Does anybody else think it would be a good idea to

James · Nov 2, 2002

discontinue this public discussion of why the site needs to have subscribers. I think this should be common sense to any reasonable person.

I don't think the whining is contributing to our site in any way and I don't think there is any obligation for DRN to provide these people a place to openly express their displeasure over not getting freebies. I also wonder if the announcements need to be left open for replies of similar nature. It also seems that the true membership of the forum is getting tired of it....I know I am.

Just speaking from my experiences on other boards and I mean this in the best interest of the forums and don't mean for this to be critical in any way of what Okie and the mods have done thus far. Just a suggestion.

I'll gladly volunteer to assume the task of deleting any such posts if the help is needed.

Tony Eeds · Nov 3, 2002

James
I understand the underlying theme of your post and agree. But IMHO we need to come up with some compelling way to convince folks that DRN is worth their support.

Nothing is free in this world except silence, and silence is what we will have if people continue to perceive that the internet is free. I just went to a site suggested by Papakeith a week or so ago and downloaded the beggarware that PK had discovered. I then sent the guy $5.00 for his trouble. I don't have the slightest clue if $5.00 was enough, too little, too much or WAY too much, but I sent it. I wonder how many people download his little program without even thinking twice about it. If the guy can't support his little dab of bandwidth, it will likely go away. Nevermind he went to the time to create a neat little program in the first place.

All my clients want a copy of a development proforma that I have created. I will gladly give them a copy of the printout with a bill for the effort it took to input the data multiplied by the experience factor of 30 years of learning about what I do. I will not even allow people access to my computer, nor will I give and/or sell a copy of the software until I come up with a satisfactory way to incript it. That information (formulas etc) is my meal ticket.

If they don't respect my experience and are not willing to pay for it, then I have just witnessed the first clue as to why I would be wasting my time with them.

Hell, maybe Okiewan should post the financials on the site. The only problem is there is always some mohon willing to debate that anything beyond $1.00 of profit is too much. That would open a whole new can of worms.

James · Nov 3, 2002

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
James
I understand the underlying theme of your post and agree. But IMHO we need to come up with some compelling way to convince folks that DRN is worth their support.

Hell, maybe Okiewan should post the financials on the site. The only problem is there is always some mohon willing to debate that anything beyond $1.00 of profit is too much. That would open a whole new can of worms.

I agree, finding a compelling way to sell the site would be great.

I don't think trying to teach them economics and appealing to their charitable side is working. I wouldn't even go near posting financial information. SOmetimes less info is better than too much. Point is, we shouldn't have to justify the different membership levels....just communicate what they are.

BSWIFT · Nov 3, 2002

I personally like the discussions. If I get tired of it, I won't open the thread. The announcements are in place at the top of every forum. Some never look at the announcements and that is just the way it is. I would keep it this way to prevent pop up messages. Okie has laid down the rules, play/pay by/buy them.

Lew · Nov 4, 2002

It will blow over. People hate change and we just had some change. Soon many will support and those who don't will quit whinning.
Lew

Okiewan · Nov 4, 2002

I spend a good deal of time in a group of webmasters who are all going thru the same thing with their popular forums. No, these changes are not my original idea, there are a LOT of owners doing the same thing, all with pretty much the same responses from the members.

There are pro/cons in either way of announcing it... tell 'em the truth (costs too high) at least they understand why you are doing it, but is a somewhat negitive approach.

Many of them (other sites never turned-on all the features we have, not to mention hacking in a lot more), so all they have to do is show new features for becoming a subscriber, no one has a problem with it. In this case I had no choice but to take some away, therefore, me bad guy. There's no compelling reason to subscribe without benefits. By nature, the vast majority of users will not contribute unless they have to. The biggest percentage won't contribute no matter what. Even if it was $0.10 per month It's a double edged sword.

Like Lew said, it will everntually blow-over. Hopefully before too much negitive reaction. Got my first "you suck, remove my account" email this morning. I'm guessing the ones that take that approach won't be missed anyway.

Person8 · Nov 4, 2002

Originally posted by Okiewan
I'm guessing the ones that take that approach won't be missed anyway.

Agreed!

Larry

IrishEKU · Nov 4, 2002

Originally posted by Okiewan
Got my first "you suck, remove my account" email this morning. I'm guessing the ones that take that approach won't be missed anyway.

*Ed McMahan(sp) voice on*

Ha! You are Correct Sir!

*Yes Man voice off*

Okiewan, really all it boils down to is "What you have to do" and "What is best for the site as a whole", I belive you have used both comments before. It is the Charicter and Integrity of the members that do help that keep me coming back day in and day out. I wouldn't loose any sleep over someone that obviously is thinking on the same level as a spoiled 6 y/o.

James · Nov 4, 2002

Well I expected that there would be negative reactions and I think you are handling the announcements and such just fine as well as being fair to the users of the site.

My only concern was that it can't help the cause any to have a flood of posts about the "gistapo" that run the site and how DRN is "taking stuff away", blah, blah, blah.

"If I get tired of it, I won't open the thread."

Most well adjusted adults would. SOme people will take those threads and any other opportunity to complain. Many will turn into arguments. It doesn't pay off to argue or rationalize with people who just want to complain.

It will blow over quicker if we don't provide free space for the complainers to complain. The one thread that inspired this topic has been "cleaned" and I think it is beginning to settle down.

Rich Rohrich · Nov 4, 2002

Originally posted by Okiewan
Got my first "you suck, remove my account" email this morning.

HEY, I was having a bad morning so I sent a few cranky e-mails, I'm only human. :scream:

Rich Rohrich · Nov 4, 2002

Originally posted by James
The one thread that inspired this topic has been "cleaned" and I think it is beginning to settle down.

It was either clean the thread or drive to the f@#@ing whining nancy boy piker's house and beat the will to live out of him. I was low on gas so I decided to clean the thread instead. :thumb:

James · Nov 4, 2002

Good choice....it's hard to test fuels and complex mechanical theories while you're in prison. :)

RM_guy · Nov 4, 2002

I kind of agree with James on this. I don't think we should stop trying to push becoming a member but maybe back off a bit. It can be pretty intimidating for some newbie to ask a somewhat dumb question and then get blasted by everyone and being told to pay up if or else (that's what it sounds like sometimes :()

So instead of just complaining, here's my idea. Just give 'em the facts. Dierct them to the anoucement thread on becoming a subscriber and leave it at that. Don't have 20 additional posts saying the same freaking thing from other well meaning members. All that does is put them on the defensive and the thread gets ugly.

Some people respond to being made to feel guilty and others will tell you to shove it. Give them the facts and let them decide. Period. No pressure.

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