Chain on ebay

[Jaybird]

One man's junk is anothers treasure.
Some can run a $30 chain and be fine. Get good life out of it too.
Others can run a $100 chain and still consider it junk. They are the ones who have a hard time figuring things out.

Tensile strength is really a non-issue. As are other things that chain mfg's use to market their products. See..folks are cluless on what really makes for chain and sprocket longevity, so in an effort to baffle you with BS, they throw advances in metalurgy at you in hopes that you will be searching for the maintenance free answer to their prayers. Many fish bite.

One of the best examples of this is tensile strength. I see that levert says he would look toward tensile strength, elongation properties, hardness and machineability.
Machinability isn't much of an issue today. Even less of an issue is tensile strength and elongation. Hardness would be the only factor that would give you any advance.
You see many chains with tensile strengths of 8-10,0000 lbs. This is overkill as well as being a marketing ploy. A 500cc 2-stroke will only create about 1800lbs of chain pull on a good day, why would one need a chain that has sideplates that can withstand 10,000 lbs?

The hardness of the pins and bushings coupled with protecting their friction surfaces are the keys.

 

[levert]

To clarify some basic metallurgy laws that as far as I know have not changed.
Tensile strength is directly related to hardness which relates directly to wear characteristics, they are all intertwined.

General rule: Tensile S= 500 * Brinell Hardness(8)

It is given that any metal will fatigue after prolonged use,WHY ELSE WOULD YOU INSPECT PARTS IN CRITICAL AREAS>>> airplanes??????

You design a part for a proposed life service.If your part see's X amount of Force hopefully you factor in it will see that load 1000's of times plus unknown shock loads plus a safety factor..
Side plates are not the wearing parts on a chain , the pins and rollers are!
If the metal didn't matter NOT, you wouldn't see the great metals we have and the different types of process used on them to make them more durable.IE Hardening, Nitriding, Shotpeening..........

If you believe all these companies are lying to you then no one on this site will change your mind.
I respectfully disagree on many of your points. I do agree with you 100% that proper chain maintenance is essential on any chain.
I will be that Fish and buy a high quality chain and high quality high precision sprokets.
Off to find Nemo...........

 

[John Harris]

Does anybody but us old guys buy an extra master link with every new chain to carry in the tool pak? Have chains gotten too good for this expense? Even I note that I have not had master link problems in years. How about you other ole "Be Prepared" ex boy scouts?

 

[canyncarvr]

For the basically metallurgically challenged (got no idea).....re:
Tensile S= 500 * Brinell Hardness(8)

Would you 'splain that, please? I get the (I think) the brinell scale #, and that its equivalent is (grade?) 8...maybe What is the 'tensile s' part?

If it is so that hardness goes 'up' in conjunction with or linearly to (maybe not) tensile strength, then tensile strength is certainly a decent guage to use when buying chain, isn't it?

If the that is so, you can't say, 'tensile strength doesn't matter, hardness does.'

Correct?

***edit***
I carry an extra link.

 

[levert]

Usually the relation between Tensile strength and hardness is almost linear.
If you go through google and just type in tensile strength and hardness you can find tons of charts.
So you are right in saying correct!


As Tensile Strength goes up so does its hardness , they are definitely directly related. You can't say tensile strength is not important but hardness is, that is illogical.
Maybe we can have someone who is an active engineer give some current advice on this I'm all ears listening to someone who does this for a living to clarify all the parameters

 

[Jaybird]

Logic....lets leave logic out. :)

The tensile strength listed by the mfg's concerns the sideplates only. There could be pot metal in the other components for all we know...although we are fairly sure that 20 mules and a driver couldn't break the sideplates.

Yes, all mechanical properties of metals relate to one another, but in the instance of choosing roller chain material, I would be concerned with the hardness of the bushing and pin material. Even further, I'd be more concerned with the compression yield factor. Which is kinda, sorta, the opposite of tensile strength.
Tensile stength, btw, is the measure of what force it takes to bring a metal from elastic to plastic (or breakage) state.
The compression yield is important because there is very little surface area that the chain pin actually comes in contact with the bushing, due to the variance between pin ID and bushing OD. This small area must be tough enough to withstand shock load as well as abrasion.
Using a lubricant with an EP(extreme pressure) additive will help the chain withstand both shock load and wear much better than a conventional film type lube. But once the barrier of any sort of lube has been broken, the mechanical properties of the metals are all that you have left. The better the numbers on the pins and bushings are, the less wear you will get in X amount of time as compared to a chain of lesser materials.

IF you can manage to use a lubricant and method that keeps the chains friction area's protected, you can get good service life out of "cheap" chains.

Now, back to the point....
When I talk cheap chain, I am usually reffering to the lesser-cost chains of a given brand...like the standard DID chain as opposed to the higher-dollar super-hard top shelfer DID's.
When we talk Ebay chain, you could have any sort of crap that got turned out in Bumphuzel, Malasia or similar. No way would I trust it to be of performance quality. I would be very leary of the quality control of this chain.
Sloppy tolerances throws everything you know about good chain care out the window. It's a hopeless battle to get good life out of such chain.
But, if you like riding instead of wrenching, and you wouldn't be upset if someone called your bike a "beater", then ebay chain may work out fine.

ALSO....some on you may want to be very cautious when purchasing chain on Ebay... You may want to do a little math before you hit the pay button.
I see where one putz is selling chain and estimating it's length way off. Plus, even his estimated length would leave you coming up short, with a orphan length of chain left over (two full chains and several key chains or Christmas ornaments).
Not much of a bargain on the back end.

 

[canyncarvr]

Makes sense to me.

The finer delineation of 'cheap chain' makes a big difference. I read the earlier post to mean that ANY crap chain would perform OK under proper cleaning/maintenance procedures.

re: 'It's a hopeless battle to get good life out of such chain.'

Now THAT I can completely agree with.

Thanks!

 

[Jaybird]

Originally posted by Jaybird
...If cheap means that the metals used are inferior to the top-shelf chains, then that can be overcome by good maintenance practice.

Originally posted by Jaybird
...If there is a protective barrier at the friction points, it matters not the metal. Only when the protective barrier is gone does the construction material matter. One will wear out faster than the other when neglected. It's all relative to how one approaches care of the chain.

Originally posted by Jaybird
...Some cheap chains will be so due to sloppy tolerneces allowed by the mfg. There is nothing one can do about such cheapness accept to enjoy the next purchase of chains and sprockets they will be making soon.

Funny, I seem to be repeating myself. That's OK though, I can be patient untill all get it.  :)

 

[canyncarvr]

1. 'If cheap means that the metals used are inferior to the top-shelf chains, then that can be overcome by good maintenance practice.'

But then........'It's a hopeless battle to get good life out of such (foreign crap) chain.'

You're overcoming a hopeless battle, then?

I guess it's a matter of picking and choosing words and understanding?

I understand your emphasis on and the importance of chain maintenance. You have gainsaid yourself more'n once, though.

Yes, I understand the delineation between 'top shelf' 'not so good' and 'malaysian crap.' For the purposes of discussion such as this, I think it preferable to consider 'cheap' to mean bottom tier..NOT merely something less than 'top shelf'.

It's a bit more than semantics. Not a whole lot more...but a bit.

Keep on keepin' on! I appreciate your patience. ;)

 

[chrisram]

I have used chains that were used in the food industry to drive machinery, but there is a difference. They are rated for constant loads vs. the variable loads that a motorcycle produces. Tehy were free, but they would develop tight spots very quickly. Just my 2 cents

 

[BRush]

Originally posted by John Harris
Does anybody but us old guys buy an extra master link with every new chain to carry in the tool pak? Have chains gotten too good for this expense? Even I note that I have not had master link problems in years. How about you other ole "Be Prepared" ex boy scouts?

Amen Brother. :thumb:

When you need a master link on the trail, you’re gonna need it bad. I ALWAYS buy an extra and I ALWAYS take it with me. At the NH Classic this year there was a rider who did not do this and was last seen plaintively asking each rider to come a long “Hey man, you got an extra master link?” :whiner:

That said, I’ve never had a problem other than my master link clip being shaved down to paper thinness by my chain guard. I don’t care how good new chains are. I just KNOW that removing the spare master link from my tool pack would lead to catastrophic chain failure on the next ride. You tempt the gods at your peril! :worship: