Bomb Afganistan Back to the Stone Age?

BRush

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#1
This is making the rounds on the net, so apologies to those who have seen it before. It makes a point that sometimes gets lost in our calls for indiscriminant vengeance:

===================================
Simply passing it on . . .

THIS WAS READ ON THE MORNING RADIO SHOW I LISTEN TO AND I FELT I
SHOULD PASS IT ALONG AS I HAD NEVER REALIZED THE OPPRESSION GOING ON IN
AFGHANISTAN TO THE "ORDINARY" AFGHAN PEOPLE.

This was written by Tamim Ansary, a writer & columnist in San Francisco,
who comes from Afghanistan:

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this
would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with
this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage.
What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing
whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought
about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from
Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never
lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in
New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
But the Taliban and Bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant
psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political
criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you
think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of
Afghanistan", think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this
atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would
exalt if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out
the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some
say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
A few years ago the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.
There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these
widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines; the
farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons
why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
Age.. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it
already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level
their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.
Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut
them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did
all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would
they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan,
only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd
slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled
orphans, they don't move too fast--they don't even have wheelchairs.
But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike
against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually, it would
only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the
people they've been raping all this time.

So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with
true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in
there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do
what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to
kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms
about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand.
What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because
some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin
Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. Because to get any
troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let
us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will
other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're
flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what:
that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why
he did this.

Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really
believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he
figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a
billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's
a billion people with nothing left to lose, and that's even better from
Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the West
would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years
and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for
that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

Tamim Ansary
 
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#2
Wow. I'm nearly speechless after reading this extremely well thought out statement of the conditions over there, and I think the author has a keen insight into the minds of the Taliban and Bin Laden. Is it true? If so, our road to victory is much more dificult than I imagined. Thank you for posting that, BRush. It gives much food for thought.
 

ktmboy

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#3
I heard on the radio today that another thing that is hurting the Afghani people is that they stopped growing poppies (for Heroin) at the request of the U.S. government, and now have no means of raising capital. Is this a true statement?
 
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#4
Okay, "Tamim" is right. We can't attack Afghanistan without hurting innocent Afghanistan's, unless we go in by the ground. And we shouldn't go in by ground, because the rest of the Arab world would be mad.

HOW STUPID AND/OR GULLIBLE ARE SOME OF YOU?? Did you ever think of the alternative. "Okay, you're right. Take shots at our country. Kill us all. Blow us all up. Destroy our way of life. Our infrastructure. And know that some of us are fearful enough that we can do nothing in return." Did you ever think of how self-serving that article is? "Don't attack half-assed, you'll lose. Don't attack full fledged, you'll lose."

Luckily, some -- indeed, most -- Americans still have the brains to see through those chest-thumping, don't shoot the messenger, attempts at saving the asses of the killers. And still, yes, have the belly for war. YES, WAR, you little wussies!

I don't say this lightly, or for bravado, for I've much to fear, and little to gain. I say it because only our strength, and resolve, have saved the world from several would-be dictators, and much death. This is just the latest.

Luckily, many of us will understand that sacrifice -- yes, that means BLOOD -- will save the world for freedom, and spare much blood later.

Come on, folks. THINK
 
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#5
Longtime. - Before I say anything else, please let me say that what happened was indescribable in its impact on all of us, and the pigs that are behind it must pay with their miserable lives.
Don't let your emotions cloud your clear thinking though. These animals have surely already predicted the exact response you have in mind.
I pray GW and his inner circle act wisely and decicively and we don't end up with a never ending **** fight on our hands.
Obee
 

Vic

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#6
Usucka Ben Dover may have perverted delusions of a ' Islam vs. the west ' war, but it's clear that the overwhelming majority of Muslims have no desire to be destroyed by U.S. .
 
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#7
The original post will make you sit back and think... think about the miserable state that Afghanistan is in... think about the women that are being abused every day... think about the children with nothing to eat, no schools or hospitals to go to... The Taliban has overtaken a country in the name of evil and has squandered all the people's rights and then teach them to hate the U.S. for it...

I say, bin Laden aside, we should go in and remove the Taliban just on these principals alone. This guy, Tamim Ansary has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt that we should wage war with the Taliban. Think about how many more people will suffer at the hands of the Taliban if we don't do something about it now. OK some civilians will die but civilians are dyeing right now, theirs and ours.

If we do nothing now it will only get worse and eventually they will want to rule the world with their ways, so we can fight this WAR now or we can let our children, gran, great-grans and so forth deal with the mess when it's too late. I wonder what kind of world this would be if our great-grandfathers and grandfathers didn't have 'the belly' to fight for what they believe in... Freedom shouldn't be an American thing - it should ring throughout the WORLD!!!

God bless .. Earth!!!
 

Offroadr

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#8
Those innocent civilians sure were celebrating on the streets after the attack.
 

WoodsRider

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#9
Off - I believe those were Palestineans that were celebrating.
 

MikeT

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#10
I don't want anyone to lose sight of the fact that everyone in the WTC, Pentagon, and in the planes was innocent. I feel for the innocent children of Afghanistan, but I also feel for the children who were in the day care centers, the people in the WTC, and the hijacked planes. With all this sappy Afghanistan sympathy, don't forget all the people who were going to work and doing their jobs here in our country that day.

The people are responsible for their own government. If the Taliban is that govt. then the people of Afghanistan are responsible for their actions. If the people in that country don't like what they have done, then they should overthrow the govt. Now, in the past week has anyone heard any talk about the people of Afghanistan trying to overthrow the govt.?? I haven't.

If everything in the above post is true, the people there should be revolting. I don't want to hear that they are too repressed or that they can't defend themselves because I don't believe that is true. I seem to remember a small bunch of renegades that were outnumbered, untrained; ill equipped, underfed, and had nearly no infrastructure to speak of. They fought off the most powerful, well-equipped, well trained, country in the world. That's how OUR country got started. Remember??

We need to rid the world of the terrorist threat that comes from the Taliban and other regimes. I don't want to see American soldiers die, but I also don't want to live in fear of the next attack, because if we don't do something it will be worse. If we do something, at least we will be slowing them down and minimizing their destructive actions.


MikeT
 

Mac

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#11
Osama Bin Laden Hates Americans.

There is no changing his mind, you cannot reason with him, he hates Americans.

He will continue to kill Americans, military and civilian as long as he lives.

As terrible as war is, we have no choice.

The Taliban must fall at any cost.
 

MikeT

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#12
Originally posted by Mac
Osama Bin Laden Hates Americans.

There is no changing his mind, you cannot reason with him, he hates Americans.

He will continue to kill Americans, military and civilian as long as he lives.

Correct
 
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#13
After thinking about this statement, here are my thoughts on it:

1."There is no doubt in my mind that these people (Osam and the Taliban) are responsible for the atrocity in New York."- Precisely why we must retaliate with extreme force.
2."But the Taliban are not Afghanistan."- We, as the United States, do not intend to indiscriminately bomb everyone and everything, that would make us no better thean the terrorrists that we seek to destroy. Our military will try to minimize collateral damages, but some innocent lives will inevitably be lost. It is unavoidable in any armed conflict.
3."Some say, why don't the Afghans overthrow the Taliban? The answer is because they are starved, exhausted, hurt...."- There are several million Afghans, and a few thousand Taliban thugs running the country at best. They could take the Taliban out if they wanted to badly enough. We fought for and gained our independence from a vastly superior English army, with only several thousand poorly armed farmers.
4."We come now to the question of bombing Afghan back to the stone age. Trouble is, that's been done. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs." History shows that the US has always gone to extreme expense to rebuild war-torn countries after the war has ended, even if we were not the ones that caused the destruction, such as our rebuilding of Europe after both world wars. Obviously, we would have nothing to gain by bombing rubble anyway.
5."The only way to get to Bin Laden is to go in with ground troops."- I am sure this will be neccessary, and although it will probably mean American lives will be lost as well as Afghan lives, our only other choice is to do nothing. This is not an option that I think any American is going to accept, and it would probably be the worst decision we could make. If we did nothing, we may as well hang up a sign inviting every terrorist wannabe in the world to attack us with impunity, because we won't retaliate.
6."The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first."- Then so be it. I am sure they are not completely innocent when it comes to aiding and supporting terrorists, they have certainly caused plenty of problems for India.
7."He truly believes that Islam could beat the west." This is ridiculous. The vast majority of Muslims in the world do not support terrorism, nor do they believe what Bin Laden did to the U.S. was justifiable in any way.
 

taraker

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#14
Okay, I have been silent on this issue for reasons to overwhelming to list but I think all those who are looking for a Iraq type bombing / War are going to be very disappointed.

Make no mistake about it, terrorism has some new players on the field & they are known as the United States Navy SEALS, Army Special Forces & other elite forces we don't even know about. Everybody is talking `bout Osam and the Taliban, these are just a few of the next victims of terrorism , there are going to be many more of these a**holes wiped from the face of this planet and the sad part is, me & you will probably never see it, hear about it or know about it.

Osam and the Taliban are looking for holy war, they better start looking for a hole to hide in cause ain't nobody gonna show up to fight for them or their little agenda when they just quit answering the phone. These guys are dead, they just don't know it yet and the really cool thing about it is that I don' think we will have all this collateral damage. No, these a**holes are over all by themselves, no fan fare, no martyrdom, no nothing except a quite little party hosted by the US Armed Forces special "wet" units.

What most people don't understand is that we invented gorilla warfare during the American revolution, we are just going back to use some old tactics we haven't need to use in some time, oh well - Yippy Kia Yea *#@
 
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#15
Side note: I have a feeling Pakistan won't need not be defeated, nor even attacked. I think they will see this as an opportunistic time to fix what they've helped do wrong with the Taliban.

As to emotions getting in the way. Nope. You probably didn't notice, but I didn't post anything on a suggested response for several days. I wanted rationality to enter my decision making process. That rational process, yes, sprinkled with some emotion, has led me to believe that much destruction must ensue -- for the best outcome for the long term.