First Bike, Major Beginner

[ChesapeakeRider]

So I was hoping you guys could help me out,

Thanks in Advance

1) My physical size: ~6'0", ~190
2) How physical / aggressive am I ? Pretty physical, moderately aggressive
3) Where do I plan to ride- Mostly woods, mud... trails, possibly some street
4) Do I have any riding experience? WAAAAAAAY back in the day i used to ride a mini bike
5) Do you think you will race ? No
6) Are you mechanically inclined and will you be doing your own bike work? Absolutely
7) Do I have a preference to a brand/ motor choice (2 or 4 stroke)?
Honda? 4 Stroke? But open to any suggestions
8) Do I have a dealer close by your home that you might use and what brand(s) does he carry? Think there are a couple shops around here, think they carry all but KTM
9) How much ($) do I plan to spend on a bike? Cheap as possible, but willing to do maybe up to like $1500 or $2000, but would be much happier spending less (wouldn't we all)
10) Do I live in California? No
11) My age? 17
12) anything else that you think would help form an opinion

I'm totally a beginner, love to go fast and I'm looking to buy within the next couple of months.

Also, My buddy may try to sell me his 2006 Honda Crf 150, garaged and cleaned after ever use and well maintained for like $1500, would that be a good deal/bike for me?

Thanks Again

 

[wake_rider]

At 6' the 150 will probably be a bit short for you. For your first bike a 125 smoker would be a good option, or an even better option would be a kdx200 or a ktm200exc. Both of those bikes would be great options for you...

 

[ChesapeakeRider]

At 6' the 150 will probably be a bit short for you. For your first bike a 125 smoker would be a good option, or an even better option would be a kdx200 or a ktm200exc. Both of those bikes would be great options for you...

If a 150 would be too short, why would a 125 be better? Sorry if thats a really stupid question.

And what years should I be looking for for the KDX and KTM?

 

[mathd]

you really dont want the crf150 at your size.
150 is a CRF F mean it is 4 stroke.
A 125 2 stroke will be taller and more power that the crf 150.

 

[wake_rider]

It's not a dumb question at all. The crf150 is not a full sized bike, as in the geometry of the frame is smaller than a full sized bike. A 125 2stroke is the same physical dimensions as a 250 2stroke. They are full sized bikes, the 125 just has a smaller motor. That being said, the 125 2 stroke has a higher power output than that crf150 which I think you will begin to outride fairly soon as I believe that technically it's still a minibike (like in the 85cc class).

You could buy a kdx that's over 15 years old and have a solid bike as long as it has been well maintained, but something in the 2000-2003 range would be well within your price range and would be a great starter bike. Hell, unless you are wanting to ride motocross, there really wouldn't be a reason to upgrade in any way if you bought a kdx. They are bulletproof bikes and are legends on the trails. A buddy of mine had one for about 5 years then upgraded to a ktm 300exc for a bit more hit, but that's because we also ride motocross. If we were strictly trail riders or cross country racers, he probably would have just stuck with the kdx.

 

[ChesapeakeRider]

It's not a dumb question at all. The crf150 is not a full sized bike, as in the geometry of the frame is smaller than a full sized bike. A 125 2stroke is the same physical dimensions as a 250 2stroke. They are full sized bikes, the 125 just has a smaller motor. That being said, the 125 2 stroke has a higher power output than that crf150 which I think you will begin to outride fairly soon as I believe that technically it's still a minibike (like in the 85cc class).

You could buy a kdx that's over 15 years old and have a solid bike as long as it has been well maintained, but something in the 2000-2003 range would be well within your price range and would be a great starter bike. Hell, unless you are wanting to ride motocross, there really wouldn't be a reason to upgrade in any way if you bought a kdx. They are bulletproof bikes and are legends on the trails. A buddy of mine had one for about 5 years then upgraded to a ktm 300exc for a bit more hit, but that's because we also ride motocross. If we were strictly trail riders or cross country racers, he probably would have just stuck with the kdx.

Thanks, Great Insight

So I found a couple:

This one is over my limit, but it's sick
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mcy/1568292395.html

KDX 200
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/1567130852.html

What about a 230CRF? Are they "small framed" too? Only ask, b/c its in my price range and is the closest of the three to me :)
http://smd.craigslist.org/mcy/1566784497.html

 

[wake_rider]

The crf230 is a full sized trail bike. Any of those bikes would be a great option, I would just look into the condition of them. If you could swing for that ktm, that would be my choice with the kdx being a close second. The only reason i would take the ktm over the kdx is personal preference for me. The kdx has a bit more of a mild hit which is awesome for the trails, but again I ride motocross as well and that ktm200exc would be more at home on the track than the kdx because it is a bit more capable on the track.

I would probably choose the crf last purely because it's a smaller bore 4stroke. It will be very tame, but you said that you're looking to be a bit more aggressive after you gain some experience and I think you will outgrow that bikes power before too long. It will have plenty of low end grunt, but whenever you begin to learn to wrap a bike out and really push the rpm's I think you would want to dump that bike for something with a little more hit...

 

[Patman]

At 6' a 230 will still be too small. I'm 5'10" and it's a fun bike but a bit short for anything more than play riding.

I've logged a bunch of miles up in that part of the world. In my experience you would be best off with something like the KDX or a Honda XR 250 or 400 depending on how concerned you are about weight & power & steering. My brother in law had a XR400 as well as a KDX. I found the XR4 top heavy, hard to turn with good power for the hills and mud of SW Pa. but overall not a great bike for the tight eastern trails. The KDX was a good bike IMO for the area, he bought it chap and honestly it was not the most reliable or powerful mount I've ever ridden. I find my XR250 to be a MUCH better solution across the board, granted it's modded but it's not a big dollar thing to get one setup perfectly for the east coast. A KTM200 would be a great option if you had more money to spend. Since you don't look at the XR250 & KDX for a solid fun bike.

 

[rmc_olderthandirt]

Keep in mind that dirt bikes come in several different flavors.

The "off road" or "trail" bikes are built for economy, low performance, gentle riding. They will have lower seat heights (32 to 34 inches), intended for shorter riders. Electric start is a common option, as is a kick stand. These bikes will be fairly heavy and have limited suspension travel. Change the oil often and these bikes will run a long time. Off road models are all four stroke engines. MSRP on an off road model will be $3k to $5k.

A "MX" bike is built for racing. The engines are high compression (needs premium gas), high performance designs. Even when maintained properly they need frequent top end rebuilds and similar maintenance. They are much lighter than the off road models, usually don't come with a kick stand (although you can add one). Seat height will be around 38 to 39 inches. MX bikes come in two stroke or four stroke models. MSRP on an MX bike will be $6K to $10K

"Enduro" bikes are high performance bikes closely related to the MX versions but have a few added feartures, such as headlights, electric start, etc. They will cost a bit more than the MX bikes and will weigh a bit more since they usually carry a battery. These are mainly four stroke bikes but there are a few two strokes.

A two stroke engine can produce about twice as much power for a given displacement as a four stroke. The problem is that the power is not smooth and tends to be very "peaky", which can be difficult to control, especially for a beginner. Four strokes have a lot more moving parts, are heavier, but have a much more consistent power delivery. In a MX bike, both two and four stokes require significant engine maintenance, but the two stroke is MUCH easier to work on.

The CRF150F is an off road model, sold brand new a year ago for around $3400. 34 inch seat height, weighs in at 236 pounds. Smaller wheels to get the seat height down (19' front, 16" rear) It is a bike I would get for my 5'3" wife. $1500 for a 2006 is a reasonable price, and it would be a good bike to ride for your first time but you will not want that bike for long.

a 125 two stroke, such as a Yamaha YZ-125 is a MX bike. It would easily produce twice the horsepower as the CRF150F and since it only weighs 208 pounds it will run circles around the CRF. Seat heigth is 39.3 inches.

The KTM is a great bike, but KTMs are generally priced a fair amount over what a Japanese bike would be. This is a two stroke bike, and what I would consider an "enduro" model. The bike in the ad appears to be in great condition.

The KDX 200: Can't tell much from the picture. This is a MX bike, but being a 200 instead of a 250 would be a bit of an underdog in a race. The price seems reasonable but it is hard to judge the condition from the picture. How long it has been since the top end was rebuilt could be a deciding factor.

A Honda CRF230F is a trail bike, but one of the larger ones. Seat height of 34 inches but at least has full size wheels (21" front, 18" rear). Weighs in at 249 pounds. A good bike to learn on but you will be looking to replace it in a year or so.

A 200/250 two stroke bike would suit your needs for a long time, as long as you didn't kill yourself learning to ride it. Two strokes do not do well "putting" or riding slowly. You can be asking for more power and then suddenly enter the "power band" and end up with a lot more than you wanted. Until shifting under adverse conditions becomes second nature you will stall it going up hills, which can be very frustrating not to mention potentially painful. The used two strokes tend to be cheaper; cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain.

When shopping for a bike I wouldn't go for "as cheap as possible". Buying a cheap neglected bike can cost you a lot more in the long run. A bike that has been ridden hard but maintained well can be much better deal. Replacing tires will cost you $150 to $200. Unless the seller can document a top end rebuild in the last 20 hours of use assume that you will need to do one soon ($200 on a two stroke if you do it yourself, AND you do it BEFORE it seizes). Ask the seller how you check the oil level, and if he has to think about it, be very concerned! (it often involves removing a bolt and seeing if oil seeps out)

How are you set for gear?
As a minimum you will need a helmet, goggles and boots. Do NOT ride without them.
I highly recommend a chest protector, gloves, and knee pads. Riding pants are much more durable in a fall than denim.

Sometimes you can find some decent used gear along wtih a bike. A new helmet, googles and boots would easily cost you $350 and up buying new so if you can get the seller to throw some gear in it could really help you out.

You also need a way to transport your bike.....

Rod

 

[wake_rider]

KDX's are not mx bikes at all. They are a purpose built 2stroke trail bike and are legendary as such.

 

[YZ__rider]

There is nothing MX about a KDX, that is for sure. For the trails, it is hard to beat a KDX or an XR. They are reliable and low maintenance.

 

[ChesapeakeRider]

Keep in mind that dirt bikes come in several different flavors.

The "off road" or "trail" bikes are built for economy, low performance, gentle riding. They will have lower seat heights (32 to 34 inches), intended for shorter riders. Electric start is a common option, as is a kick stand. These bikes will be fairly heavy and have limited suspension travel. Change the oil often and these bikes will run a long time. Off road models are all four stroke engines. MSRP on an off road model will be $3k to $5k.

A "MX" bike is built for racing. The engines are high compression (needs premium gas), high performance designs. Even when maintained properly they need frequent top end rebuilds and similar maintenance. They are much lighter than the off road models, usually don't come with a kick stand (although you can add one). Seat height will be around 38 to 39 inches. MX bikes come in two stroke or four stroke models. MSRP on an MX bike will be $6K to $10K

"Enduro" bikes are high performance bikes closely related to the MX versions but have a few added feartures, such as headlights, electric start, etc. They will cost a bit more than the MX bikes and will weigh a bit more since they usually carry a battery. These are mainly four stroke bikes but there are a few two strokes.

A two stroke engine can produce about twice as much power for a given displacement as a four stroke. The problem is that the power is not smooth and tends to be very "peaky", which can be difficult to control, especially for a beginner. Four strokes have a lot more moving parts, are heavier, but have a much more consistent power delivery. In a MX bike, both two and four stokes require significant engine maintenance, but the two stroke is MUCH easier to work on.

The CRF150F is an off road model, sold brand new a year ago for around $3400. 34 inch seat height, weighs in at 236 pounds. Smaller wheels to get the seat height down (19' front, 16" rear) It is a bike I would get for my 5'3" wife. $1500 for a 2006 is a reasonable price, and it would be a good bike to ride for your first time but you will not want that bike for long.

a 125 two stroke, such as a Yamaha YZ-125 is a MX bike. It would easily produce twice the horsepower as the CRF150F and since it only weighs 208 pounds it will run circles around the CRF. Seat heigth is 39.3 inches.

The KTM is a great bike, but KTMs are generally priced a fair amount over what a Japanese bike would be. This is a two stroke bike, and what I would consider an "enduro" model. The bike in the ad appears to be in great condition.

The KDX 200: Can't tell much from the picture. This is a MX bike, but being a 200 instead of a 250 would be a bit of an underdog in a race. The price seems reasonable but it is hard to judge the condition from the picture. How long it has been since the top end was rebuilt could be a deciding factor.

A Honda CRF230F is a trail bike, but one of the larger ones. Seat height of 34 inches but at least has full size wheels (21" front, 18" rear). Weighs in at 249 pounds. A good bike to learn on but you will be looking to replace it in a year or so.

A 200/250 two stroke bike would suit your needs for a long time, as long as you didn't kill yourself learning to ride it. Two strokes do not do well "putting" or riding slowly. You can be asking for more power and then suddenly enter the "power band" and end up with a lot more than you wanted. Until shifting under adverse conditions becomes second nature you will stall it going up hills, which can be very frustrating not to mention potentially painful. The used two strokes tend to be cheaper; cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain.

When shopping for a bike I wouldn't go for "as cheap as possible". Buying a cheap neglected bike can cost you a lot more in the long run. A bike that has been ridden hard but maintained well can be much better deal. Replacing tires will cost you $150 to $200. Unless the seller can document a top end rebuild in the last 20 hours of use assume that you will need to do one soon ($200 on a two stroke if you do it yourself, AND you do it BEFORE it seizes). Ask the seller how you check the oil level, and if he has to think about it, be very concerned! (it often involves removing a bolt and seeing if oil seeps out)

How are you set for gear?
As a minimum you will need a helmet, goggles and boots. Do NOT ride without them.
I highly recommend a chest protector, gloves, and knee pads. Riding pants are much more durable in a fall than denim.

Sometimes you can find some decent used gear along wtih a bike. A new helmet, googles and boots would easily cost you $350 and up buying new so if you can get the seller to throw some gear in it could really help you out.

You also need a way to transport your bike.....

Rod

That was a heck of a response, Thanks a lot, very very informative.

And gear I have nothing so far, I'll look for that too thanks, I almost forgot about it.

What do you guys think of this Yamaha YZ 125:
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcy/1571872174.html

 

[wake_rider]

That was a heck of a response, Thanks a lot, very very informative.

And gear I have nothing so far, I'll look for that too thanks, I almost forgot about it.

What do you guys think of this Yamaha YZ 125:
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcy/1571872174.html

That looks very clean from the picture, so from that I'd say it's a good buy. Ultimately, you need to see it in person to get a good feel for it. If you have any friends that are WELL educated in dirtbikes and dirtbike mechanics, it would be a great idea to ask them to come along so they know what problem areas to look at while checking the bike out. Key spots to look for:

-The shape of the linkage/swingarm/shock pivot bearings.
-Shape of the wheel bearings and head tube bearings (no slop)
-How fresh the top end is & when was the last bottom end rebuild
-What shape the chain and sprockets are in
-No cracked or badly bent radiators
-Shape of the knobbies
-Not a severely bent subframe or any stress cracks in the frame
-Rear shock and fork seal conditions.

Most guys that are well familiarized with dirtbikes will know what to look for and how to diagnose these problems. With the price that guy is asking you will want to make sure it's in pretty good shape with only minor jobs to do. There will always be maintenance jobs to do with any dirtbike unless it's brand new, but you will want to make sure that these common jobs weren't neglected. It can become a bit of a money pit if you have to take care of them all at once and then repair parts that are damaged due only to poor maintenance.

 

[YZ__rider]

If he is doing all his maintenance, as stated, he should know about all of the signs of a worn out bike.

A 125 MX bike lacks the low end power to be an effective trail bike. They have very peaky power. They also have close range gearing which is not ideal. A KDX or XR would be much better for trail riding.