Buy American?

[ktmboy]

While it's true that some American dollars are leaving the U.S. and going to these foreign car companies, it's also true that much of the profits they are making here are being re-invested here.
This whole global economy thing has become confusing to me, and I think many US companies are profiting mightily from it. My .02!

 

[Wraith]

Zenith was bought out by Koreans. But it was after the suits in corporate, up in Ill. sent the plant to Mexico, to fatten their wallets before it was sold off.

 

[rickyd]

I build city buses for a living.. We build buses for alot of different cities here in the USA, what gets me is the county i live in (Alameda) our transit district buys there buses from Canada :| What gets me is ive been there for over 6 years and not once have we built a bus for and out of country customer..
RIck

 

[motometal]

I think our whole economy revolves around manufacturing of goods.  There aren't enough other jobs (non mfg related) to keep a reasonable % of Americans out of the unemployment line (which is also funded by mfg).  At the rate we are going, it could get really ugly within the next few years.

work harder and smarter?  sure, that will help.  but it's a tough battle when the foreigners are willing to work hard AND smart (given the opportunity for education) for pennies per day.

even middle to lower class folks in usa are living in luxury compared to what some of the folks we are competing with consider the "norm"

unions reward mediocre performance with scheduled raises, and the guarantee of rights, so long as some minimal level of performance is achieved

 

[Wraith]

Originally posted by motometal


work harder and smarter?  sure, that will help.  but it's a tough battle when the foreigners are willing to work hard AND smart (given the opportunity for education) for pennies per day.

From where I see it. Not enough people take pride in the work they do. You don't really have to work harder, just put your best into the work, and the finished product will show that, and you will eventually see that in the consumers buying habits. I've seen and heard to many Americans talk about products they make, and say they wouldn't buy it themselves :| There is something wrong there. And it doesn't say a whole lot about their work either. Take pride in what you do, and the product will show it. But then again, the American market is already flooded with foreign products that is made in the USA. That' s why everyone talks about how great the Japanese cars are. Because most are made here in the states by good hard woking, know how to get the job done right Americans. And all of the American made cars are getting put together outside (mostly) of the US. That's what it all boils down to.

 

[motometal]

it could be, that regardless of where the factory actually is, the "foreign" car companies MANAGE their people and equipment better than the "American" car companies.  I would hate to admit that, but it's very possible.

I've also heard "urban legends" that the tolerances are tighter on Hondas and Toyotas, that's why the engines last longer.  No idea if that's true.

 

[Wraith]

Oh yeah, I don't doubt what you say motometal. Like I said before, it's only because they are over here usuing our people. And Ours are over there usuing theirs

 

[Jaybird]

The trend of the last few years, in the auto mfg'ing area, has been to focus on quality.
In the free market, anyone can become rich quick by selling products for less money than their direct competition does, however this lends itself to cutting corners to remain competitive. The corner cutters will not remain rich because we tend to be creatures of habit, and when we purchase a product that shows it's flaws in quality, we tend to steer off of that product in the future....even if the product quality improves, we tend to remember how it was before and stay away from it. We also recommend others to steer clear as well. The answer to that problem is to build with quality and workmanship in mind, and the fruits of that labor will eventually come to reality.

I get the opportunity to see the inside workings of different auto operations. Generally speaking, the Japanese companies tend to not enter into agreements with the UAW and other organizing unions. Amercian auto mfg's are neck deep into the union agreements.

As far as tolerences and quality being better in the Japanese shop, I don't buy that at all. The top sellers of any auto builder are built to rigid specifications and quality control checks. In fact, as I stated above, quality is pretty much the main focus with all of them.
What does seperate the foriegn auto mfg's from one another is the tooling and maintenance.
When a big three auto maker hires a maintenance electrician, for an example, they normally hire directly from the local union halls. They will employ folks who have already gone through a valid apprenticeship program with their original union. The new hires usually are already completely skilled in their area. I've seen maintenance men hired that were general formen or superintendants with their previous employer. Having a skilled maintenance force is where much of the bottom line is created.
Non-union mfg's tend to hire maintenance folks who may not be trained through a union apprecticship program. That's not to say they don't get any good people, they do. But the ratio of highly skilled vs mediocre is quite a bit higher in the non-union shops. (why would a skilled union worker work for $18.50 an hour at Toyota when he can get hired for $30 at Ford?)

When tooling in a production process goes down, the end of profits begin. With a mediocre maintenance force, downtime can be considerably more than if it were being addressed by the higher skilled folks. This is where many of the auto mfg's tend to be miles ahead of the others. (When the Super Duty truck line stops running, Ford loses ~$10-15,000 per MINUTE profit...this profit is AFTER all the bills have been paid....ie. Stockholders money)

I think that most any vehicle we buy in the US is going to have decent quality. The market demands that. The person who bolts up the dash in the union shop will be the same person bolting up the dash in the non-union shop, the difference between the two shops is the maintenance force.

Yes, it costs Ford, GM, Crysler more money to employ the skilled folks that they do, however they tend to be "on-line" more than their competition.
Both ways of doing business seems to be successful. And we never see this situation as the consumers. All we see is sticker price and eventually, the quality. So, don't think that an inflated price of a vehicle is due to better quality or parts, it probably aint so.

All of the above deals with auto makers here at home. The foreign shops that are opening up, like in Mexico, have a whole different set of things to worry about. For one....they have a hard time keeping the quality factor up. I mean, how much effort and skill does a 5 dollar a day person put out? How much ability do they have? They live in a different world and this is reflected in their work. There is good reason why some auto plants in Mexico only export the product to other third world-ish places.

 

[Neil Wig]

Quote from BunduBasher "In our 51st State, Canada, Alliston Ontario"

You know Bundu, that is one of the most asinine and arrogant statements I have ever read on this forum. :|

Why would you post something so blatantly ignorant?

I am Canadian, and damn proud of it.

 

[ktmboy]

I can't really speak for Bundu, but I didn't take his statement as a slam towards Canada. Our economies are so intertwined it just makes it seem as if Canada is really a part of the US more than any other country in the world. :silly:

 

[Neil Wig]

Hey sparky, how well would you folks take it if I were to refer to the US as one of the provinces?

Our countries and people are very different, and that's not a bad thing (from either side).

I think the US political system is much better than ours. Our "leader" isn't elected by the people, and that is a very flawed concept.

I've traveled a lot of the US. It's a beautiful country, and has some great people, HOWEVER, I prefer Canada. I had a job offer in Verginia that came with full sponsership. I declined it.

Later

 

[BunduBasher]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
Quote from BunduBasher "In our 51st State, Canada, Alliston Ontario"

You know Bundu, that is one of the most asinine and arrogant statements I have ever read on this forum. :|

Why would you post something so blatantly ignorant?

I am Canadian, and damn proud of it.

Dang, and I thought Americans were uptight :moon:

I also joke about America being a state of Mexico ....... :p

I'm an ass-anine igrant SOB :confused: ... funny thing is, Canadians speak and write American :laugh: eh !!!

 

[490Dave]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
how well would you folks take it if I were to refer to the US as one of the provinces?

It would be an Honor (assuming no malice intended) and just as much as i would be honored to have any part of Canada a part of the USA.

Bundu's statement was pure "tongue in cheek" OK

 

[Neil Wig]

I know Bundu's comment was tongue in cheek, but it's monday and I'm in a pissy mood.

It irritates me that the US political machine manipulates Canada to suit their mood.

BSE is a fine example. When the first case was found in Canada, the borders SLAMMED shut. This move damn near killed our cattle industry. When the first case was found in the US, the meat was already on the shelves, so the politions decided that BSE wasn't a big deal and that there was no evidence that it could be passed on to humans.

Don't you think it's a little odd that it was a crisis when it was found in Canada, but a mere incovenience when found in the US? Keep in mind, we found our problem (and reported it), before the animal made it to the table.

I won't even dive into the soft wood lumber farce.

 

[BunduBasher]

see what happened, we bought Canadian, and BSE to boot - our boys had better stick to buying American beef :p ;)

 

[Neil Wig]

Bundu, that's just Karma. :p And for future reference, when an animal is obviously sick and stumbling around, it doesn't belong in the processing plant. Shoot, shovel and shut-up. ;)

I find it a little odd that hunters come up from the US to shoot Elk and Mule Deer, when it is known that CWD (cronic wasting, similar to BSE) is in both wild populations.

I guess CWD is OK though, because it already exists in the US, so it can't be a health concern :confused:

These are the little inconsistencies that cause me to shake my head.

If Canada were to join the US, we would be treated like a red haired step child....kinda like Idaho North..... It would be rape, loot, and pillage. There wouldn't be a softwood tree standing, because then it would be seen as a "regional natural resource advantage", not "dumping and unfair trade".

Of course I know Bundu was joking. I enjoy a little banter now and again.

I forget who made the observation "all good humor has some basis in fact".

Later

Neil.

PS - Corn makes good wiskey. Alfalfa makes good beef. :thumb:

 

[gwcrim]

HHHmmm........ Looks like it's time to break out the old South Park movie and attack Canada again. :yeehaw:

 

[Neil Wig]

Well, you can gain full support of your country.....just show Osama playing bingo in Regina. :eek: :confused:

Given our piss poor airport security, and sickening tolerance for suspected terrorist or terrorist support groups, it's a distinct possibility. :flame:

Please be accurate, Regina's kinda close.

 

[Jaybird]

Was Idaho raped, looted, and pillaged?
I musta missed that memo.

 

[Wraith]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
Hey sparky, how well would you folks take it if I were to refer to the US as one of the provinces?



Later

Then I would say
How come we can bear arms, then? :confused:

 

[Neil Wig]

Jay, I didn't say Idaho was raped, looted, and pillaged. I said they were ignored (due to low population density). Ah, nevermind, it's not worth going into. :|


Wraith, Canadians can (and do) bear arms, we just restrict or prohibit the use of large capacity semi-auto assault weapons and hand guns. What's your point? :silly:

 

[XRpredator]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
Jay, I didn't say Idaho was raped, looted, and pillaged. I said they were ignored . . .

I don't mind being ignored, except by the goobers that run our state from down there in Boise :|

 

[Wraith]

Well Neil, when I usually put a :confused: icon, I am usually try to mean it in a funny way. So sorry I wasn't funny for you.
So I guess my point is "now", this thread was titled "Buy American", not "Canada something or other".

 

[Jaybird]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
If Canada were to join the US, we would be treated like a red haired step child....kinda like Idaho North..... It would be rape, loot, and pillage. There wouldn't be a softwood tree standing, because then it would be seen as a "regional natural resource advantage", not "dumping and unfair trade". 

Ah...(smacks forehead) I musta read you wrong....it's much clearer now.

 :(

(I think someone has their leiderhosen in a bunch)