Did this ever occur to anyone else...

[woodsy]

I just got back from Honda's websight checking out the new CRF's (230).. Here we go again with Honda doing their thing using all the great stuff about the CRF450 to sell other bikes. I remember vividly the disappointment on my friends face when he went down to the Honda shop in 1976 and bought himself a brand new Honda MR175 Elsinore. He and I had been riding together for many years and he was sooooooo impressed with my 73 CR250M Elsinore that he thought he couldnt go wrong buying a little smaller version of this ICON (he was scared to death of my bike :)). The two bikes were not even on the same planet much less page!!! It turned out that Honda had chosen to use the "Elsinore" name as a marketing tool (dont blame them for that - just should have at least tryed to included some of the Elsinore greatness). I later rode with a couple of guys who owned MT250 Elsinores (PIGS) and the same was true in that case!!
I dont know about anyone else but I was very excited about the Idea of an off road CRF230 - but not now!! Upon inspection the newest CRF reveals the same senario as what happened many years ago. If you are considering purchasing one of these bikes please be forwarned of this!! It is a glorified XR - again IMO.
On a positive note, I am sure that they will be that same old Honda quality and workmanship!! IMO they (Honda) should have chosen a different name then CRF is all - Maybe like CRFWIW (wish I was) 230.
CYA in the woods
Woodsy

 

[MotoGreg]

I checked out the CRF150 and 230 at the Honda display at Laguna Seca and they look like big, overweight heaps compared to our TTR125L. I was thinking we could trade our TTR in and get a new CRF150 to match my CRF but no way now that I've seen it in person.

 

[woodsy]

And that coming from a Honda CRF owner!!! Think of what they could have done!! All that CRF superbness in a woodsbike!! I think there would have been alot of folks looking to get rid of some TTR's, KLX's, ect.... Oh well, maybe nest time!!
Woodsy

 

[crkid]

I don't see a problem with it. I mean.....unless you buy bikes before looking at them. If you went to a shop and saw a 230F sitting next to the 450F it's obvious that the CC's isn't the only difference.

 

[woods_rider1]

I think woodsys original intent with the post was; if its an XR call it an XR, dont try to market it as something it is not. It is not, nor ever will be a CRF even though it is using the name... it is still an XR! I agree with you 100% woodsy. Just because the upped the cc's of the XR 100 to 150, and 200 to 230, doesnt mean they deserve the CRF name.

 

[biglou]

I disagree with Honda's choice of model number/name for that line of bikes. The only thing that resembles a CRF (remotely, that is) is the bodywork. I could see calling them the "XRF" or something else, but when someone says CRF230, I would envision Honda's version of the YZ250F. That's my $.02.

 

[CanadianRidr]

You guys are forgetting that there is no "R" behind the name.

When I think of CRF230, I think of trail bike
When I think of CRF250R, I think of race bike.

It's just something I picked up on, im sure lots of other's won't but with a odd engine size and no "R" I don't mistake them :)

 

[OnAnySunday]

I agree -w- BigLou.
"CR" should not have been used in the designation of these 2 new models.
(wether "F""R""Q" or "Z" is used or not.)
CR has always designated Honda's motocross/performance line since day one.
(i remember cuz i had one of the first '74- CR125 elsi's in central Pa.) :)
In fact i think the CRF450 should have been named XR450RR or ZXR450R or something, but thats just MHO.
I think Honda is just trying to cash in on the "i wanna have a moto-X (or at least a bike that LOOKS like moto-X) bike mommy P L E A S E !!!!"
fad that is going on all over America.
moto this, moto that, gotta jump that 80' triple or die trying.......
YEESH!
I mean, dont get me wrong i love motocross. But it's just ONE part of this wonderfull sport that we all enjoy.
So many people now think motorcycles, and automatically think of moto bikes doing flips and cartwheels over 40' in the air.
I bet that 90% of people out there are still just casuall trail riders.
Or what about harescrambles, dualsport rides, trials, speedway, hillclimbs, etc, etc.

What? what's that? i'm rambling again?!
oh poop, signing off............... :think:

 

[OnAnySunday]

Originally posted by woodsy :
"I remember vividly the disappointment on my friends face when he went down to the <a href="http://www.dirtrider.net/cgi-bin/clickpro/click.cgi?id=10" target="_blank"></b>Honda</b></a> shop in 1976 and bought himself a brand new <a href="http://www.dirtrider.net/cgi-bin/clickpro/click.cgi?id=10" target="_blank"></b>Honda</b></a> MR175 Elsinore. It turned out that <a href="http://www.dirtrider.net/cgi-bin/clickpro/click.cgi?id=10" target="_blank"></b>Honda</b></a> had chosen to use the "Elsinore" name as a marketing tool (dont blame them for that - just should have at least tryed to included some of the Elsinore greatness). I later rode with a couple of guys who owned MT250 Elsinores (PIGS) and the same was true in that case!!"

True they were called "elsinores" but they held no CR designation.
The MR was and enduro mount, and the MT a dualsport.
In fact Honda's "baby" elsinore also held a MR designation. The MR50.
I think Honda went -w- the elsinore name to familiarize the public -w their NEW 2 stroke line of bikes.
Honda didnt do smokers before that, just thumpers.

 

[Dirtvet]

I know it's obvious.

If it looks like an XR, feels like an XR, weighs like an XR, it's an XR.

I like my little boy's XR 80. I really do. The 230 is just a big XR 80. Nothing more, or less. Honda is simply wrong to hype it as anything but an XR. XRs are great bikes for what they are. They are not race bikes, or even serious woods/off road bikes. They are just easy to ride fun bikes.

Anyone who wants a serious bike would know to not buy the 230. Those of us who like XR fun (like me) probably will. My CR 250 is too much of a handfull for me.

 

[2001yz250]

Yes, I agree, it is confusing. The 'R' designation has no meaning either since the XRs have that too. example XR400R

 

[woodsy]

I think woodsys original intent with the post was; if its an XR call it an XR, dont try to market it as something it is not. It is not, nor ever will be a CRF even though it is using the name... it is still an XR! I agree with you 100% woodsy. Just because the upped the cc's of the XR 100 to 150, and 200 to 230, doesnt mean they deserve the CRF name.

------------------------------------------------»

BINGO!! There is a lot to be said about "deserving the CRF name"!! We can go back and forth about it doesnt have an R in it or how much we know about the differences between the bikes, but, the truth of the matter is that Marketeers know how well names sell bikes!! Dont get me wrong, I know that this happens in other consumer products too. I just happen to be an avid dirt biker and it makes me sad when a huge company like Honda resorts to these tactics!! IMO they dont need to resort to "trickery" or "questionable marketing practices" to sell bikes - they have some of the finest equipment on the planet - an example the REAL CRF450!!
By the way, good response to this post!! Maybe someone who knows someone will read this and others postings like this and it will make a difference, course maybe we will all get free CRF'S too hahahaha!
Woodsy

 

[baxterj787]

CanadianRidr has it on the money! I agree that it is a half-hearted attempt, but thedesignations are a bit different. CRF150/230F vs CRF450R. They are attempting to create a more uniform image for their line up, or some similar MARKETING catch phrase. The scope of the model hasn't changed at all from the XR line. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see all the XRs rebadged as CRF-Fs in the future.

 

[XRpredator]

2001yz250, the R designation on the XR's was to signify the dirt model. i.e. the XR250R, as opposed to the XR250L street/dualsport model, which replaced the XL250R, which replaced the XL250, which replaced the SL250, which . . . ah, never mind. :confused:

 

[OnAnySunday]

Originally posted by baxterj787 :
"I wouldn't be at all surprised to see all the XRs rebadged as CRF-Fs in the future. "



:scream: :|

 

[OnAnySunday]

Originally posted by XRpredator :
"as opposed to the XR250L street/dualsport model, which replaced the XL250R, which replaced the XL250, which replaced the SL250, which . . . ah, never mind. :confused: "

ahem......to continue.....which replaced the CL175 (there was never a CL250.)...why NOT anyways???....ahem.....which was upgraded from the CT series.....which was an ofshoot of the CD series.......i think... :confused:
oh poop, i'm probably wrong past the CT thing anyways......

 

[woodsy]

Your responses inspired me to check into this prefix/suffix letter thing. The CR in the CR series dates all the way back to the original Elsinore that I rode back in 73.. It (CR) stands for "close ratio transmission" which I must confess I have been aware of all along here, it just never occured to me!! The "F" of course stands for fourstroke. This discovery (or remembrance) puts a whole new light on the my calling Honda on the carpet over this whole thing. I may very well have been premature on all this!!
I have not ridden or seen for that matter any of the new "CRF" models. I do know that at present time there are no "close ratio" XR's produced by Honda as the XR series is built on the wide ratio premise for trail riding usage. The CR tranny is suppose to be a close course intended use. If that is what their intent is I am very encouraged, and I truley do owe them an apology!!
On the other hand, I still do not believe that is what is goiing on! I will gladly eat my words if someone here knows for sure that Honda is truely building a new Close Ratio Fourstroke offroad bike..
Woodsy

 

[kmccune]

No Woodsy you had it right, but I think that Honda is just scrambling to catch up ( to a marketing void) , so they offered the CRF 150 and 230 though I’m with Nicky on the CR 100 frame thing (oops diff. post on a close topic :confused: ). My real hope is that they take up the clean 2 stoke design they started a few years ago?? Well I can dream can’t I ? OK maybe they are working on a kick @$$ 4 stroke? Don’t count them out as they have had a continuous line of 4S for a long time and I believe that they don’t like to be out done. :cool: That is a lot of Honda praise from a Yamaha guy!


Cheers

Kevin

 

[Tim250F]

I think what Honda is trying to do is get away from the XR badge and force consumers to look at these bikes more as "play bikes" rather than "entry level" machines. Honda definately lost many XR sales to the TT-R line and are just trying to change their image in people's minds about thier new models.

 

[slo' mo]

Originally posted by woodsy
I later rode with a couple of guys who owned MT250 Elsinores (PIGS) and the same was true in that case!!
CYA in the woods
Woodsy

I had one of the "PIGS" given to me last year from an old barn. 74 MT250E w/3K miles and original tires. Hey, if it's got two wheels, a motor and you can ride it, IT'S FUN :aj:

 

[woodsy]

Sorry about that slam on the MTs Mo!! I said that in a context of comparison to the real "Elsinore" CR250!! I agree with you 100%. AS LONG AS IT HAS TWO WHEELS AND IS RIDEABLE WE CAN HAVE A RIOT ON IT HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I guess I just lost sight of what is important about all this - people having FUN!! Thanks for bringing ol Woodsy back to REALITY!!
CYA in the woods, or on the sidewalk on a moped, or on a streetbike.....
Woodsy :)