method.

Thanks,

Chris
 

CaptainObvious

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Two different types of turns...two different techniques.

For berms you want to sit forward on the seat, way forward – like on the tank, sit on the crown of the seat (in a left turn, this would be the right edge of the seat), weigh the outside peg, look through the turn, get the outside elbow up and move the unweighted foot so it’s out by the front axle. Breaking and throttle technique play a large factor for the amount of “slide” you want entering and exiting the turn.

For a flat turn all is the same, except you want to sit more back in the saddle, providing more weight, and therefore traction, to the rear tire. Breaking and throttle should be smooth to avoid abrupt forward/aft weight transfer. However, once the bike is through the apex of the turn, and assuming all is right in the world, you can begin to roll in a lot of throttle and additional counter-steer.
 

Okiewan

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Humm... I guess it's part of the reason I'm slow, but I tend to do the opposite of CO just told you. In berms, I stay more centered and look as far ashead as possible. Flat corners, I concentrate much more on weighting the outside peg and sitting on the tank.
 

robwbright

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Okiewan said:
Humm... I guess it's part of the reason I'm slow, but I tend to do the opposite of CO just told you. In berms, I stay more centered and look as far ashead as possible. Flat corners, I concentrate much more on weighting the outside peg and sitting on the tank.

I'm with Okie on the flat turns - if I don't get forward on the seat I inevitably wash out the front end - especially on the SLICK flat ones.

It's a bit hard to wash out in a berm.
 

CaptainObvious

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OK, I could be wrong, but that doesn't mean that I won’t support my point :)

In a bermed turn, you take advantage of the berm and how it will "hold" you in a turn. Therefore you can rotate (around the vertical axis of the bike) the bike more quickly. This is done with a fair amount of slide. The slide is initiated with trail breaking, followed by tire slip as you accelerate through the apex of the turn. How does one best accomplish this? By unloading the rear tire by moving the weight forward. As you begin to stand the bike up, you assume a more neutral riding position.

In a flat turn my goal is to 1) not fall and make an ass of myself, and 2) maximize traction. Maximum traction at the rear can only happen with a weight biased towards the rear tire. Of course, acceleration in and of itself will bias the weight to the rear tire, but unlike a bermed turn, there isn’t anything to “hold” you in the turn. Slip angle will be determined by power and weight on the outside peg.
 

RM_guy

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Sorry Gary but ya got it backwards...I guess that explains why you can't keep up with me! :p ;)

You want the back to slide and the front to stick on flat turns so you slide forward. In berms the berm holds the front end in place and you move your body rearward to get more traction.

See ya in June!!!:):)
 

CaptainObvious

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CaptainObvious said:
In a flat turn my goal is to 1) not fall and make an ass of myself

Well that explains why the above always weighs so heavy in my turning decisions.
 

chris_1001

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OK, I'm with you on the weight forward flat turns. that makes perfect sense.

On the berms. I was doing a search and was coming accross some points on braking...

If I read it right, brake into the first half of the berm, then roll on the throttle on the way out...?

Now I assume I still want to be shifted forward the whole way through the berm and lean into it as much as possible or a little as possible?
 

chris_1001

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May 11, 2006
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I do look ahead, as hard as that can be sometimes. Helps in most sports (I'm a big skier). Anyway...

So was I on the close with the brake/coast in, power out at 1/2 or 3/4ths way through the berm?
 

robwbright

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chris_1001 said:
So was I on the close with the brake/coast in, power out at 1/2 or 3/4ths way through the berm?

Power out as soon as you can without crashing. That varies GREATLY from rider to rider. ;)

A guy I had never seen before showed up at our local track for practice last Wednesday. It was sick how soon he was on the gas in the corners has to be at least a 1/4 of the turn before I am. Of course, he won the money class Saturday night.

There's a small double (2 feet high and 30 feet long) on the back straight of the track right after a step on/off section. I usually land 15-25 feet past the landing of the double.

At practice, I was in mid-air about to land when a streak of red passed me on the right. The new guy passed me in mid-air and landed a good 40-50 feet past the landing.

Ridiculously fast.
 

Okiewan

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Yup, how soon and how smooth you get on the gas is exactly what you should work on ... also, COMMITTING to the berm, work on carrying as much speed as you can get away with in, then getting on the gas earlier. You need to have momentum.... slow down too much and try to use big power out to make-up for it, will cause the front to come out of the berm.
 
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