Decision Time

[Tony Eeds]

Well, I went shopping today for a replacement for my Suburban that was stolen.

#1 - Lateral move to a Chevy 2003 1500 4x4 LSE Surburban just like my other truck. Great truck, loaded with goodies. It would have buckets in the near rear so the people capacity is effectively 6.

#2 - GMC Crew Cab Short Bed 2500 4x4 Duramax Diesel with the Allison transmission. This one is on the lot and will be discounted somewhat because they tore up a door (since fixed) on the lot.
It has the LSE interior package as well so the trucks are very similar except for the bed vs. enclosed area in the sub.

Thoughts ....
I loved the ride of the Suburban.
I drive 45000 miles per year.
I plan on getting a 7x14x6'6" trailer to haul bikes.
It felt like the Suburban was pulling a trailer when I had it back there and I suspect the only way that I would know I had a load behind the pickup would be by looking in the mirror.
Re diesels ... Audra said they will not put them in the Suburban anytime soon as they can't fill the demand now in the pickups.
The pickup would be 5~6K less $$$$.

Thoughts????
Anybody with experience in the Duramax?

 

[rickyd]

I would reccomend the Truck w/the Duramax if you drive 45k miles a year..

 

[KenR]

Definitely the Duramax, but I'm biased...I have one, a 2002 in the same configuration you described (4x4 CC SB). I love the truck. Ours has 51,000 miles on it and it has had zero problems. We regularly pull a 8-1/2' X 20' enclosed trailer at 75 mph and get 12-15 mpg, 15-19 mpg with no trailer, empty.

The only thing we did to ours was ditch the pizza cutter tires and mount up some 285 BFG All Terrains on some new wheels. The downside is the mileage dropped by about 10%, but the truck sure looks better.

This is the first truck I've owned that I can drive 500 miles straight, with one brief stop for fuel, and not be tired and stiff from the trip. They ride wonderfully. I have two boys, 11 and 14 who have plenty of room in the back seats.

The truck will give you the option of throwing a bike or two in the bed for the times you don't need all the room of the trailer.

We too considered the Suburban but really wanted the advantages of the diesel and a pickup bed.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[Zerotact]

Diesel all the way!!! With that many miles driven, you'll enjoy the better gas mileage, and smooth power of the diesel.

 

[Patman]

Oil burner Tony! More maintenance but longer life and better mileage.

 

[KenR]

The only additional maintenance over a gasser that I can think of is the fuel filter changes every 15,000 miles. Come to think of it, I change my gas filters about that often as well.

Of course there is the ever present urge to juice these things up with chips, exhaust systems, etc. The old more money=more power=more fun!! Ours is stock in the performance department by the way.

 

[Patman]

Additional maintenance expsnses:
-Fuel filter change is more of a must item on diesels.
-10 quarts of oil at change time on the Dmax (still less than my 17 quarts though)
-Larger capacity cooling system on HD truck than his prevous 1/2 ton.
-HD tires are significantly more expensive then the same light duty tire.
-Typically wheel bearings require more frequent greasing on the HD trucks than the 1/2 tons.
-Brake componants are higher on the HD truck than the 1/2 ton.
-When a diresel goes down it almost always costs quite a bit more for out of pocket repairs.

Since Tony drives so much these are things that really matter to him. The longer life and better mileage are on the plus side but when the vehicle is down for service more often and at a high cost it may not work best for him.

 

[Tony Eeds]

Well ... although I haven't got the deal with the valet service cleaned up, based on everything I am reading the Diesel seems like to odds on favorite.

Since I like to keep my vehicles at least 200K and sometimes 250K, that means the pickup should be good for 5 good years!

Thanks for all the great input. Keep the maintenance info coming. These aren't anything like the diesels in the M60A1's that I used to work on.

Tony

 

[Patman]

Well consider some anti-gel addative as manditory for when it gets cold as maintenance.

See if they will let ya' check out the owners manual for required service on the Dmax Tony. It might give you a good idea of what you'll have to deal with to keep the warranty in effect and how it might impact your use of the vehicle. Also verify how many or even if the dealer or whatever dealer you'll use for service have technicians that are certified to actually work on the engine and transmission. I know that when I was looking not all dealerships were created equal in that respect.

 

[KenR]

Good advice on the certified dealer. When the Duramax was introduced GM wouldn't even ship one to a dealer that hadn't sent a couple of techs through their program. I'd imagine most dealers are certified by now.

Forgot about the 10 quart oil change. Patman, you must be driving a Cummins!

As far as brakes, yes the components will cost more to replace, but I've never gotten as much life out of a set of brakes as I have on the 2500HD. I'm over 50k miles and have over 50% of my brake pads left. These brakes are huge - I think that contributes to their long life.

I can also tell you, after owning several 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks over the years, that, other than the oil changes, this truck has been the least expensive to operate and maintain of the bunch. We also keep our trucks for well over 200,000 miles (I have a '72 Chevy that's got 530,000 miles).

Here's what the manual says about maintenance:

Every-
5k miles - oil/filter change, chassis lubrication, tire rotation, CV joint check, front/rear axle fluid level check

10k miles - passenger compartment air filter replacement if so equipped (I think GM dropped the filter in 03)

15k miles - Fuel filter replacement, sheilds and underhood insulation check, engine cooling fan check, air intake system check

25k miles - Automatic transmission service, fuel cap replacement if driving in dusty conditions

50k miles - Transfer case fluid change

60k miles - Engine accessory drive belt inspection

150k miles - Cooling system service

This is all based on short trip/city intervals. Long trip/highway intervals are greater.

For a lot of great information about the Duramax, check out this forum:

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

 

[Jaybird]

Tony, you have got to start thinking FORD!

'94 F-250 7.3 Turbo Diesel
Smiled last year when it rolled past 1/4 million miles.

Man like you would look good in a KingRanch F-250 6.0 PowerStroke

 

[Tony Eeds]

:| JB :laugh:

I have never had very good luck with Fords. It really boils down to personal preference and more likely what your daddy drove. For some wierd reason, almost every Ford I have been around has been a problem.

I am going to get an 8N though, if I ever find a place that needs a bush hog.

I have decided on going with the truck. How all I have to do is get valet boy to agree that I don't need to sue him.

We do agree on the mileage though ... at 45K a year and the fact that I keep vehicles between 8~10 years, it will have seen a bit of Texas before it retires to be a Home Depot runner.

Hopefully it will have been to 10 DirtWeeks, Moab, maybe Baja, Canada ....

Tony

 

[Patman]

Jaybird I'll have that on my 2000 in about 5 more years! :)

BTW RUN AWAY from the 6.0 Powerstroke! I hear there are some teething pains still. Not that it won't get worked out but I'm not in to buying a beta version of anything for $30K and up. :confused:

 

[Neil Wig]

Regarding the Ford/GM debate, let me throw in my 0.02.
I am currently driving a 2003 F350 Ex. Cab, LB, Deisel.
I have driven many of the GM DuraMax 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x4s.

If you are less than 6'2" you will very likely find the GM MUCH MORE comfortable to drive. Further, I like the GM ride and interior better than Ford. GM will have power hubs, the ford may not. GM has perfected the power hub option, so I don't see any advantage in having to lock hubs manually. Ford may have power hubs, the truck I have now does not. GM will usually have more base line extras. Ford will list them all as options. This is obvious when you get rental vehicles. If you can strip them down, they do. There is a limit as to how far the GM can be stripped.
The ford seats are like a ballpark bench, or church pew. I just drove the Ford 500 km, and find it very uncomfortable to drive. If you have legs like a geraff, you may like the ford better.
As far as power goes, the DuraMax will eat this ford alive....no competition. The ford may have better pulling power, I haven't run a trailer behind either. Milage on the Ford is poor, when travelling at 140 km/hr. About 11 miles/imperial gallon, or 9 miles/US gallon.

 

[hp500efi]

Originally posted by Neil Wig
Regarding the Ford/GM debate, let me throw in my 0.02.
I am currently driving a 2003 F350 Ex. Cab, LB, Deisel.
I have driven many of the GM DuraMax 3/4 ton and 1 ton 4x4s.

If you are less than 6'2" you will very likely find the GM MUCH MORE comfortable to drive. Further, I like the GM ride and interior better than Ford. GM will have power hubs, the ford may not. GM has perfected the power hub option, so I don't see any advantage in having to lock hubs manually. Ford may have power hubs, the truck I have now does not. GM will usually have more base line extras. Ford will list them all as options. This is obvious when you get rental vehicles. If you can strip them down, they do. There is a limit as to how far the GM can be stripped.
The ford seats are like a ballpark bench, or church pew. I just drove the Ford 500 km, and find it very uncomfortable to drive. If you have legs like a geraff, you may like the ford better.
As far as power goes, the DuraMax will eat this ford alive....no competition. The ford may have better pulling power, I haven't run a trailer behind either. Milage on the Ford is poor, when travelling at 140 km/hr. About 11 miles/imperial gallon, or 9 miles/US gallon.

Must be a Canada thing because my results on my 02 F250 PSD is just the opposite as what you mentioned. The only credit I will give to the GM is the comfort level. The GM vehicle is a better ride for those that are picky with comfort. This is my first Ford and I will buy another before the Duramax. Once the Duramax has recorded some years of experience, then maybe I will look into them.

 

[gasgasman]

.........Excursion with the 6.0L. Now we're talking!

 

[Patman]

Yo GGMan! Are the new 6.0's finally settled down a bit? I heard things like oil leaks, CPS taking a vacation and unexpected power downs while pulling from a stop. Hearing good news would make me feel better if my rig hapens to get wacked by one of these Austin idiot drivers, green, yellow, red it's all the same... just drive through :silly:

 

[Neil Wig]

Patman, what problems have you heard regarding the PSD? A friend works at one of the large ford dealerships in Saskatoon. According to him, ford has had some big problems with the new PSD. At the back of their lot, they have a full row of PSD trucks that are sold to customers, but they can't keep them running. I find this a little hard to believe. If Budget Rent-a-racer can keep this F350 PSD running in their rental fleet, the PSD must have some durability. Budget used to have a bunch of DuraMaxs in their fleet. I haven't had one for quite a while (8 months). Maybe they have a durability issue as well?

hp500efi, how big are you? This seems to make a huge difference in the comfort between ford and GM. I'm not a runt (5'10" @ 180 lb), and I have to have the seat WAY ahead to touch the pedals comfortably....or as comfortable as it gets. I end up in a near vertical seating position, pushing DOWN on the pedals. And no, I don't look like Hank Hill's father.
As far as the DuraMax being a beta engine, what would you call the 6.0 PSD? I sure wouldn't buy one this year.
YMMV
Neil.

 

[Patman]

Just pretty much what I listed. Trucks with less that 1,000 miles developing severe oil leaks at the back. The CPS might or might not sporadically work causing the rest of the truck to follow suit obviously. And then the mysterious shut down from idle, hit the pedal and the truck might go forward and continue going or it might lurch and then go to sleep. Not things I'd be real excited about dealing with myself, even if it was covered. The 7.3 is like an anvil, 200 or 300K and it might need something provided it's been reasonably cared for. The Isuzu just doesn't have the history under it's belt yet so if for some reason I need a new rig the Cummins would be the only way out, not bad but the rest of the rig isn't that impressive to me.

 

[KenR]

The durability issues for all these diesels are kinda funny. If you read any of the diesel forums you'll see claims that all the "new" engines are having big problems, e.g. Duramax aluminum head warpage is/was a big one, false by the way.

I have two freinds that also have D-Max's. Two of us have had no issues whatsoever, one had a fuel rail and pump problem that GM took care of on his 01. Another buddy has always driven the P-Strokes and has had no problems. With as many Duramax's on the road racking up miles since they were introduced in 2001, I consider them pretty well sorted out, at least from my own experience. Cummins are too noisy for me, though I believe they've proven to be a good powerplant.

As for interior room, I'm 6'-5", 200lbs and the 2500HD body fits my body pretty well. I still have an inch or so left for the seat to move back if I needed it.

 

[gasgasman]

Not trying to change the subject topic here.

The early 6.0L did have some problems. They were nothing major, usually a PCM calibration concern or leaking injector "o" rings.

There is a recall for reflashing the PCM, replacing the ICP(injector control press) sensor and giving the cust a free oil change.

By comparison, the 7.3L had the same growing pains when it came out.
Ford probably rushed the engine out before they could work the bugs out.

I was at the Ford training center for a 4 day class on the 6.0L. We stripped down the engine and did all kinds of neat diagnostic stuff on the vehicle.
It is well made and has some inovative components on it.

 

[Patman]

:thumb: Thanks GGMan that makes me feel better :worship: :worship: