Family Enduro Series - 2008

fatherandson

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#1
I wanted to share some thoughts about next year. I doubt we are going to have 8 events next year (as I expect there will be fewer district races too). I am already talking to clubs about next year and I am looking for other clubs/people who may be interested in promoting FES events. I would expect at least three FES events in Indiana next year.

Here are some ideas that are being bounced around. The only official class change that I foresee is combining the 20-29 and 30-39 to a 20-39 class due to low attendance.
There have been a couple of suggestions for "exhibition only" classes - Vintage and adults on mini bikes (<120cc). Exhibition only means that you are competing for bragging rights only - no trophies.
I think with our scoring improvements that later key times are a must...at least 10:00, but I would prefer 11:00.
I likes the Matthew assigned rows. Classes I, J, K, and L in the first 20 rows. Classes D, E, F, G and H in the next 20 rows and A, B and C in the final 20 rows. I understand there was a minor misunderstanding (a K rider wanted to ride with his son in the F class) for those that signed up on Friday night or early Saturday, but it got resolved.

Other ideas?????

We have established a "board of directors" that includes corporate sponsors, clubs and participants. Ideas will be discussed at our annual meeting.
 

Steve St.Laurent

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#2
My 7 yr old has been talking about entering some FES events (possibly next year when she's 8). Reading that bit about assigned rows if it's setup that way does that mean that I couldn't ride it along with her? I'd have to make her wait at least a couple years before I'd be ready to send her off alone like that if that's the way it would be setup.
 
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#3
As a parent {P} or an X rider you would be able to ride along with your daughter.
 

WomanRider

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#4
fatherandson said:
I likes the Matthew assigned rows. Classes I, J, K, and L in the first 20 rows. Classes D, E, F, G and H in the next 20 rows and A, B and C in the final 20 rows. I understand there was a minor misunderstanding (a K rider wanted to ride with his son in the F class) for those that signed up on Friday night or early Saturday, but it got resolved.
The assigning of rows this way sucked. This put several competers in the same class right next to each other. Which caused problems out on the trail, when their support riders were in the way of the faster competetition. There have been several times for me when "p" riders have been a problem. A faster rider then has to pass 2 or 3 (why a rider would have 2 support riders not understandable) riders instead of one. The support rider does not get out of the way. The rows should be opened for anyone to choose any numbers. Spread the competers out so we are not riding next to others in our class. I do like the youngest riders A, B, and C toward the back. I see this as a safety issue for those younger riders. Putting the oldest riders in the front did not make any sense. It grouped the most competitive classes up to close together.

Furthermore riding in the H class I would rather ride with olders riders than be grouped with the younger. Just my opinion.

I also feel anyone over 16 or 18 should not be allowed to have a support rider. At somepoint they have to start doing thing on their own. I know of one woman rider who has been riding less than a year and rode three races this year with no support rider with her. She should be commended with a special award. I think she did fantastic. She finished one race, and that was her goal. I also think this would open the class up to fair competition and give the older riders more confidence in their own ability. You want independant riders, right, who might want to ride Sunday, right. Then this is your start. Just my opinion.
 

Smit-Dog

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#5
fatherandson said:
... The only official class change that I foresee is combining the 20-29 and 30-39 to a 20-39 class due to low attendance.
I agree. See link below for the most current event / class stats (with an average of 27 riders, the L class is still huge!).

http://www.d14enduro.org/results/2007/2007_d-14_fes_series_stats.pdf

For an '07 to '06 comparison, in looking at the first 4 events (the rest are new this year), we've seen an average increase of 44 riders per event. :cool:

... There have been a couple of suggestions for "exhibition only" classes - Vintage and adults on mini bikes (<120cc). Exhibition only means that you are competing for bragging rights only - no trophies.
I wonder how many actual riders we'd get for these classes. Are you thinking separate Vintage and Pit Bike classes? We're merging the J class right now because it only averages 7 riders per event. :think:

... I think with our scoring improvements that later key times are a must...at least 10:00, but I would prefer 11:00.
Strongly agree... Minimum 10-11am key time. Distance is also a factor.... the Mini Moose does it right with a 1pm key time. Scoring / results can be processed faster these days, but I also need time to unload, haul, setup (and sometimes troubleshoot) equipment, find and train volunteers, etc. AND get signed-up. I think the clubs would also have a slightly better turnout with a later keytime.

I know it's not always possible, but having the FES and AMA events stage out of the same location is also a huge time saver regarding equipment setup/breakdown. Where possible, clubs should be encouraged to do this.

...I likes the Matthew assigned rows. Classes I, J, K, and L in the first 20 rows. Classes D, E, F, G and H in the next 20 rows and A, B and C in the final 20 rows. I understand there was a minor misunderstanding (a K rider wanted to ride with his son in the F class) for those that signed up on Friday night or early Saturday, but it got resolved.
I agree that A/B/C (and possibly even D) get assigned in the last 1/3 rows. This should be a guideline, not a rule. I'll also include more specifics in the FES sign-up info sheet about clarifying that a K (or whatever adult/parent) rider can ride with their A/B/C kid on the same row.

... We have established a "board of directors" that includes corporate sponsors, clubs and participants. Ideas will be discussed at our annual meeting.
I have some ideas on ways that sponsors can benefit from promotions within the FES events. Ties in with MotoTally results / web site and the Marketing / Sponsorship role posted last week.

Other ideas / thoughts...
- AMA enduro participants should not be competing in FES events. The intent of the FES is to introduce and teach the sport of enduros and timekeeping to riders that are new to it, not award trophies to experienced enduro riders.

- In a similar vein, limit trophies in the 20+ classes to the top 3 only. Save these trophies for the kids in classes where they will have more impact / benefit.

- Provide some sort of incentive to any FES rider who wants to try their first AMA enduro. Maybe free entry for the first event, and 1/2 off entry $ for the remainder of their first season. I believe that there are some older FES kids (16+) right now who could ride some of the less difficult AMA enduros, but are intimidated or hesitant. For that matter, there were some 7-8 year olds at Matthews who dropped only a handful of seconds in the first loop... They're ready to graduate! ;) .... Just thinking that a financial incentive may help riders move on to the Sunday event, or at least try one.

- I really like the entry fee structure used the latter half of the season (~$20 scored / $15 X-P).

- Really like the swap meet idea Heather S. came up with.... This might be a good tradition at the first and last FES of the season (come spring a lot of kids will have sprouted).

Great job F&S on growing the FES to what it is today.... Without it, I doubt we'll have much of a sport 10-15 years from now.
 

bbarel

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#6
I was hoping to try FES events with my 2 boys next year, who are 3 years apart, but if we cannot ride together then I'll definately just take them trail riding instead.

I disagree with WomanRider about disallowing 16-18 riders to ride with parents. This is the FAMILY enduro series and fathers and sons want to ride together. If some P or X riders are being a problem, then they should dealt with, but it is not right to punish everyone for a few bad apples.
 

Smit-Dog

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#7
WomanRider said:
... This put several competers in the same class right next to each other. Which caused problems out on the trail, when their support riders were in the way of the faster competetition. There have been several times for me when "p" riders have been a problem. A faster rider then has to pass 2 or 3 (why a rider would have 2 support riders not understandable) riders instead of one. The support rider does not get out of the way.
Passing and trail traffic are a component of all enduros, and FES is no exception. I think the series has put some things in place to help prevent traffic from A/B/C riders. Same thing with class competitors in nearby rows... it's all part of the enduro experience. If you're having trouble with support riders purposely blocking trail, sign-up for DW's AFM class. ;)

... I also feel anyone over 16 or 18 should not be allowed to have a support rider.
A rider 16+ could very well be a new rider, and need a support rider. Also, as BBarel stated, multiple generations like to ride together, so this should not be discouraged or disallowed.
 

FlyinRyan

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#8
I think the idea of the A, B, C classes riding in the back rows is great. I only got to ride a couple FES events this year but I know at Roselawn in the spring I took a late minute on purpose so we wouldn't be in anyone's way. But there were still riders behind us and some were pretty impatient with us when we were trying to get out of the way. At the Muddobbers it was great as we only had to move over a couple times and the riders were close to the same caliper.

I agree with BBarel, this is the Family Enduro Series. I know some riders will always take it to serious but if you start limiting who can ride with who and how many people can start to ride as support riders it will wreck the series. I love the events as it gives me a chance to ride with my son and my father. There's nothing cooling then having three generations riding together and then bench racing all night about the event. I know that if the three of us couldn't ride together then I would have to rethink attending the events.

I know at the Muddobbers there was some talk of the "adults" taking it a little to series to win there classes. I agree with Smitdog about limiting the trophies in the higher age groups. This series is suppose to be fun and a learning experience for everyone. Just a thought but maybe points and awards should only be given to certain age groups / classes and others should only be used as learning experince.
 

fatherandson

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#9
I can not respond to all items under discussion, but I will agree that the spirit of the FES is defined when you have three generations riding together - Allen and Moss families for example - OR when you have the entire family (mom, dad and kids) riding together - Soenksens and Cousinaws for example. I apologize if I missed anyone, just trying to make a point.
The 16+ womens class has some serious competitors and it is fun to watch.
However, I have witnessed some ofthe older, male riders taking the series too seriously. I have talked to a couple of them and I have encouraged the clubs NOT to provide a lot of trophies for these classes. I like the idea of dropping one the adult, male classes and having a couple of exhibition only classes. MAYBE all of the adult, male classes should be EXHIBITION ONLY????
 
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#10
FES - The formula is GREAT!


Team 3G

* Prefers - later keytimes. 1 is perfect. 11 is excellent. 10 is good. 9 is a little rough; but, it's not like 9am kept us from riding and having fun.


* Liked - the Matthew assigned rows. Classes I, J, K, and L in the first 20 rows. Classes D, E, F, G and H in the next 20 rows and A, B and C in the final 20 rows.
[We have one rider in "L", one rider in "E", at first we thought we would have to ride separately; but, the club indicated we could ride either in the first 20 or second 20 rows. They helped us make the decision by suggesting we ride on the number of whomever paces the ride. Good advice].

* Prefers - the longer events 30+ miles; but, understand this has only been the case this season as our "E" rider's abilities are improving due largely to the FES series itself.

* Agrees - that limiting trophies in the higher age groups is fine. Although Dad and I get a real laugh when Mike points out his trophy is bigger than his grandpa's.
 

WomanRider

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#11
Smit-Dog said:
A rider 16+ could very well be a new rider, and need a support rider. Also, as BBarel stated, multiple generations like to ride together, so this should not be discouraged or disallowed.
I understand this and there could be a compromise to the problem. My daughter and I ride a very competitive class, Womens 16+. We are so competitive with each other we will not ride the same minute anymore. We have no where else to compete. We ride large cc bikes and can not ride a harescramble womans class in Michigan. We are not good enough to ride a regular enduro, yet. Even though my daughter is thinking about trying one for next year. As competitive as the womans class is I think there should be something in place for those of us who have competed for several years and have proved ourselves. We do not need support riders. If a new woman rider can ride without a support rider as happened 3 times this year why cannot the rest of the women who have proved they are good riders.
 

Smit-Dog

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#12
Just so I fully understand this, you don't want anyone in the Women's 16+ to be able to have a support rider, correct?

If so, why?
 

WomanRider

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#13
fatherandson said:
MAYBE all of the adult, male classes should be EXHIBITION ONLY????
Is there anyway to check the spill over on those adult classes to Sunday riders. Those who may have started a few times in the FES and then started riding Sunday. I know for my family that is what happened with my son this year. Those adult classes were for exhibition a few years ago, meaning there was not year end awards for them. I Think this is what should happen again.
 

WomanRider

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#14
Smit-Dog said:
Just so I fully understand this, you don't want anyone in the Women's 16+ to be able to have a support rider, correct?

If so, why?
Those who have proved themselves as good riders should not.
 

Smit-Dog

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#15
WomanRider said:
Those who have proved themselves as good riders should not.
Hard to make a rule based on criteria that is somewhat vague and subjective. Also, when proposing a rule that is specific to a particular class, you'd have to justify what is unique about that class to necessitate the rule. It is a women's class, and is 16+, but I don't think that alone is a basis for disallowing support riders just within that class.

If you feel competitor's support riders are blocking the trail, ride on row #1. If you feel they're helping with timekeeping, check crews are watching for this.

FWIW, there are classes other than Womens 16+ you and your daughter could compete in... how about each competing in your own age class?