handywork

Member
Sep 5, 2005
84
0
I thought I`d put this in because it seems to be a grey area about Chinese bikes Vs Japan.I will tell you why and how from my experiences with a Honda 78 model XR75 vs 04 model Zongshen 70cc 4 speed with clutch.These are what I found inferior and superior,lol.
The Zongshen has the following disabilities:
Triple tree is wrong setup.Handle bars are obstructing front ride height.Needs spacer block and longer bolts on head set,but in doing so don`t put to much pressure or force on front landings.It needs to be adjustable to accomodate different height beginner riders,if it`s too tall they will dump it as they pull up.
Decals are not up to scratch and by the looks they are just printed contact.Lucky to stick 12-18 months.
Carb is inferior and missmatched,does not perform anywhere near an Keihin.Probably alright for economy I suppose if you could be bothered,but sucks at performance.
Footpegs are not collapsable.This is a bad thing,has to be rectified.It can cause some pretty bad damage when them pegs dig into the ground or if you lean ,bank hard,correct or prop on berm or fall and cantilever the effect onwards to cause more damage towards the machine or even worse can be the contributing factor to throw you off,SERIOUSLY.This problem really exceptionally sucks if you have limited space too,if you intend packing it.We used a Toyota minibus 8 seater van and it was hell.That extra couple of inches would have saved a lot of work.
Clutch sucks,what can I say,it sucks.There is too much slippage,we are using a manual 4 speed with manual clutch and it cannot take load as we would like,in fact about as far away as Pluto.To explain or examine this,try listening to the delay as you change from 3rd to top gear,lol,sucks doesn`t it?
Throttle controller is crap.Look at the throttle setup.The inferior plastic on the bars does,and did to us,twist too easily and give you left or right turn controlled engine r.p.m. so please be aware or as quick as me and jump on it as it happens or even better now I told you and fix it prior,"NO CHILDREN ACTUALLY HURT OR INJURED DURING THIS COMMERCIAL",got it !!!
Drive chain is made of silly putty.
Tyres are way to soft a compound for anything but soft sand.Clearly are bad choice,lasts as long as a lollipop on hard trails or loss of traction rips em up.
Kick start is substandard operation.Has a very bad kickstart grab,probably related to the clutch,has starter motor and button,that is at least a good thing in it`s favour.Flat batteries??????????
Aircleaner sucks,throw it away,buy a decent pod,to even make it tolerable engine performance let alone the effect it gives to ring blow-by(smokey on choke or normal run).Peice of #@%* But even after that you have no protection box or element housing or protection from "flick up" from the rear wheel so that has to be addressed too.
Front brake,anti squeel shims,annoying at low speed riding or when pushing bike,either not fitted properly or are not developed yet,no progression but the dampenning is not as tuned either on front end so I give up.
As I just said,the front end is nowhere near as refined or can respond or give you positive feedback as even my `ol XR and that`s stock genuine,but still it does for learners.
Engine pipe is routed wrongly.This looks OK and until you actually ride it hard or put some load on the rear.Look at the rear shock too.Too collapsable,folds too fast,soft,whatever,it needs boosting to be comparable.Clashes against exhaust pipe under rear guard,can do damage to pipe or machine as rear wheel spinning at high revolutions going head long come into contact with exhaust pipe = money or injury or both.Again.please examine this so as to avoid any injuries.
Side stand.Not up to the task at all,better off without it as it can be potentially dangerous.The spring is of wrong length or as I suspect the anchor lug is inconsistant in position on frame and that may be due to Quality Control.Also,too mild a steel compound around top flange of stand,bends too easily.
Engine performance,lol,you get what you pay for.They are fine for a learner but lack the ooomph off the blocks for any sort of serious purpose or competition
People generally don`t like them.About as popular as a Lada Niva.Bike shops and dealers,generally won`t serve you.People that have genuine Japanese or European bikes laugh or feel sorry for you.Registered clubs that accept and allow to use their facilities is sparse,don`t buy to ride until you check with the regulations and conditions of your local club or track.
Well I think the old XR wins.If you have anymore real encounter,no bull experiences with these machines please post.Don`t get me wrong,they are a cheap entry beginner machine and in so being,a low cost disposable item they stop you outlaying thousands of dollars on a machine to only find out the kid doesn`t wan`t to ride no more,but they lack refinement.So as a favour to yourself check out these things if you have one,if you are going to buy one take it into consideration what I`ve said first.
 
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TimberPig

Member
Jan 19, 2006
859
1
So in short, you are saying that a good quality used Japanese bike is still a better bike than a new low quality Chinese made one, and a person would be better off to find a used quality bike for the same money as they are going to throw into the disposable one?
 

Patman

Pantless Wonder
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Dec 26, 1999
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That seems to be what he is saying, keeping in mind he is basing it on a 2004 model Chinese bike of undetermined build quality (there are pretty significant differences). If you look at Xtreme's of that vintage vs. today there is a noticable difference and keep in mind there are much nicer China sourced minis available now (2006). While still not a Honda level product they are catching on quite fast, so before blowing off ALL bikes from China do a little research in to the one you might be interested in and make an educated decission based on current products. Unless of course we are to all assume that any bike from China is exactly the same as this one. Sort of like Indian & Harley wanted everyone to believe of everything from Japan not so long ago.
 
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wayfastwilly

Member
Dec 29, 2005
45
0
2005 kikanasi

I bought 2 chinese bikes in july, one kikanasi 70cc crf 50 copy and one west coast dirt bikes 110cc xr 70 copy. both were ok to start, battery went out on the 110 in a month, just pulled it off and kick started it, and the forks were raked out like a chopper, dont see how my 10 yr old rode it, it handeled so badly and the rear spring was so strong i didnt bottem out the bike, i weigh 275lb.Anyway the suspention cuased a terrible crash at the track one day, so i sold it for $500, i only paid $565 shipped, and bought a 2004 kx 65, awsome bike. However, the 70cc bike is sprung for a 70lb child, came with a $90 set of RIDE IND. flame graphics,(wicked looking) a 18mm carb, a 7/8 pipe and great sounding silencer and a e22 race head for $495 shipped. Great deal, but not without problems. The tires are turf tamers, so no bite, the swingarm bolt comes loose constantly, and the cool open air breather came apart about a month before i noticed it and sucked up a handfull of dirt. I should have been checking it better, but it ate up the rings.smoked like a 2 stroke. Anyway, a trail bikes 88cc kit and a set of michilen starcross tires later, this thing is a monster. The carb, pipe, head combo is just right for the 88cc kit, he starts in 2nd gear at the track(auto 4 spd) and carries the front tire for 20ft,( he races the peewee 50 class). My point is, I have $700 in a bike it would take $2000 to copy if you bought name brand. Yes i have to turn wrenches on it regularly and the carb is temp sensative, but he has a bike that runs with the beginner ktm 50cc 2 strokes, wheelie in 3 of 4 gears and can explode a berm at the turn of the throttle. Yea it has some cheap features, but it has it where it counts. My kids are riding bikes now where they wouldnt be if i had to buy 2 name brand bikes at once. Ps. I bought the KX65 with a trashed engine, rebuilt it top to bottem and have a nearly new bike with fresh graphics for only $1200! There are good deals out there if you look hard enough, and i think the kikanasi is one of them. The air filter problem could happen to any of them. The 110 is only fit to ride to the porta potty at the track, or putt in the yard. These bikes are sold by many different sites, they say Dream on the tank sticker, most have yellow, green and purple graphics, and usually sell for $565 shipped. BEWARE THIS BIKE! Good dependable engine, worthless suspension, plastics(fiberglass) and steering angle. I hope this helps somebody. :aj:
 

TimberPig

Member
Jan 19, 2006
859
1
Patman said:
That seems to be what he is saying, keeping in mind he is basing it on a 2004 model Chinese bike of undetermined build quality (there are pretty significant differences). If you look at Xtreme's of that vintage vs. today there is a noticable difference and keep in mind there are much nicer China sourced minis available now (2006). While still not a Honda level product they are catching on quite fast, so before blowing off ALL bikes from China do a little research in to the one you might be interested in and make an educated decission based on current products. Unless of course we are to all assume that any bike from China is exactly the same as this one. Sort of like Indian & Harley wanted everyone to believe of everything from Japan not so long ago.

Don't worry, I'm not in the market for one anyhow. I already know there is a big difference between the higher and lower end clones from China. If I was in the market for a bike in this size, I'd still buy a used Japanese bike, because where I live, the Chinese knockoffs are poorly represented, and I wouldn't be able to get parts. I have dealers for all the Japanese makes, plus KTM, so for me, a good used Japanese bike is a better value simply because of parts availability.
 

OnAnySunday

Big Pig
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 20, 2000
998
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lost in the deserts of NM
Last year i bought one for my stepson.
(he calls it his "CRF110") ha ha!
The label on the crate it came in said "NewStar".
It is a 110cc auto clutch -w- a 1 down 3 up shift pattern.
It was five hundred sixty something with free shipping.
There were a few issues, but overall its a great little bike!
No electric start, but then its only a 110cc bike....why would ya need it?
The chain sucked, and it had 2 masterlinks on it for some odd reason?
The graphics werent much better, but flames arent in vogue anymore anyways are they?
The stock air filter pod is marginal. A elcheapo k&n type that promply got replaced by a uni-pod filter.
Tires arent bad. They give o.k. grip and look like ChengShin's old 755 design. Once they go they'll be replaced with either Pirelli's or good old Dunlops.
The bolts ALL need checked (as it should be done anyways) but there were a few that should not have been that way from the start.
Some of the welds are a bit sloppy, but never too small.
Overall fit and finish.......not too bad!

Plus's are:
Decent plastics, nice seat (better than the one on my BRP), good overall power delivery.
Smooth and seamless, jetted a bit rich but this is high altitude and better rich than too lean anywhos.
It is geared a bit low for as much torque as the engine makes.
This keeps the kiddies from hitting highway speeds, but it is obvious that it could use HIGHER gearing.
(it almost jumps out in 2nd with my fat @$$ on it!!)
The pipe has a GOOD sound! Not loud, but nice and throaty.
The suspention is good for trail/ mild kid abuse work, but is a bit stiff for lighter riders.
This one has folding deep cleated footpegs.
A bit TOO cleated to be honest. Like a meat grinder or something!!!
(better wear those boots man!)
And the disc brakes? Very good! Even with my large posterior on it they had good power, and were very controllable. Not grabby or fadable at all!

Bottom line: Im satisfied and more important my stepson loves it!
He trail rides like me, and im sure if he gets into moto-X it wont fit the bill, but for how and what he rides its very very good.
I thought about buying one of the bigger 200cc versions for my galfriend, but since she aint my galfriend no mo, ferget it! LOL! :laugh: :bang:
 

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bordrshane

Member
Dec 13, 2005
61
0
"OnAnySunday" 500 bucks? I want one. Perfect for my girl. At least thats what I will tell her, its probably more for me. Did it come with that bar combination? Is the picture of it stock? If you can, let me know the name and make so I can get one shipped to my door.
Thanks
Shane
 

OnAnySunday

Big Pig
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 20, 2000
998
3
lost in the deserts of NM
bordrshane said:
"OnAnySunday" 500 bucks? I want one. Perfect for my girl. At least thats what I will tell her, its probably more for me. Did it come with that bar combination? Is the picture of it stock? If you can, let me know the name and make so I can get one shipped to my door.
Thanks
Shane

Well heres the link and i hope im not breaking any codes or rules here by posting it?
http://www.xxx-motorsports.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GM&Category_Code=06
Kason's was the #DB807.
Yes the bike was all stock in that pic. (except for the red Christmas bow on the crossbar!)
Actually i thought the bars were a bit cheesy. Same bend as a 1960's Yamy DT1!
(remember those?)
If you get one, remember to check EVERY SINGLE BOLT on the bike for tightness.
And dont forget to grease the steering stem, wheel, and swingarm bearings as they use virtually NO grease in there.
Then set 'em loose and dont forget to bring your camera!!
For the memories! :ride: :cool:
 

TheJunkMan

Member
Jul 9, 2003
586
0
I recently (about 2 months ago) purchased a chinese knockoff pit bike, now my bike is an upper level bike I was very pleased (and still am I am having very good success racing it too) I race it completely stock I have made no modifications other than replacing the controls and grips. I did also go through the bike like most normal people would when buying a bike out of the crate.

Here is a link to my review (with video) on another forum.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336381

Here is just the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zox9bmIzxCg
 

handywork

Member
Sep 5, 2005
84
0
Hahahaha,
Now we are getting somewhere.The good thing about the front forks though is they can be altered,oil and spring.Power can be obtained from a uni filter pod and some good ol tuning and a die grinder works fine on matching ports to manifolds and is easy work.Clutch can be adjusted.It is superior in ignition to an ol XR by using CDI and can be tuned to kick ass.
 

OnAnySunday

Big Pig
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 20, 2000
998
3
lost in the deserts of NM
Just thought i'd post a little tip for us chinese Honda-clone owners.

I finally decided to regear Kason's 110 as the stock 14/48 gearing left a top speed of about 32mph.
But where to get a sprocket to fit?
Aparently these companys use an assortment of parts other than just older Honda stuff.
This site http://www.jtsprockets.com/ has measurements of almost any sprocket they make for both older & newer models both dirt & street.
The Newstar 110 uses a hub from the current KLX110 or DRZ110 bikes.

Hopefully this will help someone who may be having a hard time finding the right sprocket to regear one of these bikes.
(and the pricing aint too bad either.)

Ride on! :ride:

Here's the old one (48 tooth) and the new one (37).
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/oas500/DCFC0048.jpg
 
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Vic

***** freak.
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May 5, 2000
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You horrible people are slaves to low prices! Have you no conscience?!



:)
 

Jasle

Sponsoring Member
Nov 27, 2001
1,358
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Just an FYI... The new Yamaha 50 electric start bike is made in China. Built for Yamahaz but not by yamaha. The quality of that bike is very high. Just like some of the high end Chinese pit bikes. The low end pit bikes are well, low end. It seems in this market you pretty much get what you pay for.
 

mtk

Member
Jun 9, 2004
1,409
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The difference is, if the Chinese Yamaha has a problem you can take it to any one of their 1,000+ dealers (or however many they have; rest assured it is a lot) and get it fixed or get parts for it.

Not one of the Chinese models can make the same claim.
 

Patman

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Dec 26, 1999
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mtk said:
Not one of the Chinese models can make the same claim.
While we may not have +1000 places I can assure you Pit Viper MX has parts for the bikes we sell. THAT is what we believe will allow us to be different from the sea of also rans that are just out to sell a bike and leave the dealer / customer to fend for themselves. I guarentee we have every single part for our bikes within 50 feet of the computer I am sitting at.
 

DELTA 41

Member
Apr 21, 2006
4
0
Patman said:
While we may not have +1000 places I can assure you Pit Viper MX has parts for the bikes we sell. THAT is what we believe will allow us to be different from the sea of also rans that are just out to sell a bike and leave the dealer / customer to fend for themselves. I guarentee we have every single part for our bikes within 50 feet of the computer I am sitting at.
How 'bout some prices on your site? Those bikes LOOK nice....
 

Patman

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Dec 26, 1999
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We need to do a lot of updating on the site for sure. We've got some REALLY nice professional pics of both bikes now andare workiong on a complete parts database. Final pricing on the bikes is set by our dealers so that they can be competative in their market. We have MSRP's of $2,199 for the MX125 and $3,199 for the Pro so expect something in that area. Service Honda is our Internet distributor.
 

motometal

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Sep 3, 2001
2,682
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regarding the cheapest of these bikes, I find the prices amazing. If you can buy a bike for $600, common sense says that there probably isn't more than around a couple hundred bucks in actual manufacturing costs for that bike. The are little bikes, but still have many parts. Regardless of quality, you still have a lot of casting, forging, machining, painting, anodizing, heat treat, plating, etc. But then of course, labor cost is almost nil.
 

mdkuder

Who me?
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Feb 4, 2001
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I spent $1600 on the bike I have and spent at least 20 plus hours repairing/re-engineering it before I could ride it. So add my O.T. rate, plus miscellaneous parts that needed replaced and it actually cost me approx. $2750!
 

Patman

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motometal said:
regarding the cheapest of these bikes, I find the prices amazing. If you can buy a bike for $600, common sense says that there probably isn't more than around a couple hundred bucks in actual manufacturing costs for that bike. The are little bikes, but still have many parts. Regardless of quality, you still have a lot of casting, forging, machining, painting, anodizing, heat treat, plating, etc. But then of course, labor cost is almost nil.
DING DING DING! As an added bonus there are many different levels of quality available for each of those pieces. So if you take all of the cheapest pieces you can get and throw them together you get a mini, but only a mini that might look VERY similar to many others. The flip side is that there really are pieces available to build a very good quality mini as well but of course they cost quite a bit more and the labor costs from the factory that puts them together is typically a bit more as well but not a huge difference.

It really is a matter of you get what you pay for!

mdkuder bought on of the better minis at that price point and still had to do some stuff to make it "right", heck it's even that way with a Honda LOL! :)
 

gwcrim

~SPONSOR~
Oct 3, 2002
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Several years ago, I bought my boy a PW80 clone manufactured by Jianshe. So far, everything I've replaced has been with Yamaha parts (except plastic body parts) and they were identical (quality wise) to the part that broke. As I was researching the bike, I read that Jianshe makes the PW80 for Yamaha. So far as I can tell, it seems to be the case. The bike still runs well and is now used when friends come over to ride. It's had a hard life and has held up well.

The purchase price was only a couple hundred less than a real PW80. So the money I saved paid for a new helmet and boots.
 

89FOXBODY

Member
Oct 1, 2006
10
0
I Bought A 110cc Dream Pit Bike For My Son. He Loves It. I Do Have To Say Suspention Stinks. I Bought It Used And The Front Left Fork Is Bent Any Idea Where I Can Get Another One?
 

Patman

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Dec 26, 1999
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Conventional or inverted fork? I picture would be REALLY helpful.
 
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