Clutch drag; defies logic.

[Fark]

OK 1997 RM 125 POS, clutch drug from day 1.  Playing with ajustment does nothing.  Even if you preload the cable the clutch still won't fully disengage, then and now.

First thing I did was play with the cable.  Then, I filed down the outer basket (notches farily deep).  While I had it apart, I measure springs and fibers. They all fell within spec, except the steel plates which I didn't measure since I didn't have glass handy.  None were blue anyway.  So when I had it apart the first time, I broke the inner hub since I didn't have the right tool.  Got another inner basket and tightened it with a friend's impact gun. 

No good.  So I order up a PE billet outer basket.  Armed with my own compressor (this time I didn't have to load the bike up apart and take it to my freinds!) I give it a shot. 

No good.  Take apart the perch and find the brass is worn badly so I get a new perch and lever.

No good.  I take it apart again and find 3 steel plates burned moderatly blue.  I measure the springs and fibers again and they are OK.  I just picked up new fibers and steels (don't feel like making 2 trips), dipped them in ATF and just put them in. 

Still no good.  I fiddled with the cable and it still drags so bad that I can't put the bike in nuetral from first.  Again, no amount of adjustment will release the plates.  It's acting like theres in an extra pair of plates in there (7 steels, 8 fibers had to reuse one old fiber disc).

So all thats left is a new cable or perhaps the pawl in the cover that moves the pressure plate.  Or is there something funky about the 97 RM that I'm not aware of?

 

[john stu]

many atf has a swelling efect on your fibers?

 

[Rcannon]

Your new perch and lever, are they stock?  I have noticed some of the aftermarket ones do not pull as much cable as the stock models.

 

[A-RustyDemon]

Did you inspect the push rod.. check it's length. What about the push piece bearing? It could be bad (flat spots on needles) changing it's thickness or maybe you need to add a shim between the bearing and the push piece. Or it could be the cable is stretched beyond it's limit. Curious... what are you doing when the clutch drags.. pushing it.. starting it in gear.. riding?

 

[01RM125]

Fark said " Again, no amount of adjustment will release the plates", so probably not the perch. You said you replaced the basket, but what about the hub. When I got my 01 RM last fall (my first dirt bike), the clutch drug bad. I thought it probably needed adjustment (remember 1st dirt), because once under way it worked fine. Got worse so I opened it up. Very notched hub and basket. I have filed both (filed the basket much more than is probably safe). Worked great for about 2 months, now drags again. I am saving for new basket and hub (probably Hinson). If you want to see my basket and hub (not sure that sound rightJ), look here http://www.bordentools.com/Chris/clutch.jpg

Sorry I didn't see before that you DID replace the HUB. Now I am stumped. I tried to delete this post (as I just realized it's worthless) but when I try it says I am not logged on (I am) not a member (I am)...

 

[Vic]

Seems like all RMs do this. I have no answer, except to say that it may be a hydraulic phenomenon resulting from the design. I really don't understand why this would be the case, I'm just offering it as a possibility.

 

[Moto Squid]

My best guess is your actuating arm that moves that push rod is funky. Do you have one more plate in there as stock? When I went to EBC's they give you an extra plate and you have to use it, otherwise there isn't enough plate thickness for the outer hub to have enough pressure. Mine dragged after putting the ebc's in until I wore them in a bit...

lol, I just remembered a quote from a MX mag about clutch manintence, it went something like "and if all that stuff doesn't fix the clutch, buy a new bike" ;)

 

[Rcannon]

Fark, not to second guess your mecanical abilities, accidents can happen.

 

When you put your new hub in, did you get all the washers and such put back EXACTLY where they came from. The reason I ask is this. On my YZ 250 I changed the basket. There were two washers in the area..thick and thin. I could not remember which way they went back together.I guessed and ended up with a clutch that was very stiff and dragged like crazy, Reversing the washers fixed it.

 

[los36]

Alright guys, this is what I've found to be the key to the RM clutch.....

I tried replacing the basket, springs and using EBC plates, with no results. Well, one day on eBay I found a set of fibers for an RM for about $40. They were made by "Factory Concepts"(FC). I had them sitting around for a while before I tried them out. BUT, I've been running the FC fibers with used EBC steel driven for about 3 months and WOW! The clutch is so smooth that I can't believe I'm on an RM! It even engages enough to start the bike in gear and not have to worry about stalling when using the brake on jumps.

The difference between these plates and the EBC, stockers was the actual material. The FC plate material seemed really hard. It looks like the material on a brake pad. I'm sure that they are not Kevlar based and they are also not cork based....so I'm not sure what they're made out of, but it works!

Now, of course I can't find that brand anymore. I've been searching everywhere and I can't find them. I did find out that FC is best know for their T-shirts, so hopefully they haven't given up on making hard parts. If anyone knows where I can find them, let me know and try them yourself.

 

[Fark]

Rcannon: Perch and lever are not stock. It appeared there was a CR type perch on there before. Like someone pointed out, no amount of preload on the cable will disengage the clutch. I beleive there is only one washer behind the basket according to the exploded diagram. I'm going to check it today. Thanks!

Acrustydemon: I haven't ridden the bike with no components yet, just tried starting it in gear a few times. It drags just bad enough that I can't idle without being in neutral, and just bad enough that as I come to a stop I can't put it in nuetral without killing the bike. Very annoying. As for measuring the arm, I don't have a spec to compare to.. And since I put major tension on the cable one time I don't think it's the arm. Now the bearing you speak of is next on my list... thanks.

I'm using stock suzuki parts. And get this. I got one fiber plate a few months ago, and the ones I got the other night are a different part number :think: I wonder if there is some dealer incompetence at work here? My manual doesn't list a part number for new clutch plates. What a load of crap.

 

[Fark]

John stu, hopefully that's not true. :) Who wants to buy more plates? Not me!

 

[Fark]

Tore it down aside the manual and everything was in place. Release bearing looked good, no cracks in the rack and pawl.

Gave all the components a bath in 10w40 and button it back up. No dice. We need a guru in here.

 

[KXTodd]

I just went through the same thing on my KX, replaced:Basket, Inner hub, pressure plate, steels, fibers and even the cable and it wouldn't disengage. After taking taking it apart and back together at least 10 times I gave up and let the shop check it out. They replaced the stuff I didn't : the sleeve and bearings the basket rides on and the washers and walla! It worked. Thought I was going to go crazy trying to figure it out.

 

[muscle]

I hope someone here has a solution for the RM clutch as my 98 needs help on this too. New cable, perch, lever, basket, steels and fibers. Its like the ratio of the push rod isnt quite enough or the push rod needs to be a little longer???

I'm so sick of this clutch that I'm thinking of getting rid of an otherwise excellant bike!

 

[Faded]

On my '98 CR (4yrs old) it helped when I replaced the rod. Your rod is only like $7, I would seriously consider replacing this item because they do wear out.

 

[los36]

I believe that RM's didn't use pushrods to actuate the clutch until 2001. Before that, the actuator was on the clutch cover.

 

[Faded]

Item 13 shown here.

 

[muscle]

Originally posted by los36
I believe that RM's didn't use pushrods to actuate the clutch until 2001. Before that, the actuator was on the clutch cover.

Believe your wrong. My 98 consists ofthree pieces: rod, push piece, bearing. Probably the exact same as Faded's '97. I guess Ill be checking these parts next. :o

 

[Fark]

Interesting.. there is no rod inside my bike. That diagram is wrong, or I have the year of my bike mistaken. I got my manual from EBAY and it's for a 97 (though the only indication of the year would be the copyright which is 96. So I believe the rod isn't utilized until later on.)

I should note that 97s use a rack and pinion setup.

Well I guess I'll try ordering the bearings and washers. If that fails I'll go with the rack. More feedback would be helpful, but that goes without saying.

 

[los36]

I stand corrected. Must have gone to the pushrod in 98.

 

[Fark]

THIS is the correct drawing. I don't think bike bandit did their homework and threw both schematics in there for all late model RMs.

 

[john stu]

i would sheck that manuel just because its copy writed in 96 doesn't mean it for a 97 bike

 

[muscle]

Yes DEFINATELY DO NOT TRUST Bike Bandits info. I have seen many descrepancies there myself. A local dealer can easily pull it up on microfische or buy a shop manual for your bike from the manufacturer. (expensive but worth it)

 

[Fark]

I can't trust dealers either. Two different dealers gave me 2 different clutch plates on this occasion.

 

[Fark]

Well, here's the deal. It's been completely disassembled again, no luck. So a very knowlegable guy at the dealer went thru possibilities with me. This is the first time I've ever been able to intelligently communicate with these guys.

He was an ex-mechanic now in the parts dept, sheesh, what a great idea.

Anyway he suggested to check for play in the linkage, and check all those little pieces closely. What sucks is the service manual doesn't list measurable service limits. So I really have no choice but to throw more money at it. The rack and pinion all seem to have no excessive slop.

So I tried my last ditch effort and put a washer behind the throwout bearing.

Success.

However the cable needs considerable preload. I'm about to tear it apart because I wanted to put a few hours on it and check the plates for slippage. I had one instance of slippage when I was fiddling with the cable. Hopefully it wasn't enough to trash the plates.

So, even the the pressure plate isn't blue or look abused, I've decided to give that a shot and order one up, if that doesn't work, I'll try that bearing, though I doubt it could be that is it is bathed in oil all the time. Doesn't look abused but I can't tell if the rollers have been worn down.