Do you Have Medical Opinion to Support use of Braces ?

Doc P

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Hi Billy,
Just some Questions about knee braces,I hope you can help with any,
1. Medical journal article's to support knee brace use.
2. Give feed back or dispell rumore of increased tibia/fibular/femor fractures with knee brace use?
I have asked my ortho surgeon and he feels that ,Knee braces dont offer a lot and have more detractions.
His oppinion is do more muscle strength work ,and only use knee guards for protection.

Thank for your time
Cheers
Doc P
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,555
2,237
Texas
Not speaking for Billy, but I think if you search the forums, you'll find out that this has been covered many times.

My, non-professional opinion? You're gettin it anyway :)

1) I'll take a broken bone over a blown knee, anytime. Yes, I've had both. Bones heal in relative short order and well, knees are never the same again. That's not to say that a brace will cause a broken bone.

Transfer the force required to break a femur to your knee? No thanks.

2) Assuming you are in decent shape for the sport, you should have muscle strength. Wearing the brace while riding is not going to cause muscle apathy. Wear it 24/7, I suppose that could happen.
3) There are opinions both ways. Most professional MX'er / Off-Road'er out there wear braces of one kind or another. Most of those from one company. I'm sure they have access to good sports / ortho doctors and have heard the arguments. If it wasn't in their best interest, I doubt they'd wear them.

Just my .02
 

Doc P

Member
Oct 14, 2004
4
0
Okiewan,I did have a good look around,what I did find was a lot of post's form happy camper's,in the most part and some upset, at a peceved lack of after sales support,That was fixed pronto .

I just need Medical Journal Articals,to show my Dr so the braces can be covered by insurance,It has to be Proven not just peoples Opinion,Valid as it maybe Doctors only trust Journal Articals,for proof.
Over here in Australia the cost of braces is allmost $2,000.00 dollars ,Two Thousand Dollars is a lot of money,That is for me to just throw away, so sorry to ask Questions.
Can any one help Please.
Cheers
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,555
2,237
Texas
Understand.. just giving an opinion... there have been references to articles, not sure if they were medical journals. Hopefully someone will have a link.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Cells can be (or are supposed to be) bought with insurance (in the States anyway) as they are not and not marketed as, a medical device. The CTI's (custom fit) are available by doctor prescription.
 

darringer

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Dec 2, 2001
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I offer no help, just another opinion. I also do not own Asterisks. Having suffered several non-motorcycling knee injuries, I know that they are worth whatever you can afford to pay for them. If I did not wear braces I would no longer be able to ride. There is so much instability in my knees that even walking can be a problem. Given the nature of dirt biking, (occasional crashes), knee braces offer the extra support and protection that I must have. As far as bone breaks. I would trade them for my lifelong knee problems any day. If you can afford the bike, you can afford the protection. Just my .02
Darrin
 

Patman

Pantless Wonder
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Maybe ask the doc if he's ever had a blown knee and/or broken bone personally so he could speak from experience on his opinion. If he hasn't then it's just that "opinion". Most insurance carriers believe it's easier for them to take the gamble that you will not blow your knee out, then IF you do they pay big but they play the odds and win most of the time. Besides why should they care if your kneee is nver the same it's not their knee.
 

Farmer John

T.C.F.<br>(tire changin' fool)
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Mar 8, 2000
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Here is some more info that doesn't really fit what you asked for, but......;)

I used to work at Stanford Medical Center, I was the buyer for the O.R. & during this time I delt with a lot of Ortho Docs. One ay I was going riding after work & it turned out that I had parked next to one of these Docs. While I was transfering my gear from the front seat to the bed of the truck the Doc that I parked next to came walking up. We started talking about some stuff we had been working on. While we were talking he seen my Cells. He asked about them & I handed one to him he checked it out, handed it back & I thought that was the last of that. Two days later said Doc comes to my office & asks if I can get him a pair. I was confused to say the least because this guy had any kind of brace available to him for free. I got him a set from the local bike shop & when he came by my office to pick them up I asked him why. He wanted them for mountian biking. He felt they had better pattela protection than most. That was 3 years ago & just recently I sold him a second set. First set had been lost by an airline.

The doctors name is Arthur Ting, I do not know if this name means diddly to you, but I will lay a fiver down your Doc knows exactly who he is. ;)

I figure if they are good enough for the Doc of some of the top MotoGP guys, there good enough for me.

Another thing is I have broken my right Tibia and I have done lots of soft tissue damage to my left knee. I will take a broken Tibia over soft tissue damage any day.

Best of luck in your research. :cool:
 

MX-727

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Aug 4, 2000
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This thread causes me to wonder why Doc Bodnar hasn't addressed any of these questions? Even if he doesn't feel qualified to fully explore the knee brace issue, I would think that he knows some doctors who know some doctors who would be interested in this research.

As an opinion, I don't feel that our sport is the same as other sports such as skiing, mountain biking or running when it comes to saying that wearing braces causes the muscles to become weak and dependent on the brace. Our sport doesn't really exercise the knee like pedaling, skiing or jogging. We are trying to protect against the single catastrophic event, much like wearing a helmet.
 

srellis

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May 25, 2002
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My son recently had a grade two tear of his MCL and was off his bike for 8 weeks. (Ok, we did let him ride carefully to keep his points in the series.) Once the orthopedic surgeon that saw him released him to ride, I took with us several different options in braces. The doc said he wouldn't recommend him using a brace since he has healed. We are going to buy him something anyway....
SusanE
 

oldguy

Always Broken
Dec 26, 1999
9,419
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Susan as a recipient of new grafted ACL, MCL and Lats I wonted sit on my bike without cells on. My son also wears his everytime he rides- we actually just bought his new set this week as he outgrew the last ones. When the Tech at Asterisk saw the old pair come in for a total rebuild so we could sell them he basically told us they would be shipping a new pair by the time they replaced the parts that needed replacing. This extensive rebuild is not due to poor quality but because my son wears and abuses these braces everyday and all the dings, dents, and cracks would have been on him if not for the braces. Since he has been wearing them he has not had one single knee injury/pain whereas the season before he got them he missed 4 weeks once and 6 weeks another time due to knee injuries (thankfully nothing lasting). It has been killing him not having them this week while waiting for the new ones (and the 'old pair') to come back so he can ride again before winter hits us full force.

After reading the links Okie posted I feel even more confident of our choice of the cells if Dr Ting believes they are worth it for him.
 

Chili

Lifetime Sponsor - Photog Moderator
Apr 9, 2002
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I feel confident in saying that without his cells LazyBoy would be waiting for knee reconstruction surgery while his busted femur heals. I think it's a pretty common opinion among ortho doc's to avoid braces but I'll take the broken bone versus the knee reconstruction. Again another reply that doesn't address the thread starters request, however at todays exchange a set of Cells would run you approx $686 Australian dollars plus shipping.
 

Doc P

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Chilli, Thanks for a reply,and to everyone else thanks for your time,I hope you all had a good Thanks Giving,
Can I purchase some cells off this site or an other place or direct, the Aussie importer is asking too much for a set,$686 is far more attractive than 2 thousand he is asking for,
 

Doc P

Member
Oct 14, 2004
4
0
I still can't belive there are no papers that support or dispute any of the ancedotal benefits,of using knee braces.
So can anyone shed some light on this please.
Thanks for your help
 

Patman

Pantless Wonder
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I actually got my Cells after splitting my patella in half for the second time. The knee specialist I see was appaled at the condition of my knees in general and to say the least was not real happy when I did the patela split a second time in 8 weeks (almost perfectly parallel to the first!). He had told me that there was not really any "great" solutions for me as most braces he could fit me with at the time had a fixed knee cup that possibly could have slashed my knee open. I happened to mention I was looking at the Cells and to my suprise he knew exactly what I was talking about! I ordered a pair and took them in for a follow up visit, he fitted them to his satisfaction after a careful inspection. He noted that the patela protection was by far the best he had ever seen and no doubt would have prevented my current problem. He was also very impressed with the hinge design as well as the leg cuffs with his only comment being that they were more bulky than some other options but that the overall product was far better for my activities. I doubt there will ever be a paper that proves once and for all if it is better to brace or not but from my side of the discussion there is no doubt that I wish I had them BEFORE I had done all the soft tissue damage as well as the whole knee cap incidents.
 

techman

Member
Feb 18, 2000
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0
Doc P,

Shoot into Pubmed and do a search. I found this for starters:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15788733

I haven't checked if the full text is accessable to me, but being a doc perhaps its accessable to you.

Here's another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15297123

and another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12875565

and another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12741421

This one mentions self-healing and meniscal damage:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12029510

Having just learned about the Donjoy brand, this one seemed pertinent:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11491426

Do your kids ride?:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/2/503

A brace seems to help immediately post ACL surgery, but two years later there's no advantage in healing:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11252459

An overview: (are prophylactic knee braces ribbed and lubricated latex, wheras the others might use stiffeners such as carbon fiber ;) :rotfl: Just kidding; sometimes these medical terms sound a little unusual)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10709020

A traditional acedemia "Well I'm not sure, it should be studied some more" paper circa 2000:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10670507

Earlier vs later scheduling of ACL/MCL surgery:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10447618

Bracing or not after surgery:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10431312

"Nobody seems to have studied the durned effectiveness of bracing yet!" circa 1998:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9785773

If ya wear your straps too tight your legs will lose good blood circulation (say "perfusion" slowly; it doesn't mean confusion ;)):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9689380

Rugby guys studied knee braces too (circa 1998):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9629609

High school football and knee braces:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9392932

Controlling tibial translations (ie the bottom half of your leg is "loose" ie sloppy knee joint:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8827316

JP thinks that knee braces are Al(b)right at improving resistance to lateral blows by 20-30%:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8571003

This guy tried out lots of models personally:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7788312

Prophylactic knee braces in football circa 1993:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8366281

Circa 1993 knee brace dimensions are good enough for optimal (maximal) valgus force accomodation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8326718

Swedish hockey players studied circa 1991 with no great reduction of knee injuries (I'm not sure of nature of braces used by them):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1777786

I would think the Asterisk folks ought to have a binder or two, or a shelf or two of such and related research papers relevant to their work.

Happy reading. Basic research can be real eye opening.
 
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